So Disapointed in Kindergarten

[tmarquez]

Sorry if my post made you feel this way, it wasn't meant to. This is my only child and really don't have any friends with school age kids so I came here to see what other peoples experiences were.

I don't think other kids are holding DD back. I have no idea where the other kids are and what they know or don't know.

Selfishly, my concern is simply for DD and her telling me she is bored sitting in a class for 7 hours coloring. I'm sure you would feel the same way if your child came home each day complaining that they are bored at school.

I guess its in the wording. Always around this time of year these posts seem to start to pop up alot. I can understand someone coming for help on how to challenge their quick and eager learner. I can understand how someone would ask others for help when they approach the school and are unhappy with the schools response.

But when people just come out and say they cant believe how easy K is or how disappointed they are that the kids arent learning more, I do get a bit defensive. I know kids learn at different rates but it seems many possibly gifted childrens parents dont. I feel they look down on all those kids less academically smart than their child for holding the curriculum back.

And please do not generalize that kids who dont know all their ABC's etc by the time they start K must have parents who didnt send them to preschool or dont have parents who encourage learning. Theres the argument out there that preschool is not necessary. Kids all learn at their own pace. Theres kids out there where you can spend every waking hour teaching them and they just dont learn as quickly. With alot of help my son has caught up to his peers. We are lucky.

Gifted kids are the way they way because thats simply how their brains are wired. Same goes for those kids who struggle. Dont assume its "bad" parenting, their brains just may be different than your childs.

 

[rt2dz]

OK, I’ve been catching up on the replies. Let me just agree that social aspects are EXTREMELY important. There have been numerous studies done that kids who don’t learn academics until later will catch up and can do just as well, or better, in college and beyond. Kids, who don’t learn those ever so important social skills from birth to ~age 8 (third grade-ish), generally never catch up and struggle with people and every day aspects for the rest of their lives. I see it in one of my sisters’ kids. That is why I chose a social based preschool. Of course, I still have children that know quite a bit—social based does not mean lacks all academic education. See my previous reply.

Being ahead also does not mean gifted. And most gifted, truly gifted, children are only gifted in one or two areas. Children who are ahead of the curve everywhere are generally very bright, but not gifted. And gifted or not, does not equal success in school and especially beyond. My brother is gifted, but not well rounded and struggles in his everyday life. He is choosing to be as much as a professional student as possible in order to stay where comfortable, but he is learning he now needs to, um, get a job! A real job. He’s thinking teaching college.

I also agree that you need to wait awhile to see if this is a real problem or a temporary issue. I’d watch the teacher closely. DS7 first K teacher was not a teacher that would even try to meet any child’s needs and it puts me on guard with every teacher here on out. I would not wait unit Thanksgiving. That is when DS7 switched to a wonderful beyond any measure teacher who I will be forever grateful to, and it was way too late. I’d give it a good 4-6 weeks before making a decision on the teacher. And volunteer in the classroom. I do every year and I think that is where I learn the most about my kids’ teachers.

Supplementing at home isn’t the best situation. Why are they at school then? For seven hours of sitting? What is the point in that? Kids should be separated into classes by abilities in K. At our school they do testing around Christmas of 2nd grade for GT class starting in 3rd. That’s three years of boredom. You can lose a child in that time. It’s my opinion that while kids might not always love school, if they hate school in K-3, they will never love school. It’s important for school to be educational and fun.

 

[rt2dz]

My son was definitely a kid and we didn't force him to read or do math. I discovered he could read when we were stopped at a red light and he read the sign on the side of the road. No parking from here to corner. I was shocked as he was barely 4 years old. So I started testing him. What does that say etc etc.
With math again he just got it. He would count by 6's, 7's, and 8's in the back seat of the car. I think he did it to keep his mind occupied in the car.

Just because some kids can read before Kindergarten doesn't mean their parents lock them in a room all day and drill them.

I totally understand this! I am NOT a teacher. I haven't a clue on how to teach a child. I went to pay the preschool bill a couple of weeks ago. DS2 saw a piece of paper sitting there, plain white, with the word "TOYS" written on it. He pointed to it and said, while putting his body into those letters, "T" and made the sound. He did it with every letter, expecting trying to make an "S" with his body. When he was done he said "Toys". This kid barely even speaks, but he's starting to. Apparently though, he can read.

 

[tonilea]

I'm just wondering if any of these kids that are so far ahead entering kindergarten were "red-shirted" and actually started a year later than they were scheduled to? Just curious.

Of course, I can't speak for anyone else, but my DS started reading at three. At 4y2m, he can read at least as well, if not better than my niece who is starting the 1st grade. He has never attended preschool or daycare and we didn't teach him to read. He just reads! It amazes me. I am trying to teach him to write, though. It frustrates him that he can read, but not write.

We have a dear friend who has been a teacher for at least 30 years, she says that reading is a talent, like music. You can teach the notes, but not everyone can make music.

Like many of the other posters, I worry about sending DS to public school. I don't try to claim he is gifted, but I want to provide him with the best opportunities I can. I am worried he will be a real PITA if he is bored.

 

[Alysa]

Our system is a little different. All kids in Canada start when they are four. DD could read and was doing grade 1 math books when she started school. Even though DD is at an academicaly advanced school, kindergarten is all about social development here. When she finishes her work pages twice as fast as some of the others she is asked to go read until they finish. We are okay with this though because we know that peer relationship and how kids interact can affect their entire educational career. Sure she is sometimes bored but she still loves school and loves doing workbooks and reading stories at home. Most important to us is that she shows a high level of empathy, she shares well and is friends with almost every child in the class. Having been a class parent, I think the best thing you can do is provide the enrichment your daughter needs at home and support your child's teacher in every way, including volunteering if you can. I think most kindergarten teachers are fast tracking their way to heaven! Your daughter will be great - no worries!

 

[belle&beast]

I was in the OP's situation last school year. DD started kindergarten and came home and said, "Mom, will you please tell Mrs. B that I can read! I am tired of doing baby work!" She is my oldest, I am a speech pathologist in a preschool, but I do have elementary experience- at her school which is why we chose to send her there.

I was miffed for awhile until I began to volunteer in the classroom. WOW Kindergarten is full of differing abilities! And this is a private school where everyone had attended a preschool program. I spoke with the teacher and she provided enrichment seat work and once the reading program began, everything was fine. My DD is still ahead of some children, but I do not think she is gifted, just very eager to learn.

 

[mommyof2princesses]

. Let me just agree that social aspects are EXTREMELY important. There have been numerous studies done that kids who don’t learn academics until later will catch up and can do just as well, or better, in college and beyond.

Being ahead also does not mean gifted. And most gifted, truly gifted, children are only gifted in one or two areas. Children who are ahead of the curve everywhere are generally very bright, but not gifted. And gifted or not, does not equal success in school and especially beyond. My brother is gifted, but not well rounded and struggles in his everyday life. He is choosing to be as much as a professional student as possible in order to stay where comfortable, but he is learning he now needs to, um, get a job! A real job. He’s thinking teaching college.

I am not sure I totall agree with the first statement. Most kids will catch up, but not all. And some kids will always be ahead. about 2% of the population will always be way ahead, and about 2% will always be way behind. The whole bell curve theory.

I do agree that gifted kids usually have 1 or 2 areas they are truly gifted in. But they usually excel in many areas too. My dd has been tested and is gifted. Her strengths are reading, science, art. She also excels at math, history, research, music. When I taught I had many bright children, but you can just tell when a child is gifted. They just have this way about them! I don't know exactly what it is.

As for social aspects, I am not sure that school is a great example of learning social skills. Really, by third grade they are considered behavior problems if they are too social! A better example of social skill learning would be through extracurricular activities, having good role models of proper social behavior and just everyday normal activities...like eating in a restaurant, going to a play or shopping in the grocery store!

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Aristomommy]

I guess its in the wording. Always around this time of year these posts seem to start to pop up alot. I can understand someone coming for help on how to challenge their quick and eager learner. I can understand how someone would ask others for help when they approach the school and are unhappy with the schools response.

But when people just come out and say they cant believe how easy K is or how disappointed they are that the kids arent learning more, I do get a bit defensive. I know kids learn at different rates but it seems many possibly gifted childrens parents dont. I feel they look down on all those kids less academically smart than their child for holding the curriculum back.

And please do not generalize that kids who dont know all their ABC's etc by the time they start K must have parents who didnt send them to preschool or dont have parents who encourage learning. Theres the argument out there that preschool is not necessary. Kids all learn at their own pace. Theres kids out there where you can spend every waking hour teaching them and they just dont learn as quickly. With alot of help my son has caught up to his peers. We are lucky.

Gifted kids are the way they way because thats simply how their brains are wired. Same goes for those kids who struggle. Dont assume its "bad" parenting, their brains just may be different than your childs.

This is the reason why I explained how I have two children who were parented the exact same way and one is labeled "gifted" and one is in Early Intervention. Different births and different brain development were the reason, not my "superior parenting skills", LOL. I can't speak for the OP, but I personally never felt that our school should stop teaching other kids and focus on my advanced DD. All I asked for was that if she could handle more difficult material, then let her. It was never time away from someone else. DDs brain is wired to learn at a faster pace and I can't take credit for it. There are times I wish she would develop more typically, because she has had challenges at school. Teasing, bullying and not relating to many of her peers are some to mention. She prefers to socialize with much older kids, but I fear the kind of influence it would be.

We finally changed schools and this year DD9 is going to 5th with 7th grade math and LA. DS3 will be in a great Early Intervention program. I am proud of both of them and would be offended if anyone looked down on them, so I would never look down on another child for learning readiness or pace.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

I had the same situation with my DS in kindergarten. He could read at age 3. I never taught him. He suprised me one day when he just started reading all on his own. His birthday was in December, so he couldn't start school at age 4. I wish someone had told me he could go straight to 1st grade at age 5. I put him in kindergarten where he was bored all year. The teacher said she would have a reading program for the advanced readers. It never happened. Each time I asked about it she said they needed a volunteer, and didn't have one. So in 1st grade the teacher said we group them by ability for reading. As it turned out they still had the same material to cover in each group. My son was reading harry potter at home and at school he was studying words like "he, she, we." Very boring. As it happened he was ahead in all areas in his class. We decided to grade skip him from 1st to 3rd this year. The teacher was very supportive. The problem with schools is they group kids by age, not ability. The reason most kids catch up by third grade is probably because the advanced learners aren't given the opportunity to further their education. They have no challenges. Don't let your child sit bored in a classroom. I only wish I didn't wait 2 years to grade skip my child. I should have put him straight into 1st grade.

 

[SmallWorld71]

I only read a few responses since I didn't want to bias my answer so please forgive me if I am really repetitive.

I teach 1st grade (and also have 3 kids, including 2 who were reading before they entered K.)
Anyway, the beginning of K and 1st grade are not about academics, they are about establishing routines. It's been proven time and time again that the best learning can only occur in classrooms where the daily routines are well established (getting materials, putting away materials, bathroom procedures, quiet work time, free play time etc...). I am sure some of my parents are horrified at the very beginning of the year when they see some of the really easy papers that come home. Trust me, this is not my curriculum! It is only by establishing these routines with EVERY child in the class, am I able to then differentiate instruction for all my students. If they already had reading groups in your daughter's K class after a week and a half, then I would be concerned because it would seem they are much more concerned with looking good than with what is best for the kids.

Now, all that said, I have no idea about the curriculum at your child's school. I am guessing you have an open house coming up soon? I would use that opportunity to find out about the curriculum and how it meets the needs of all students. Once routines are established in the classroom, if you find your child's needs are not being met, then certainly schedule a conference with the teacher.

 

[mommyof2princesses]

I have to toatlly agree with the pp about the first few weeks being about routine. When I taught 4th grade, I did a lot of practicing routine. For at least a week we learned how to come into the classroom, how to unpack, get started, walking in line. I did start major academics within the first week, but I taught older kids. I never did that much review because I did a lot of spiraling of my work anyway. I would say the first few days where just figuring the students out and learning how they learn and work. Give it time. I would guess the younger grades would need much more than a week to learn what the routine is like!

 

[rt2dz]

I am not sure I totall agree with the first statement. Most kids will catch up, but not all. And some kids will always be ahead. about 2% of the population will always be way ahead, and about 2% will always be way behind. The whole bell curve theory.

I do agree that gifted kids usually have 1 or 2 areas they are truly gifted in. But they usually excel in many areas too. My dd has been tested and is gifted. Her strengths are reading, science, art. She also excels at math, history, research, music. When I taught I had many bright children, but you can just tell when a child is gifted. They just have this way about them! I don't know exactly what it is.

As for social aspects, I am not sure that school is a great example of learning social skills. Really, by third grade they are considered behavior problems if they are too social! A better example of social skill learning would be through extracurricular activities, having good role models of proper social behavior and just everyday normal activities...like eating in a restaurant, going to a play or shopping in the grocery store!

Just my 2 cents.

Sorry. I forget on message boards that sometimes people can read things too literally from lack of tone. No, the first comment is not meant to be 100% either way. It is a generalization that several studies support to say that early reading and other academic success ALONE…

Same for the gifted child. Yes, I know there is something different about gifted people. My dad’s one. My brother’s one. Three of my eight nieces are gifted. My oldest son is gifted. Again, it’s a generalization that it is USUALLY only one or two areas that they are GIFTED in. Just like non-gifted children they, of course, can be bright in other areas and ahead of the curve.

Social skills include way more than socializing. I had a friend whose son was recommended that he not go on to K, with his late summer birthday because he had weak social skills. She was very upset with the pre-k teacher. Now, we could all see what the teacher was talking about and tried to explain it to her. All she kept saying is he is very social, makes friends easily. We kept saying it is about understanding behavior, being able to sit still, being able to not talk out of turn, etc, etc. She didn’t get it. She sent her son. The K teacher kept telling her he was struggling because he lacked social skills. She still didn’t understand/hear it. She sent him on to first. I don’t exactly what his first grade teacher said, but she finally got through to her that her son would not go because of his lack of social skills and it had nothing to do with being able to relate to other kids. That is only one of many, many social skills. Preschool and Kindergarten are *supposed* to have a high emphasis on social skills—learning through social aspects of life. And of course I agree that school isn’t the only place to learn social skills, but they generally aren’t with their peers at the grocery store or eating in a restaurant and being around peers is extremely important.

 

[Cruz91]

I didn't read all the posts, but I can feel the OP's pain. First and foremost I will say my wife (a former primary ed teacher turned SAHM) firmly believe it is 99% the teacher and 1% the school / school district. That is, there are great teachers (and some would argue more dedicated) teachers in bad districts and vice versa.

However... We were in same situation with DD last year. She had been reading a year before starting school (again, not that she was exceptionally gifted - but DW was great at working with DD, plus she went to a great preschool). When she got to school, same deal as OP - just coloring and high freq words. Long story short, we talked to principal 1/2 way through year (were not able to get conference with teacher because teacher retired 1/2 way through year and long term sub was would not do conferences). The next day, DD was writing in a journal. Still not the best, but we're hoping for improvement with next year (did some recon and found out best 1st grade teacher - then requested her).

I am confident that all of the trouble teachers are having is related in some way to the NCLB requirements. Teachers all teach 'to the test' now, and spend an inordinate amount of time pulling lower students up and not nearly enough time challenging each student to be better. I don't know how to fix it - but I think that's the issue.

Our opinion (and you know what they say about those) is that we choose not to homeschool (though wife is more than capable). We feel you can't beat the socialization you get in a public school. The fact is - our little bundles-o-joy are gonna have to deal with morons and pains in the rear at some point in life. May as well do it now and get good at it!

 

[perkinsrose]

I didn't read all the posts, but I can feel the OP's pain. First and foremost I will say my wife (a former primary ed teacher turned SAHM) firmly believe it is 99% the teacher and 1% the school / school district. That is, there are great teachers (and some would argue more dedicated) teachers in bad districts and vice versa.

However... We were in same situation with DD last year. She had been reading a year before starting school (again, not that she was exceptionally gifted - but DW was great at working with DD, plus she went to a great preschool). When she got to school, same deal as OP - just coloring and high freq words. Long story short, we talked to principal 1/2 way through year (were not able to get conference with teacher because teacher retired 1/2 way through year and long term sub was would not do conferences). The next day, DD was writing in a journal. Still not the best, but we're hoping for improvement with next year (did some recon and found out best 1st grade teacher - then requested her).

I am confident that all of the trouble teachers are having is related in some way to the NCLB requirements. Teachers all teach 'to the test' now, and spend an inordinate amount of time pulling lower students up and not nearly enough time challenging each student to be better. I don't know how to fix it - but I think that's the issue.
Our opinion (and you know what they say about those) is that we choose not to homeschool (though wife is more than capable). We feel you can't beat the socialization you get in a public school. The fact is - our little bundles-o-joy are gonna have to deal with morons and pains in the rear at some point in life. May as well do it now and get good at it!

I agree.

"The Gifted Children Left Behind"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/26/AR2007082600909.html

This is a good book: GENIOUS DENIED

http://www.amazon.com/Genius-Denied...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217528769&sr=8-1

 

[DawnM]

I disagree with a lot of this post.....social skills? Really? So throwing a 3 year old into a class of 15 other 3 year olds is going to teach them social skills?

Almost all of the research I have read says that parents are the #1 influence to teach social skills.

Where is this research that shows that if they don't get these labeled social skills by age 8 that they will never get them and struggle throughout life? How do you define "struggling socially?" And how do you determine or label a truly gifted child who ends up being a leading neurosurgeon but prefers not to be with people a "social failure?" You have one example of one person, that does not a study make.

People are different, they have different atributes that make them unique. This is one thing that often cannot be addressed in public school.

In defence of all kids who are not popular but have a LOT to offer the world,

Dawn

OK, I’ve been catching up on the replies. Let me just agree that social aspects are EXTREMELY important. There have been numerous studies done that kids who don’t learn academics until later will catch up and can do just as well, or better, in college and beyond. Kids, who don’t learn those ever so important social skills from birth to ~age 8 (third grade-ish), generally never catch up and struggle with people and every day aspects for the rest of their lives. I see it in one of my sisters’ kids. That is why I chose a social based preschool. Of course, I still have children that know quite a bit—social based does not mean lacks all academic education. See my previous reply.

Being ahead also does not mean gifted. And most gifted, truly gifted, children are only gifted in one or two areas. Children who are ahead of the curve everywhere are generally very bright, but not gifted. And gifted or not, does not equal success in school and especially beyond. My brother is gifted, but not well rounded and struggles in his everyday life. He is choosing to be as much as a professional student as possible in order to stay where comfortable, but he is learning he now needs to, um, get a job! A real job. He’s thinking teaching college.

I also agree that you need to wait awhile to see if this is a real problem or a temporary issue. I’d watch the teacher closely. DS7 first K teacher was not a teacher that would even try to meet any child’s needs and it puts me on guard with every teacher here on out. I would not wait unit Thanksgiving. That is when DS7 switched to a wonderful beyond any measure teacher who I will be forever grateful to, and it was way too late. I’d give it a good 4-6 weeks before making a decision on the teacher. And volunteer in the classroom. I do every year and I think that is where I learn the most about my kids’ teachers.

Supplementing at home isn’t the best situation. Why are they at school then? For seven hours of sitting? What is the point in that? Kids should be separated into classes by abilities in K. At our school they do testing around Christmas of 2nd grade for GT class starting in 3rd. That’s three years of boredom. You can lose a child in that time. It’s my opinion that while kids might not always love school, if they hate school in K-3, they will never love school. It’s important for school to be educational and fun.

 

[Mickey Fliers]

Wow! Who knew that all these gifted children were from the DIS...

How many gifted children are there in the U.S.?

NAGC estimates that there are approximately 3 million academically gifted children in grades K-12 in the U.S - approximately 6% of the student population. No federal agency or organization collects these student statistics; the number is generated based on an estimate that dates back to the 1972 Marland Report to Congress, which estimated that 5-7% of school children are "capable of high performance" and in need of "services or activities not normally provided by the school."

 

[nessz79]

Wow! Who knew that all these gifted children were from the DIS...

How many gifted children are there in the U.S.?

NAGC estimates that there are approximately 3 million academically gifted children in grades K-12 in the U.S - approximately 6% of the student population. No federal agency or organization collects these student statistics; the number is generated based on an estimate that dates back to the 1972 Marland Report to Congress, which estimated that 5-7% of school children are "capable of high performance" and in need of "services or activities not normally provided by the school."

I was thinking about that, too.

Here's my theory (taken with a grain of salt please, LOL)

-Gifted students' parents are often gifted themselves, even if not tested
-The "gifted" often have a heightened sense of imagination
-Those that have a heightened sense of imagination would be naturally attracted to Disney, way beyond childhood
-Therefore some of the Disney fanatics, who may be gifted, find themselves here, immersing themselves in everything Disney.

Like my theory?

I think the problem is with the label "gifted." It naturally makes most people defensive. If some students are "gifted", what does it make the rest of students? Non-gifted? It's a loaded word.

Anyway, my humble thoughts.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

I don't think everyone here is saying their children are gifted. In fact many state that their child is ahead of average in the class, but they don't believe they are "gifted". The fact is there is a large range of abilities in each class. I don't lable my child as gifted even though he could read at age 3, and is now skipping a grade in school. My only concern is that he be placed in a classroom where he has an opportunity to learn new things. Not just review things he has already learned on his own.


Then again, maybe its all due to a disney education. Someone should do a study. "Children from families who love disney learn to read sooner."

 

[Aristomommy]

I disagree with a lot of this post.....social skills? Really? So throwing a 3 year old into a class of 15 other 3 year olds is going to teach them social skills?

Almost all of the research I have read says that parents are the #1 influence to teach social skills.

Where is this research that shows that if they don't get these labeled social skills by age 8 that they will never get them and struggle throughout life? How do you define "struggling socially?" And how do you determine or label a truly gifted child who ends up being a leading neurosurgeon but prefers not to be with people a "social failure?" You have one example of one person, that does not a study make.

People are different, they have different atributes that make them unique. This is one thing that often cannot be addressed in public school.

In defence of all kids who are not popular but have a LOT to offer the world,

Dawn

I've often wondered about this social skills issue as well. Having 20 kids in the same age group is socializing? How often after high school or college does that happen? At work I have various ages, races, religions, abilities etc. in my work group and patient population. This is nothing my school experience prepared me for. And about taking turns: I work in a hospital and if 5 people need a patient's chart, the Dr. gets it first no matter if "I had it first", LOL. Dr.'s don't have to sit patiently or even have nice manners. I could make a hypothesis that they were never socialized properly.

I understand why we teach these rules to young children, but isn't the end goal of socialization to teach you how this world operates and how to function best in it? I wouldn't expect the schools to be the only place to do this.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

nessz79, I love your theory.