Small camper recommendations

[Scherzermk]

Hi all! We have a FW trip planned for May. We have tent glamped there before but plan on having a camper before May. I have a list of 20 to 30 possible travel trailers. Here are a few musts: under 3000 lbs, sleep 3 adult, ac, refrigerator, separate changing area (probably a bath room). Wants include easy access queen bed, TV, freezer.
So my question is how can I really tell the difference in quality? Every company that has TT under $20k seems to only list problems in their reviews. I'm not looking for a Mercedes but I'd like to avoid a Pinto, to use a car comparison. Top choices on our list so far are Sunset Park Sun Lite, coachmen clipper cadet, Gulf Stream, and Prime Time. One Jayco and one KZ also look promising. Any thoughts? Thanks

 

[2goofycampers]

Campers are like cars, everyone has their favorite brand. There are 2 we would stick with. Jayco and Grand Design.

 

[Brett Wyman]

All TTs under 20k are built in a way that something will break in short time. Find the one with the weight limit(yours is very low one) and floor plans you like and go with that. In that size group I like the...

• Forrest River R-Pod Hood River 179.
• Jayco Jay Flight SLX 175 RD

Also what is your tow vehicle? Hopefully your max tow rating isn't 3000 pounds.

 

[peezee]

I love, love, love my 2020 Rockwood Geo Pro 19FBS. My pre-covid purchase price was just under $18k, but from what I gather they have gone up due to demand. It is built well, (at least for this category) and is relatively lightweight. I was leaning R-POD's before I stumbled on to these. The Flagstaff E-Pro model is identical, with only different graphics.

 

[chartle]

I have a KZ 180BH, 2750 dry 3500 GVWR. Sleeps 4 without tuning something into a bed but it has a Full XL bed in an east west configuration. As for a changing area, the bathroom in ours and all light short TTs is small. Used to tow it with a Jeep Cherokee but now have a Nissan Frontier.

 

[Scherzermk]

Current tow vehicle is Honda Odyssey with tow capacity of 3500 as is. I feel like that makes 27-2800 the sweet spot for me. I do like the looks of that KZ online. I need to find one to look at locally.
Thanks for the recommendations. I love the idea of spending less time setting up at the fort when the pool is calling.

 

[chartle]

Current tow vehicle is Honda Odyssey with tow capacity of 3500 as is. I feel like that makes 27-2800 the sweet spot for me. I do like the looks of that KZ online. I need to find one to look at locally.
Thanks for the recommendations. I love the idea of spending less time setting up at the fort when the pool is calling.

Note what makes them light is light sort of cheap materials inside. So don't expect solid wood cabinetry. Also when I towed with my Cherokee that had a 4,500 tow spec. I t most got 13 mpg on a trip I could get 31. One way to the fort from our house, 900 miles, would be 5 to 6 fill ups.

I now tow with a Frontier with a bigger tank and can carry gas in the bed upto 31 gallons total.

 

[bama_ed]

Current tow vehicle is Honda Odyssey with tow capacity of 3500 as is. I feel like that makes 27-2800 the sweet spot for me. I do like the looks of that KZ online. I need to find one to look at locally.
Thanks for the recommendations. I love the idea of spending less time setting up at the fort when the pool is calling.

Mmmm, I have thoughts. I'll say them. They've been said before.

We've been down this road with folks. A mini-van with a 3500# towing capacity. That was me a few decades ago.

First a 3500# tow capacity is generally based on two people weighing 150# a piece (if you read your owner's manual). Add an extra person and the weight of cargo/stuff in the mini-van you take camping, that limit goes down.

Second when looking at trailers you don't go by the empty weight of the trailer (the UVW or "Unloaded Vehicle Weight) because trailers salesman/data and politicians lie. Yep, it's true <shocker>. You have to go by the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating which is generally a minimum of 3000# which is the empty weight plus Cargo Carrying Capacity (GVWR=UVW+CCC). Your trailer by law should have a manufacturer's tag with the GVWR on it.

Third a trailer that pokes up taller than your vehicle is like towing a barn door down the interstate. That amount of air pressure resistance reduces your tow weight (and drops your gas mileage considerably). Some owner's manuals have a formula for calculating the impact on weight limits and some don't. But there is an impact due to towing taller than your vehicle. The fact that the leading face is curved doesn't matter.

Fourth your transmission will wear out (I had a Dodge Grand Caravan with a 3500# tow limit on a dealer installed tow package) since you would be towing so close to your weight limits. And you'll go through brake pads more frequently. Expect to pay every other year.

Fifth you can say ol' Ed is full of garbage and I'm gonna do what I want to do. And the when you're overweight and have some momentum travelling down a highway and have to stand on the brake for an emergency (somebody cuts in front of you, your light turns red, or make a fast move) and you STILL end up in the middle of intersection PRAYING folks don't hit you because you couldn't stop until you rolled 100 feet past the STOP sign/red light, you might survive and not kill your family. Anti-lock brakes won't stop you short of the intersection.

Sixth if something happens while towing while over the weight limits and God forbid your vehicle or trailer is involved, you may have taken a chance and ignored the numbers. But the insurance adjusters from the other side's insurance company won't ignore the numbers. They've got them down cold.

Bottom line is mini-vans are good for light pop-ups (that tow below vehicle height and have GVWR less than 3500#. It definitely sounds to me like you're looking for a trailer beyond what you can tow. You should reconsider what you are looking for in a trailer IMHO or pursue a tow vehicle with a higher tow rating.

Bama Ed

PS - there are plenty of stories of people towing over-weight trailers with under-powered vehicles. It's not a question of whether you can get a towed trailer rolling. The problem is when you you have an over-weight trailer rolling and you have to get it stopped quickly/safely. You should build in a safety margin between your effective towing capacity and your GVWR of whatever you tow. I would want a 5000# stated tow capacity vehicle at least to pull a 3500# stated GVWR trailer.

 

[bama_ed]

BTW, OP, I re-read your description and you use the term "sleeps 3". Are there going to be 3 people in your party more often than not or just 2 of you? An extra body in the car and associated stuff is worth a couple hundred pounds (or that much in weight savings).

Just wondering.

 

[chartle]

First a 3500# tow capacity is generally based on two people weighing 150# a piece (if you read your owner's manual). Add an extra person and the weight of cargo/stuff in the mini-van you take camping, that limit goes down.

Yea this is something I only see in towing specs for minivans I think its their sort of explanation of gross combined weight rating. Its not in the manual for the two vehicles I have towed with, 2014 Jeep Cherokee 4,500 lb spec or Nissan Frontier 6,300 lb towing spec.

From the current manual

 

[Brett Wyman]

Mmmm, I have thoughts. I'll say them. They've been said before.

We've been down this road with folks. A mini-van with a 3500# towing capacity. That was me a few decades ago.

First a 3500# tow capacity is generally based on two people weighing 150# a piece (if you read your owner's manual). Add an extra person and the weight of cargo/stuff in the mini-van you take camping, that limit goes down.

Second when looking at trailers you don't go by the empty weight of the trailer (the UVW or "Unloaded Vehicle Weight) because trailers salesman/data and politicians lie. Yep, it's true <shocker>. You have to go by the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating which is generally a minimum of 3000# which is the empty weight plus Cargo Carrying Capacity (GVWR=UVW+CCC). Your trailer by law should have a manufacturer's tag with the GVWR on it.

Third a trailer that pokes up taller than your vehicle is like towing a barn door down the interstate. That amount of air pressure resistance reduces your tow weight (and drops your gas mileage considerably). Some owner's manuals have a formula for calculating the impact on weight limits and some don't. But there is an impact due to towing taller than your vehicle. The fact that the leading face is curved doesn't matter.

Fourth your transmission will wear out (I had a Dodge Grand Caravan with a 3500# tow limit on a dealer installed tow package) since you would be towing so close to your weight limits. And you'll go through brake pads more frequently. Expect to pay every other year.

Fifth you can say ol' Ed is full of garbage and I'm gonna do what I want to do. And the when you're overweight and have some momentum travelling down a highway and have to stand on the brake for an emergency (somebody cuts in front of you, your light turns red, or make a fast move) and you STILL end up in the middle of intersection PRAYING folks don't hit you because you couldn't stop until you rolled 100 feet past the STOP sign/red light, you might survive and not kill your family. Anti-lock brakes won't stop you short of the intersection.

If you have to keep the Odyssey and are comfortable with a pop up they definitely have some in the 1800-2000 pound range. Which in my 100% un-professional opinion is the Odyssey's true max range.

Sixth if something happens while towing while over the weight limits and God forbid your vehicle or trailer is involved, you may have taken a chance and ignored the numbers. But the insurance adjusters from the other side's insurance company won't ignore the numbers. They've got them down cold.

Bottom line is mini-vans are good for light pop-ups (that tow below vehicle height and have GVWR less than 3500#. It definitely sounds to me like you're looking for a trailer beyond what you can tow. You should reconsider what you are looking for in a trailer IMHO or pursue a tow vehicle with a higher tow rating.

Bama Ed

PS - there are plenty of stories of people towing over-weight trailers with under-powered vehicles. It's not a question of whether you can get a towed trailer rolling. The problem is when you you have an over-weight trailer rolling and you have to get it stopped quickly/safely. You should build in a safety margin between your effective towing capacity and your GVWR of whatever you tow. I would want a 5000# stated tow capacity vehicle at least to pull a 3500# stated GVWR trailer.

I can add to this thought as we lived it in the past 12 months!

We had a 2016 Honda Odyssey. We were going to buy a "high wall" Travel Trailer around 2500-2700 pounds. Every forum on the face of the earth recommended against it due to the wind resistance(not to mention being so close to max tow capability). So we turned our focus to a modern Pop Up.

Like many we were happy with the cars we had and didn't want a truck or new payments so forward we went with the plan to use the van. Our other car is a crossover with a 3500 pound limit as well but the Odyssey has the longer wheel base and was our "vacation" vehicle. We took the Odyssey to the dealer and spent around $1000.00 on the factory installed class 3 hitch AND the transmission cooler. And of course a brake controller. If we were going to do this I was determined to at least do it right.

We finally settled for a Pop-Up around 2800 pounds. Heavy for a Pop Up but a bath/shower was a must for us. And inventory is limited too. The minute they hitched it up at the dealer I thought, "Oh no." We have a fancy weight distribution/sway bar combo but the rear still dipped A LOT. Ok I'll just get air bags for the rear later on and we'll be fine I thought. And to an extent it certainly can tow the trailer just fine. I never felt unsafe on flat roads at highway speeds but the Odyssey certainly strains getting started, passing, or going up hills. We did 3-4 trips, and again I have some towing experience, so I made it work. However I was never comfortable and a slight worry/discomfort was always in the back of my mind.

We took one trip up to about 3500 feet elevation in the North Georgia mountains. We were that slow car in the right lane everyone had to pass because the Odyssey was having to give all it had to get up those hills. Not really unsafe but super slow and annoying. Now coming back home was another story. Breaking going down that mountain was very unsafe. I didn't say a word to my family but I was white knuckling it all the way down. As mentioned we have an electric brake controller but the weight pushing on the Odyssey was just too much anyway(yes I adjusted the controller just before a "lockup" would occur).

Luckily for me and our finances my wife was also very nervous about the Odyssey and finally said, "We need a bigger tow vehicle". Thats all it took for me. We upgraded to something with a 7700lb max towing and never looked back. It's night and day between nervously towing something and towing something with a proper vehicle when you cant even tell the camper is back there. And its not a truck!

So yes 100% that Odyssey will tow 3000 pounds. But how comfortable you will be, how safe it truly is, and how much it is destroying your vehicle are completely different things all together. With the Odyssey we always limited ourselves to nothing further than an hour or two and we had to take anything with high elevation off the table, which is silly since we are 2 hours from Western North Carolina. With our new-to-us tow vehicle we are planning much longer highway trips with confidence.

 

[chartle]

One other thing is do not always believe the RV salesperson when they say "sure it can tow it". I'm on a few FB RV groups and have seen some horror stories.

One that comes to mind is a person was sold a 3,600 DRY TT when they towed with a 4 door Jeep Wrangler with a 3,500 lb spec. The salesperson said that that they did some "modifications" to the hitch to give them 500 lbs more tow spec. The modification was a weight distribution hitch . Note a WDH does not give you more tow spec.

 

[Scherzermk]

Thank you for your collective insight. I knew I could trust advice from here.
Bama Ed, we do have 3 people. That's what led me to think 2800 would be max.
Brett, thanks for experience. We can't get to any of our camping sites without crossing mountains. We are not into white knocking it.
So after family discussions, we will replace DH car with new tow vehicle. Is 5000lb reasonable capacity for what we are looking for in TT? A traverse with towing package we looked at says 5000 lb trailer and much larger gross vehicle wt.
Thanks for the help. This is a lot different than the tent!

 

[Marshel]

Have to agree with the previous posters, I tow a RPod 189 which has a dry weight just over 3000 lbs with a Nissan Frontier which has a 6300 lb rating; I wouldn't tow it with anything much smaller nor would I try and tow anything appreciably bigger.

 

[Sjm9911]

Bigger is better in regards to towing. Also check out the hybrids. You should be able to find something in the new weight range. Look a bit, i would hate to see you get something now and then get something bigger in a month. ( it happens, a lot).

 

[Sjm9911]

Check these out. https://www.rvingplanet.com/blog/top-5-best-bunkhouse-travel-trailers-5000-lbs/

 

[4077]

I get what SJM is saying.. it’s almost like you should know for almost certain what trailer you are going to get at this point first. IF you are going to be getting a different tow vehicle ANYWAY, you may be better off knowing the GVWR of the trailer you are going to buy first and then work back to getting the appropriate tow vehicle, since a new vehicle is in the plan now.

 

[bama_ed]

So after family discussions, we will replace DH car with new tow vehicle. Is 5000lb reasonable capacity for what we are looking for in TT? A traverse with towing package we looked at says 5000 lb trailer and much larger gross vehicle wt.
Thanks for the help. This is a lot different than the tent!

If the trailer has a GVWR of 3500# (or less) then I would say 4.5k-5k# is reasonable.

Marshel's rPod is probably 3700-3800# GVWR if it's over 3000# empty and so he might want/need a little more towing capacity.

All I mean is that if you're down in the 3500# GVWR range for the trailer, you don't need to go full pickup truck with 7k or 8k tow ratings because they run expensive (even used). There are some vehicles in that mid-range of 4.5k to 6.5k that will do the job at less cost especially if this new tow vehicle is also going to serve as somebody's daily drive.

I also agree with 4077 that you should select the trailer you want before a tow vehicle. Putting the TV first then sets a limit on how much trailer you can pull. And you might feel tempted to get more tow capacity ($$$) if you wanted to leave yourself some room on trailer selection.

Good luck!

Bama Ed

 

[Tallis]

Wow, my heart was beating out of my chest reading this thread. So glad you have reconsidered your tow vehicle!

We do tow with an Odyssey, but a pop up that doesn't weigh anywhere near 3k lbs, even when fully loaded. And that is with the addition of a LOT of extra equipment including a transmission cooler, wiring, brake controller, etc. And even with all of that, I will only tow with the van in Florida. I would never, ever dream of taking it into the GA mountains. We have a Titan we use when we leave the state.

There is no travel trailer on earth that I could even consider putting behind the Odyssey, or any other mini-van.

Our pop up does have roof a/c and a full bathroom with shower, so you can get those things without a giant camper. Just thought I'd add that. However, if we didn't live in flat country, I wouldn't tow with our van at all .... ever, not even a small pop up.

 

[Stork]

Welcome to the world of RVing vs tenting. We thoroughly enjoyed tenting in Colorado mountains when the boys were younger. Now that we're old(er) and don't have the young manual labor assistants we've graduated to the RV world.

Ditto to everything said above...and then some. Especially the comment about picking the RV first, then the tow vehicle second.

I bought a 2017 Chevy 2500 HD Duramax powered pickup, then picked out our Jayco Eagle 5er. I had run the numbs and figured we could be within all the guidelines. However, I failed to add in the extra weight of the optional (1) onboard generator, (2) two 40 lb propane tanks to run it, and (3) the washer/dryer combo. This was in preparation for our FL-AK-FL adventure summer of '18 with some boondocking stops planned. And of course, all of those items are in front of the twin axles (by a lot). Meaning their combined weights ensured my hitch pin weight exceeded the 2500's pickup bed weight limit by more than I could live with.

Back to the GM dealer to pick out our 2018 GMC 3500 HD Dually.

The lesson learned was that the word "optional" when buying an RV is very important because the weight of all those options ARE NOT REFLECTED ON THE YELLOW STICKER on the left side of your trailer. That totally escaped me.

But I got a new Dually in the process and we are totally happy with that truck. Live and learn...but definitely LIVE.