So few kids

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

My guess is there are probably a lot of factors at play, including time of year, parents potentially being uncomfortable flying/traveling with unvaccinated kiddos, Genie+/LL making Disney vacation quite a bit more costly for families (those fees add up quickly), and hesitancy to drop a bunch of cash on an expensive vacation when WDW offerings (especially character meets/dining/no BBB) are still limited. A Disney vacation is expensive in general, but when you've got a family of 4 or more, it's obviously more so. And for most people, if you're going to be shelling out that much money, you're not wanting to pay full price for a watered down version.

 

[cccory]

We have always been going to Disney with kids (since 1993), but we are thinking about taking a trip to Disney, just the 2 of us, for the very first time.

 

[Carol_]

Genie+, long lines, and huge crowds had us cutting our MK and HS days short and our AK day completely off. We rode one ride in MK. We have severely underused APs that will be lost $$ this year as DH wants to try Universal next trip.
A large part of this was our going to the Marathon weekend expo, and spending a lot of time in the CCV cabins… so still a great trip, just a lot less time in the parks.

 

[LSUmiss]

Target demographics have moved from families to young urban professionals with lots of disposable income.

Yep that’s exactly what it is. Ppl often complain about the price for families, but for a working individual, the prices aren’t that bad. It’s just unfortunate b/c Walt built DLR as a place he could go with his daughters b/c there weren’t many places for families. And now we are back to that. Not b/c of the price, but more & more that parks are set up to accommodate adults & not ppl with young kids.

 

[LSUmiss]

My wife and I tried to do our part, took our youngest grandchild (4 years old) to WDW Jan 17th to 23rd. We had a ball. He absolutely loves the Slinky Dog ride at Hollywood studios. Loved the interaction with Chip and Dale at the Harvest Rest in Epcot, and with Donald (his favorite) at Tusker House in Animal Kingdom. Everytime I grumble about the crazy increases of the WDW experience, seeing one of my grandkids total enjoyment reminds me why we continue to go.

DS (3.5) loves slinky dog too!

 

[Haley R]

There were tons of kids at Epcot yesterday and MK today.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Yep that’s exactly what it is. Ppl often complain about the price for families, but for a working individual, the prices aren’t that bad. It’s just unfortunate b/c Walt built DLR as a place he could go with his daughters b/c there weren’t many places for families. And now we are back to that. Not b/c of the price, but more & more that parks are set up to accommodate adults & not ppl with young kids.

honestly its not that big of a deal to pay $15 for Genie plus, but when you multiply it by 4, an additional $60 per day starts to add up pretty quickly, and that doesnt include the additional fees for lighting lane. From a marketing stand point, its easy to say "only $15", that multiplier hurts though.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yep that’s exactly what it is. Ppl often complain about the price for families, but for a working individual, the prices aren’t that bad. It’s just unfortunate b/c Walt built DLR as a place he could go with his daughters b/c there weren’t many places for families. And now we are back to that. Not b/c of the price, but more & more that parks are set up to accommodate adults & not ppl with young kids.

honestly its not that big of a deal to pay $15 for Genie plus, but when you multiply it by 4, an additional $60 per day starts to add up pretty quickly, and that doesnt include the additional fees for lighting lane. From a marketing stand point, its easy to say "only $15", that multiplier hurts though.

I'll actually go further. I remember talking about this with respects to MP at DLR back in 2019. People often talk about adding up for families but that will always depend on each individual family and how it isn't really that big of a deal for small groups. I remember talking about how my step-father-in-law wouldn't bat an eye paying for MP (and well in this context Genie+) for all of us he has zero issues with it, if it makes his wife happy, if he gets to see his family happy he just doesn't care. For my husband and I MP was $15 PP/Per Day. We went 6 days total in 2019 with 5 out of the 6 with MP. That's $150 total. Yeah it was just my husband and I, no we're not a family of four but for us that wasn't something to not even bat an eye at. It did add up even though it was just two of us. No it didn't break the bank either for us but still it felt the pinch.

So generally when this topic comes up people may want to understand that for some individuals it's not a big deal, for some families it's not a big deal, but flip side for some individuals it is a big deal and for some families it is a big deal. Instead of discussing it like "it adds up for a family" because not all families care about that.

**Note I'm not nitpicking your comments it's just one that people say all the time

 

[sponica]

It's been a while since I've been to Disney this time of year, but when we went, there wasn't a ton of kids and most of them were under 5 or in the K-3rd age range. Regionally, there's not a ton of people where I live traveling with kids under 5 and I think parents are less inclined to pull kids who haven't really had stable school years since 2018-2019. Our schools weren't full time in person until Fall 2021.

Based on my facebook timeline everyone with kids is going this year during a february or april break.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I'll actually go further. I remember talking about this with respects to MP at DLR back in 2019. People often talk about adding up for families but that will always depend on each individual family and how it isn't really that big of a deal for small groups. I remember talking about how my step-father-in-law wouldn't bat an eye paying for MP (and well in this context Genie+) for all of us he has zero issues with it, if it makes his wife happy, if he gets to see his family happy he just doesn't care. For my husband and I MP was $15 PP/Per Day. We went 6 days total in 2019 with 5 out of the 6 with MP. That's $150 total. Yeah it was just my husband and I, no we're not a family of four but for us that wasn't something to not even bat an eye at. It did add up even though it was just two of us. No it didn't break the bank either for us but still it felt the pinch.

So generally when this topic comes up people may want to understand that for some individuals it's not a big deal, for some families it's not a big deal, but flip side for some individuals it is a big deal and for some families it is a big deal. Instead of discussing it like "it adds up for a family" because not all families care about that.

**Note I'm not nitpicking your comments it's just one that people say all the time

there's always people that dont bat an eye on these things, and honestly, its why we're at where we are.

I used to listen to a podcast about dads that loved disney, there was one podcast where one went on a non disney cruise, the cruise included a night at their preferred hotel the night before departure. He stated he went to sit on a chair by the pool and a staff member came up and told him he had to pay for it. He went off on a tangent about having to pay for every little thing.

Then a few episodes later, they were discussing some of the options that disney was adding and said..."well, you gotta pay to play the game".

One of the things i used to like about Disney, is that they didnt me much of a chance of saying "no" to my kids when they asked for something. We used to get the DDP, so basically all the snacks they want. I say no a lot thoughout the year, but vacation is somewhere that i like to say yes, because of the smiles it puts on the kids faces.

Now with charging me for every little thing, its easier for me to say no, and i hate that.

yes, we'll probably buy Genie + and Lighting Lane, but instead of going every year, we'll go every other year or every three years.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

there's always people that dont bat an eye on these things, and honestly, its why we're at where we are.

I used to listen to a podcast about dads that loved disney, there was one podcast where one went on a non disney cruise, the cruise included a night at their preferred hotel the night before departure. He stated he went to sit on a chair by the pool and a staff member came up and told him he had to pay for it. He went off on a tangent about having to pay for every little thing.

Then a few episodes later, they were discussing some of the options that disney was adding and said..."well, you gotta pay to play the game".

One of the things i used to like about Disney, is that they didnt me much of a chance of saying "no" to my kids when they asked for something. We used to get the DDP, so basically all the snacks they want. I say no a lot thoughout the year, but vacation is somewhere that i like to say yes, because of the smiles it puts on the kids faces.

Now with charging me for every little thing, its easier for me to say no, and i hate that.

yes, we'll probably buy Genie + and Lighting Lane, but instead of going every year, we'll go every other year or every three years.

I was sorta the minority but I disliked paying for MP at DLR and did not under any circumstances want it (or a version like it) at WDW like sooooo many other people wanted (a lot of people were clamoring for MP to be at WDW). Most of my issues were because of how Disney prioritized so much the FP lane that it made you feel like you had to purchase MP. It's one of the reasons I'm watching how Genie+ is playing out.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I was sorta the minority but I disliked paying for MP at DLR and did not under any circumstances want it (or a version like it) at WDW like sooooo many other people wanted (a lot of people were clamoring for MP to be at WDW). Most of my issues were because of how Disney prioritized so much the FP lane that it made you feel like you had to purchase MP. It's one of the reasons I'm watching how Genie+ is playing out.

I think fast passes are great, but never really got on board with how WDW did fast past plus, i've always thought a mixture of the old fast pass and fast pass plus was the way to go.
disney also gave out way too many fast passes.

I've stood at the merge point for 20 minutes while they were letting people with fastpasses go, and on the flip side of that, i stood in the fast pass like for 30 minutes for space ship earth before.

 

[LSUmiss]

there's always people that dont bat an eye on these things, and honestly, its why we're at where we are.

I used to listen to a podcast about dads that loved disney, there was one podcast where one went on a non disney cruise, the cruise included a night at their preferred hotel the night before departure. He stated he went to sit on a chair by the pool and a staff member came up and told him he had to pay for it. He went off on a tangent about having to pay for every little thing.

Then a few episodes later, they were discussing some of the options that disney was adding and said..."well, you gotta pay to play the game".

One of the things i used to like about Disney, is that they didnt me much of a chance of saying "no" to my kids when they asked for something. We used to get the DDP, so basically all the snacks they want. I say no a lot thoughout the year, but vacation is somewhere that i like to say yes, because of the smiles it puts on the kids faces.

Now with charging me for every little thing, its easier for me to say no, and i hate that.

yes, we'll probably buy Genie + and Lighting Lane, but instead of going every year, we'll go every other year or every three years.

Exactly. And for groups of young adults traveling together but paying individually $15 is nothing. So this causes 2 problems for families…more expense and longer lines.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Exactly. And for groups of young adults traveling together but paying individually $15 is nothing. So this causes 2 problems for families…more expense and longer lines.

You're putting people in categories assuming they have no issues. At least with the other poster they said there will always be people which I totally agree with, people in all sorts of traveling groups that do or don't have issues. Young adults traveling together don't mean $15 is nothing to them.

Additional charges cause problems for everyone, not just families. I know though by past comments you've been stuck on how it's directly impacted you and your toddler (I forget the age your child is now) but it's a problem for others too. Maybe don't have such a narrow field of who is impacted

 

[LSUmiss]

You're putting people in categories assuming they have no issues. At least with the other poster they said there will always be people which I totally agree with, people in all sorts of traveling groups that do or don't have issues. Young adults traveling together don't mean $15 is nothing to them.

Additional charges cause problems for everyone, not just families. I know though by past comments you've been stuck on how it's directly impacted you and your toddler (I forget the age your child is now) but it's a problem for others too. Maybe don't have such a narrow field of who is impacted

This thread is about why there are fewer kids. Likely it’s related to the increase costs & increased inconveniences for ppl with young children. A pp mentioned that Disney’s target demographic has changed. And, as someone who is in the parks every other month, I can visually see that this seems to be true. And, while it may impact everyone, an extra $15/day is less likely to impact a young, childless, working professional with a lot of disposable income. That’s who the pp mentioned. I can begrudgingly afford the $15/person/per day. For us, the complaint is that it’s less efficient than fast pass especially with little kids. So, again, this tells me that I am not the customer Disney is really interested in. And, of course, I am mostly concerned about how it impacts my family. I don’t work for Disney so why would I care about the impacts to other paying customers? Although, it’s fine for us b/c we do go so often & have APs. But helping friends with little kids plan a trip, you start to realize how cumbersome & ridiculous it has gotten to be for families.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This thread is about why there are fewer kids. Likely it’s related to the increase costs & increased inconveniences for ppl with young children. A pp mentioned that Disney’s target demographic has changed. And, as someone who is in the parks every other month, I can visually see that this seems to be true. And, while it may impact everyone, an extra $15/day is less likely to impact a young, childless, working professional with a lot of disposable income. That’s who the pp mentioned. I can begrudgingly afford the $15/person/per day. For us, the complaint is that it’s less efficient than fast pass especially with little kids. So, again, this tells me that I am not the customer Disney is really interested in. And, of course, I am mostly concerned about how it impacts my family. I don’t work for Disney so why would I care about the impacts to other paying customers? Although, it’s fine for us b/c we do go so often & have APs. But helping friends with little kids plan a trip, you start to realize how cumbersome & ridiculous it has gotten to be for families.

What I was responding to is your generalization. You may have an issue with paying, other families simply don't. Conversely younger individuals who go to Disney may have an issue with paying or they may not. It's just the nature of it but having added on charges affects everyone.

Throughout I know you've not been happy with Disney in years. I remember you talking about the complaints of FP+ with pre-booking attractions with all the planning and even then you said it was hard for young families to go to Disney.

Really the point was just that it affects a lot of people. The reason why there are so few kids right now could not be explained by just your viewpoint on how Disney isn't doing things for young families, you've already been talking about that for years anyways. Genie+ is something that has been gaining negative attention but in itself is not an sole reason why someone would be in the parks in January wondering where all the kids were. We are in a pandemic with a highly transmittable variant that is affecting young kids much more than prior variants (and that's as far as I'll go on that), we did just get off of a school break, there have been inclement weather (didn't the east coast just get a nor'easter?), there's been high disruption for a lot of people in general even with disposable income which if you actually look at it didn't families get more stimulus money over time? I don't know that there is a single one answer but some people report "there's a bunch of kids" some didn't.

In talks of the conversation when you say "to young adults it's nothing" you're generalizing something that which is inaccurate. Families just like you it's nothing to them too but you don't include "families with young kids it's nothing" because to your family it is a big deal, same as it can be to others in all groups of people who would like to go to Disney but have some reason why it's not really all that desirable. At least to me I'll wholeheartedly agree that Disney is targeting those with more income they don't have a problem with parting with, that's something that's been years coming, and who has more income is not one demographic but comprises of people in all sorts of demographics. But that does not mean it cuts the legs off of families going in the middle (or whatever stage we're in right now) of the pandemic to WDW.

 

[PaladinButters]

There were tons of kids at Epcot yesterday and MK today.

We did parks all last week. Tons of kids, tons of strollers, (tons of people in general) and a noticeable increase in the amount of bubbles flying around (which is a little magical when you don't immediately see where they are coming from) so probably a bunch of kids with bubble wands I didn't even see. Or childless millennials with bubble wands I guess. Magical either way.

 

[starlite_]

In talks of the conversation when you say "to young adults it's nothing" you're generalizing something that which is inaccurate. Families just like you it's nothing to them too but you don't include "families with young kids it's nothing" because to your family it is a big deal, same as it can be to others in all groups of people who would like to go to Disney but have some reason why it's not really all that desirable. At least to me I'll wholeheartedly agree that Disney is targeting those with more income they don't have a problem with parting with, that's something that's been years coming, and who has more income is not one demographic but comprises of people in all sorts of demographics. But that does not mean it cuts the legs off of families going in the middle (or whatever stage we're in right now) of the pandemic to WDW.

100% agree. Just because I, as a young adult, can pay the extra $15 like it's nothing doesn't mean that to my best friend that makes half my income it is nothing.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

But helping friends with little kids plan a trip, you start to realize how cumbersome & ridiculous it has gotten to be for families.

THIS. We have an upcoming trip and while this isn't our first rodeo with littles, I feel like this is an entirely different ballgame, and much more complicated. I used to love planning - it was exciting and fun. Now I'm entirely overwhelmed. I liked the "insurance" that fastpass+ provided, knowing that we would be able to get on our favorite lines without putting the little ones through long waits or traipsing back and forth a hot park a million times. I liked doing my planning ahead of time so that I could be fully present with my family while actually on vacation. I liked knowing that we had the flexibility to roll with the punches that traveling with young kinds inevitably brings. I don't even mind paying the extra fees, but it just doesn't seem like this is even actually going to work all that well for my family. I am keeping an open mind and going in with a positive attitude, but if we didn't have this trip planned and paid for already, I'm not sure I'd be choosing Disney for our vacation this year.

 

[LSUmiss]

Wo

What I was responding to is your generalization. You may have an issue with paying, other families simply don't. Conversely younger individuals who go to Disney may have an issue with paying or they may not. It's just the nature of it but having added on charges affects everyone.

Throughout I know you've not been happy with Disney in years. I remember you talking about the complaints of FP+ with pre-booking attractions with all the planning and even then you said it was hard for young families to go to Disney.

Really the point was just that it affects a lot of people. The reason why there are so few kids right now could not be explained by just your viewpoint on how Disney isn't doing things for young families, you've already been talking about that for years anyways. Genie+ is something that has been gaining negative attention but in itself is not an sole reason why someone would be in the parks in January wondering where all the kids were. We are in a pandemic with a highly transmittable variant that is affecting young kids much more than prior variants (and that's as far as I'll go on that), we did just get off of a school break, there have been inclement weather (didn't the east coast just get a nor'easter?), there's been high disruption for a lot of people in general even with disposable income which if you actually look at it didn't families get more stimulus money over time? I don't know that there is a single one answer but some people report "there's a bunch of kids" some didn't.

In talks of the conversation when you say "to young adults it's nothing" you're generalizing something that which is inaccurate. Families just like you it's nothing to them too but you don't include "families with young kids it's nothing" because to your family it is a big deal, same as it can be to others in all groups of people who would like to go to Disney but have some reason why it's not really all that desirable. At least to me I'll wholeheartedly agree that Disney is targeting those with more income they don't have a problem with parting with, that's something that's been years coming, and who has more income is not one demographic but comprises of people in all sorts of demographics. But that does not mean it cuts the legs off of families going in the middle (or whatever stage we're in right now) of the pandemic to WDW.

Yes, it’s likely there are many contributing factors. However, you are speaking hypothetically, I am talking about my experience. There has been a RECENT noticeable absence of families with children in the past month. I saw it with my own eyes & DH even commented while we were there. Then I see a thread about it so it’s obviously a change others have noticed too. I have been to wdw 9 times since the start of the pandemic so this is a new change even considering the “highly contagious variants” & the pandemic.
And the pp mentioned, young ppl with a lot of DISPOSABLE income…meaning extra $$$, so it is likely that $15 extra a day doesn’t impact them the same way. Ftr, I am not complaining about the price. It really doesn’t impact us much. My complaint is & has been about how cumbersome it has become to go with young children which speaks to us no longer being Disney’s target demographic which is unfortunate since Walt designed DLR for his family with young children. And unless you have had that experience, you really can’t know how obnoxious Disney has made things. We make it work b/c we go so frequently. But, for ppl going once a year or less often, it’s quite ridiculous now.