Sick of the upper class bashing

[Liberty Belle]

and those who have failed to plan for every conceivable financial problem that might ever come up in anyone's life.

From what I've seen, people who have reached what would be considered upper class have done it by a combination of hard work and some fortunate circumstances. You've got to work hard to get that education and keep that good job, but more often than not there was some good luck that helped you along the way. Being born in the right circumstances, being in the right place at the right time, meeting the right folks to network with...all that stuff comes into play.

I think what disturbs a lot of people here is that once some folks reach that upper class-they lose the capacity to say "There but for the Grace of God go I".

Absolutely!

 

[Acklander]

Our government is broken. We pay enormously obscene amounts in taxes to a social services system that's terribly broken. Until it's fixed I don't want to pour any more moeny into it than I already am.

I don't know what's so "dramatic" about that.

Anne

The fact is, there are always going to be people in society that can't take care of themselves; and we, as a society are responsible for taking care of them.
When you see the citizen, with Down's Syndrome, bagging your groceries do you think the $7.00 per hour that he earns even starts to cover his needs? Of course not. Do you think the store that hires him is doing it out of the goodness of their heart, or do you think the tax benefits they receive for hiring him comes into play?
How about if a major corporation like Haliburton collects billions in payments from the goverment and then decides to move their company and money overseas, should those employees be left in the cold with no way to feed their families or should we offer food stamps and a helping hand until they're able to find new jobs?
And how about the homeless - sure, it would be nice if we could just tell them all to get a job and then forget about them, but the fact is a majority of the homeless are mentally ill. Does it really bother you that a small portion of your tax money is going towards having a shelter or a food kitchen? Keep in mind that due to budget cuts, many of those shelters don't open their doors unless there is bad weather forcast.
It's easy to look down on young girls who get pregnant and have babies while they're still babies and end up on the dole - too bad many schools/clinics aren't allowed to use the word "birth control" or "abortion" while collecting federal funds.
Nobody wants to see an endless cycle of families on welfare, but where are the programs to help the families break the cycle? Many have been axed due to budget cuts.
Just because your family was able to overcome hard times without a helping hand, doesn't mean everyone is so fortunate. Where is your compassion????
I'm sorry it bothers you to pour "your" money into a tax system that you don't think is working. I understand your frustration - It kills me to pay taxes knowing how much is going to a war that is based on lies, and how much is going to corporate welfare, and how much is going for the senator's next raise, but to turn a blind eye to those who are truly in need and are hungry or unable to pay for medication or have no place to sleep - wow.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I guess that would put us in upper middle, but I find it hard to believe that only 15% of people fall there. Really, how uncommon is it for someone to be making 50,000 married to someone making 50,000? It is household incomes right?

I find it really odd that there are more people making under 16,000 than over 100,000. That class must be made up largely by students.

It sounds about right for this area (central Kentucky). I definitely would not classify someone making $60 -75,000 lower middle class, though. The median household income here is something like $50,000. So I'd say they're middle class.

Okay, wait, I just looked it up and Wikipedia says: The median income for a household in the city was $39,813, and the median income for a family was $58,677. Males had a median income of $36,166 versus $26,964 for females. The per capita income for the city was $23,109.

 

[tropical depression]

where do I sign up to get a handout for my Florida property taxes and insurance?

that would be so sweet

 

[ducklite]

The fact is, there are always going to be people in society that can't take care of themselves; and we, as a society are responsible for taking care of them.
When you see the citizen, with Down's Syndrome, bagging your groceries do you think the $7.00 per hour that he earns even starts to cover his needs? Of course not. Do you think the store that hires him is doing it out of the goodness of their heart, or do you think the tax benefits they receive for hiring him comes into play?

Maybe you should go back a bunch of posts to where I stated something along the lines of "of course we need to take care of those who truly are unable to care for themselves." I've stated this before on the DIS, and even specifically mentioned people with Down's Syndrome. Not all employers who employ disabled individuals get tax credits, BTW.

How about if a major corporation like Haliburton collects billions in payments from the goverment and then decides to move their company and money overseas, should those employees be left in the cold with no way to feed their families or should we offer food stamps and a helping hand until they're able to find new jobs?

Don't get me started on companies like these. And frankly IMHO any company that derives more than a small percentage of their income from the government should be required to keep the jobs here. Outsourcing sucks.

And how about the homeless - sure, it would be nice if we could just tell them all to get a job and then forget about them, but the fact is a majority of the homeless are mentally ill. Does it really bother you that a small portion of your tax money is going towards having a shelter or a food kitchen? Keep in mind that due to budget cuts, many of those shelters don't open their doors unless there is bad weather forcast.

Homeless who are homeless through a series of unfortunate circumstances need a hand up--a job, a place to stay. Homeless who are mentally ill need services. I have no problem with providing taxpayer funded services for mentally ill individuals. I do'nt believe we should cut off everyone, I never said I did. But the homeless guy who is able and not mentally ill shoudln't get an unlimited ticket to free shelter and food--he needs whatever small hand up it takes to allow him to become employed--maybe even a place to shower and have phone messages taken.

It's easy to look down on young girls who get pregnant and have babies while they're still babies and end up on the dole - too bad many schools/clinics aren't allowed to use the word "birth control" or "abortion" while collecting federal funds.

Which is pathetic IMHO. I mentioned before on another thread that my son's high school gave out condoms and instructed the kids on how to use them--and had a basket of them on a tbale in the hallway that they could help themselves, no questions asked. And they have never had a pregnancy.

Nobody wants to see an endless cycle of families on welfare, but where are the programs to help the families break the cycle? Many have been axed due to budget cuts.

I would rather see the private sector administer most of these programs. I think they stretch the dollar further, have more of a hand up rather than hand out mentality, and do a better job screening out those who abuse the system.

Just because your family was able to overcome hard times without a helping hand, doesn't mean everyone is so fortunate. Where is your compassion????

In the donations we make every year to various organizations like Habitat for Humanity.

I'm sorry it bothers you to pour "your" money into a tax system that you don't think is working. I understand your frustration - It kills me to pay taxes knowing how much is going to a war that is based on lies, and how much is going to corporate welfare, and how much is going for the senator's next raise, but to turn a blind eye to those who are truly in need and are hungry or unable to pay for medication or have no place to sleep - wow.

I hate the current administration and this farce of a war that has cost us billions and our grandchildren will be paying for. But we HAVE to become fiscally responsible and part of that will be weeding out social programs that are redundant and cutting benefits to some people. I never, ever said to cut off all benefits to everyone. I have plenty of compassion for those who are TRULY in need of a temporary hand up or need the protection of society such as the disabled. But for people who are able to work--we need to get them off public assistance and into jobs, rather than continuing the cycle of pvoerty. That's all I'm saying.

Anne

 

[DVC Sadie]

I've stated that my house is under 3000 s/f feet and I drive a freaking Saturn. If that means I'm flaunting anything, than I imagine so are half the DIS.

Anne

Hey, I'm flaunting and guess what? I worked my patootie off so I could buy a house that is 5700 square foot. Since when does a person become horrible because they worked their butts off to be able to afford nice things?

I will not apologize or make excuses for our success which some have called a fluke or the luck of the draw. I don't think so!

It was hard work for both of us, and our son did not have the pleasure of our company all the time (due to work) however, he had the best of us all of the time.

 

[TCPluto]

Hey, I'm flaunting and guess what? I worked my patootie off so I could buy a house that is 5700 square foot. Since when does a person become horrible because they worked their butts off to be able to afford nice things?
I will not apologize or make excuses for our success which some have called a fluke or the luck of the draw. I don't think so!

It was hard work for both of us, and our son did not have the pleasure of our company all the time (due to work) however, he had the best of us all of the time.

I don't think that's the point being made. It doesn't make you horrible. I think it makes you successful.

Attitude and delivery of your (not you specifically, but some seem to fit) position, stature, level of attainment is what is horrible.

Humility doesn't seem to fit some..

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

where i agree some of the upper class are nice people and deserve what they get, some of them aren't. prime example is a father who is a judge, worked hard all his life, has a daughter.....and she does pretty much nothing, got a job from daddy, and expects everyone to fall all over themselves for her, all the while expecting to live like a princess while she does nothing. now THAT is the type of thing i have a problem with. but i have no problem with someone who works their butt off and gets what they deserve.

 

[connorlevismom]

I guess I do not bash the class, just the people who I have information about. I try not to judge a class harshly in the same way that I do not give respect, globaly, until it is earned. As in "respect your elders". There are many that do not deserve it, OJ, ken lay etc...
Politeness is appropriate, and I am sure I have embarrasingly crossed that line when I have wrongly jumped to a conclusion on a few occasions, until you have facts to make a judgement.

Mikeeee

ps congrats on the reply count! I'm jealous. Seriously, heheheheee

Well, just know that all "rich" people are not asshats like the ones that you know. I think we all know some people like that and I think they would be that way no matter what they made. Some people are just jerks.

Kristine

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Ducklite says:

Again you are missing the point. People should take care of themselves before turning to the government for help.

but a page earlier said:

BTW--I was a single mom as well, and for years I had no insurance for me but was able to scrape together what was $25 (15-20 years ago) to buy into the state program for DS. For my health care I went to a crappy community clinic in a crappy part of town that charged sliding scale fees. They also had a pharmacy with sliding scale costs on prescriptions.

Um....so how exactly did you become so "successful" all on your own w/o any government assistance? Because that sure as hell sounds like you used the programs available when you needed to. Perhaps using your own logic you should have worked 2 or 3 jobs instead of turning to the STATE for your son's health care.



~Amanda

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Of course it won't. The point is that I didn't sit on my butt and collect welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc., I worked, I learned new skills, and I made a better life for myself. Last I knew that was the American dream.

But you DIDN'T do it on your own...but you expect everyone else to be able to.

 

[ducklite]

Ducklite says:



but a page earlier said:




Um....so how exactly did you become so "successful" all on your own w/o any government assistance? Because that sure as hell sounds like you used the programs available when you needed to. Perhaps using your own logic you should have worked 2 or 3 jobs instead of turning to the STATE for your son's health care.



~Amanda

Read a little more. It was a program that the state acted as a group sponsor so anyone of any income level could buy a major medical policy through BC/BS for their child. It was not state funded, nor did it cover well child visits. I never used it anyhow. It was insurance, and had there been a claim, BC/BS would have paid on it, not the state. BTW--I WAS workign two jobs.

 

[ducklite]

But you DIDN'T do it on your own...but you expect everyone else to be able to.

I did do it on my own. Not sure how you think you know so much about me to think I didn't.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Read a little more. It was a program that the state acted as a group sponsor so anyone of any income level could buy a major medical policy through BC/BS for their child. It was not state funded, nor did it cover well child visits. I never used it anyhow. It was insurance, and had there been a claim, BC/BS would have paid on it, not the state. BTW--I WAS workign two jobs.

Glad to hear you were working 2 jobs. And it doesn't truly matter that you NEVER used it. It would have been there should you need to use it. For those that couldn't scrape the $25.00 per month but are working poor - if their child needed medical attention then then they would be screwed.

I don't begrudge you what you have. You worked for it, you deserve it. But you seem to think everyone that is the working poor are just lazy and undeserving. You tell them to work 2 and 3 jobs, move, uproot. While all that worked for you - it may not work for everyone.

BTW - who watched your child while you worked these 2 jobs? Family? Did you have to use a Center?

~Amanda

 

[hydster]

But you DIDN'T do it on your own...but you expect everyone else to be able to.

Or marry UP!

 

[Chloe'sMom]

I did do it on my own. Not sure how you think you know so much about me to think I didn't.

Because in reality - no one does it on their own. Not even Bill Gates, who worked with Jobs for a long time to develop that software. Then he had workers to put it together, and a team or marketers and then suddenly you have Windows and a Billionaire. But he didn't execute it all on his own.

I certainly didn't do it all on my own. I worked full time while going to college but thankfully my parents allowed me to live at home for the first 3 years of college, elsewise I couldn't have afforded it. I used federally backed loans to pay for my college tuition that I am still in the process of paying back. My Grandmother left me $5000.00 when she died that I used to pay for school books and buy a junker car to get me around. My Father kept me on his health insurance until I was 22, then I got a full time job with benefits and went to night school.

I've worked my TAIL off to get where I am - but I am not blind enough to think I did it all on my own. Without my family, without my grandmother's money, without federally backed loans and a small school scholarship I never would have become who I am today. Also I thank Planned Parenthood which gave me birth control pills for free for YEARS while I went to school. Therefore helping me to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.

~Amanda

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Ohh Amanda, you made me think of something, I have used government programs to help me...student loans and pell grants. Hmmm So should I have just worked and put off school?

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Ohh Amanda, you made me think of something, I have used government programs to help me...student loans and pell grants. Hmmm So should I have just worked and put off school?

Darn Straight! You should of had 2 jobs - one during the day and one at night. You should have only gone to class on the weekends!

And thanks to the Bush Admin - student government programs have been paying less and less.

~Amanda

 

[ducklite]

Because in reality - no one does it on their own. Not even Bill Gates, who worked with Jobs for a long time to develop that software. Then he had workers to put it together, and a team or marketers and then suddenly you have Windows and a Billionaire. But he didn't execute it all on his own.

I certainly didn't do it all on my own. I worked full time while going to college but thankfully my parents allowed me to live at home for the first 3 years of college, elsewise I couldn't have afforded it. I used federally backed loans to pay for my college tuition that I am still in the process of paying back. My Grandmother left me $5000.00 when she died that I used to pay for school books and buy a junker car to get me around. My Father kept me on his health insurance until I was 22, then I got a full time job with benefits and went to night school.

I've worked my TAIL off to get where I am - but I am not blind enough to think I did it all on my own. Without my family, without my grandmother's money, without federally backed loans and a small school scholarship I never would have become who I am today. Also I thank Planned Parenthood which gave me birth control pills for free for YEARS while I went to school. Therefore helping me to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.

~Amanda

I'm glad you were so fortunate. I wasn't able to live at home and attend college. I didn't get a scholarship or grant, or an inheritance. I paid my tuition out of pocket in cash for my first three semesters, put it on a credit card and paid it off over time for the fourth, and then had to quit because I couldn't afford to continue. And I was using birth control when I became pregnant, and my at the time fiance decided when I was in my fourth month that he "couldn't handle it" and took of to the west coast leaving me with all the bills--and never paid me a dime of support.

I had a few lucky breaks here and there, I'll freely admit that. But I got where I am today through hard work and determination, and no one will take taht away from me.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Darn Straight! You should of had 2 jobs - one during the day and one at night. You should have only gone to class on the weekends!

And thanks to the Bush Admin - student government programs have been paying less and less.

~Amanda

I should also mention I had a work/study job, I think the government contributes to that as well. I am happy to say that in less than a year I will be finished paying back my last outstanding student loan.