Sick of being Vilified!!!

[krcit]

First, let me say that I love our teachers, and I'm a certified teacher, but a SAHM. I'm also in NJ. Our budget wasn't passed - lost by 8 votes! The reason it didn't pass is because everyone wanted to take a stand against the teachers who got a 4% pay increase, for the next 3 years, and the union for refusing a pay freeze, or having teachers pay a little for their health benefits (which was dumb on the residents part, since the contract has already been finalized, and now more teachers and programs will be cut).

My DH has been working for the same company for 20 years, and hasn't had a raise in over 4 years (salary freeze). Our town employees agreed on a pay freeze. Many of our friends have had 10% salary reductions. The price the average worker in the private sector pays for benefits has been going up and up.

Years ago, NJ created these wonderful benefits for teachers because of low salaries. The starting salary for teachers in my town is $45,000, with free benefits.

NJ was hit bit-time with the cuts, and I think those of us with kids in the school system would just like to see the teachers union take one for the team, like the rest of us.

I agree with this. I pay sky-high school taxes and am happy to be in a great school district, however something has got to give.The teachers raises are a given so that when the budget comes around the district threatens us with all the cuts they will make if the budget doesn't pass...oh, first they have a re-vote Where else can you retake a vote b/c you don't like the outcome? Ridiculous. I have 3 kids and have a teacher from my district in my family. I don't fault the teachers for making good money. I fault the incredible waste that goes on. My high school dd came home the other day to say that there are 3 or 4 new flat screen TV's in the high school lobby. My kids had tele-conferences that cost over $1000 in kindergarten...on and on it goes. Tomorrow is a budget meeting where the superintendent will explain the budget and smooth talk you so much that you leave the meeting thinking you'll have a check in your mailbox b/c he's saving us so much money.

 

[stashbin]

One can make that type of argument about anything. Without electric workers we wouldn't have lights in the school, without contractors, we wouldn't have schools in which to teach, etc. No one is implying that teachers and public workers are not necessary, but without the means to pay them, their jobs couldn't exist. No doubt many engineers and accountants have gone back to school to be certified so they can get a job teaching math. Some states have a fast track for certification if you want to teach math and science. People need to do what they need to do to work.

True. It's just bad out there for everyone!

 

[DawnCt1]

Dawn, you would be surprised at how little of those percentages actually do go towards education. A lot of those tax dollars goes towards other things so when the education system asks for an increase on their behalf, the public gets angry. And remember, teachers and other government employees pay the same taxes everyone else does along with their union dues.

Ct. like many states, fund their school systems with local property taxes augmented with state and federal funds, so I am well aware which portion of my property tax bill goes to education. A large portion of that is salary and benefits. I don't have a problem with that. Don't forget however, that those who work in the private sector often contribute a lot more to their medical benefits, fund the bulk of their retirement through 401Ks or 403Bs, IRAs, Roth's etc, with very limited matching on the part of the employer, if any.

In New Jersey, public employees contribute $115K towards their retirement and collect over $3 million dollars when they leave their jobs. That is almost nothing in the private sector that compares to that kind of return. Eventually there is a point where the burden on our children and grandchildren will be insurmountable.

 

[Colleen27]

Teachers are just the latest "in" target for the anti-union sentiment, now that the American auto industry is so weakened that ragging on it looks about as classy as kicking a sick puppy. It has absolutely nothing to do with you, with how hard teachers work, or even with what they make, and once the current budget mess puts our public education system right there in the "failure" pile next to the auto industry, I'm sure the anti-uninon rhethoric will move on to cops or firefighters or whatever other union stronghold needs busting next.

 

[DawnCt1]

Teachers are just the latest "in" target for the anti-union sentiment, now that the American auto industry is so weakened that ragging on it looks about as classy as kicking a sick puppy. It has absolutely nothing to do with you, with how hard teachers work, or even with what they make, and once the current budget mess puts our public education system right there in the "failure" pile next to the auto industry, I'm sure the anti-uninon rhethoric will move on to cops or firefighters or whatever other union stronghold needs busting next.

Unfortunately it was the unions that destroyed GM and Chrysler. GM still has a grossly underfunded pension plan. I often think that while Toyota's problems should have been addressed in an appropriate and timely manner, that they are a bigger target than they would have been because they have no union. The unions have received preferential treatment when it comes to bailouts, stimulus contracts, etc but it is important to remember that 90% of Americans do not belong to a union and they need jobs too.

 

[mjkacmom]

Keep in mind that $45,000 is not at all close to the average starting salary for a teacher in the US. I understand that communities are not getting the funding that they did in the past. Teachers are not the only ones getting raises. For example, elected officials have voted themselves raises and they're making more than $45,000. I'm not sure why people assume that teachers don't pay for insurance.

Don't even get started about private companies. There are plenty that have given out raises and bonuses even though they are loosing money.

Teachers here don't pay into their health insurance. And I agree it's just as wrong for banks to give bonuses when they were bailed out, and for teachers to get raises when their school districts have no money. It just doesn't make sense in this economy.

 

[daughtersrus]

Unfortunately it was the unions that destroyed GM and Chrysler. GM still has a grossly underfunded pension plan. I often think that while Toyota's problems should have been addressed in an appropriate and timely manner, that they are a bigger target than they would have been because they have no union. The unions have received preferential treatment when it comes to bailouts, stimulus contracts, etc but it is important to remember that 90% of Americans do not belong to a union and they need jobs too.

I don't believe that's true. The banking industry has been bailed out but I don't believe that they belong to a union.

 

[DawnCt1]

Teachers here don't pay into their health insurance. And I agree it's just as wrong for banks to give bonuses when they were bailed out, and for teachers to get raises when their school districts have no money. It just doesn't make sense in this economy.

Many of those bonuses were paid out as part of a contract to keep those workers on to unwind those troubled assets; as part of the salary; "You stay and finish this and then we will pay you what we owe you". They were not 'a job well done' type of bonus. Furthermore, many of the banks have repaid the bailout money.

 

[DawnCt1]

I don't believe that's true. The banking industry has been bailed out but I don't believe that they belong to a union.

They don't belong to a union, but many of the banks that took TARP funds have repaid the government.

 

[ccgirl]

The other "arguement" that can be made is that in some states it's property taxes that fund education. What about people that don't have children or send children to private schools? They are still paying for the public education and not utilizing it. I think most people, especially now feel overworked and underpaid.

 

[DawnCt1]

I agree with this. I pay sky-high school taxes and am happy to be in a great school district, however something has got to give.The teachers raises are a given so that when the budget comes around the district threatens us with all the cuts they will make if the budget doesn't pass...oh, first they have a re-vote Where else can you retake a vote b/c you don't like the outcome? Ridiculous. I have 3 kids and have a teacher from my district in my family. I don't fault the teachers for making good money. I fault the incredible waste that goes on. My high school dd came home the other day to say that there are 3 or 4 new flat screen TV's in the high school lobby. My kids had tele-conferences that cost over $1000 in kindergarten...on and on it goes. Tomorrow is a budget meeting where the superintendent will explain the budget and smooth talk you so much that you leave the meeting thinking you'll have a check in your mailbox b/c he's saving us so much money.

That is shocking! What a waste.

 

[Sarah7401]

Originally Posted by DawnCt1
One can make that type of argument about anything. Without electric workers we wouldn't have lights in the school, without contractors, we wouldn't have schools in which to teach, etc. No one is implying that teachers and public workers are not necessary, but without the means to pay them, their jobs couldn't exist. No doubt many engineers and accountants have gone back to school to be certified so they can get a job teaching math. Some states have a fast track for certification if you want to teach math and science. People need to do what they need to do to work.

Without teachers, though, electricians and contractors wouldn't know how to read in order do their jobs.

I'm agreeing that it's so tough out here for everybody, but teachers are the backbone of society and deserve respect and compensation.

 

[bdoyledimou]

I am not a teacher, but i support the work they do for my kids..

It's not just the teachers salaries, but it's the buildings, the grounds, the materials (textbooks) etc etc etc that we are investing in.

To those that claim teachers are paid too much.. i really hope they aren't going to movies or watching TV (actors salaries are HUGE), or attending or watching professional sporting events (come on $10 Million a year to hit a ball with a stick?!) Just think of the quality of education if the Gov't wasn't subsidizing those industries with tax breaks and was instead funneling those funds into the communities!

 

[allison443]

I think this is partly the fault of the teachers unions. "professionals" don't have unions, labor does. Teachers exist in this odd limbo where they want union benefits and contracts like labor but treated as professionals. As long as teacher unions exist, they will be treated as "labor".

And even though teachers get villified, I don't think it's teachers per se, but the union and the ridiculous contracts. As a PP stated, asking people to pay more in taxes who have already had their salaries frozen or cut in order for teachers to get salary increases and continue to have benefits like not contributing to their health insurance is going to generate a lot of negativity.

If OP wants to lay blame, start with her union rep.

I live in NJ and I completely agree with this post. In my opinion this entire thing was badly handled by the union, and the unions have not helped the teacher/taxpayer relations at all. In the past when there have been contract negotiations/disputes the union has had the teachers do things like refuse to write college recommendations for students, etc. because it is not specifically in their contract. This is not "professional", imo.

 

[DawnCt1]

The other "arguement" that can be made is that in some states it's property taxes that fund education. What about people that don't have children or send children to private schools? They are still paying for the public education and not utilizing it. I think most people, especially now feel overworked and underpaid.

You are right, but most of us with no children in the school system understand the benefits of education to society at large. There are a lot of town services that many people do not utilize, but there is a breaking point and most towns, cities and states have approached that point a while ago.

 

[iwrbnd]

I don't understand people who moan and complain about money for teachers, fire, police. I just can't think of anywhere better to put funds.

I've often said there are only 3 things I would vote to have my taxes raised for...teachers, fire and police! They should be making way more!

 

[DawnCt1]

I live in NJ and I completely agree with this post. In my opinion this entire thing was badly handled by the union, and the unions have not helped the teacher/taxpayer relations at all. In the past when there have been contract negotiations/disputes the union has had the teachers do things like refuse to write college recommendations for students, etc. because it is not specifically in their contract. This is not "professional", imo.

To me, that is just awful. Its part of preparing students for college, which I thought was part of the job of a teacher. No one is saying that teaching is easy. DS#3 is a full time substitute teacher with a BA in History. In Ct. all subs must have a bachelor's degree. He gets no benefits but at this point in his life, he is grateful for a full time job. He never misses a day and needed every day. He is well aware of the challenges of teaching. When he is done with classes, he stays for building security, volunteers for extra curricular activities,etc.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Just like every other profession, there are good and bad teachers. Just like every other profession, the bad apples get all of the press. Don't take it personally. It could be worse. You could be a blood sucking lawyer or a greedy corporate manager...

 

[Brit17]

I am still wondering why everyone has a problem with teachers getting raises? What would happen if there were not enough teachers to educate the public's children for free? You want to talk about angry folks?

I don't think that everyone has a problem with teachers getting raises at all, per se ... I believe the issue is with the fact that some teachers and their unions are just not willing to even compromise to take a temporary pay freeze just until this financial fiasco that we are all facing takes a turn for the better ...

I applaud the teachers and administrative who have agreed to take a pay freeze and pay towards their health benefits ... everybody, whether in the public or private sector, has had to make these same financial sacrifices in one way or another ... maybe if we can all just do our part and work together for the short term, it'll help us all for the better in the long term ...

 

[DawnCt1]

I've often said there are only 3 things I would vote to have my taxes raised for...teachers, fire and police! They should be making way more!

Then the following article should make you happy. This payraise is retroactive to 2007. One of the sticking issues on the contract in Boston was random drug and alcohol testing, despite the deaths of two impaired fire fighters. The question remains; where is Boston going to get another $74 million.

BOSTON (FOX 25 / MyFoxBoston.com) - Boston Firefighters have agreed to submit to random drug and alcohol testing in exchange for a 19 percent raise over the next four years.

A labor arbitrator handed down the decision, which also includes some limitations on sick leave. The victory for firefighters ends a long battle between the Boston Firefighters' Union and the city of Boston that started after firefighters were reluctant to submit to drug and alcohol testing after an autopsy revealed that two firefighters who died in a 2007 restaurant fire may have been impaired.

Mayor Thomas M. Menino said this about the decision in a statement today: "This contract provides a 19% raise - which is 5% more expensive than the wages provided to other public safety agencies during successful negotiations. This award will cost taxpayers an additional estimated $74 million. These facts speak for themselves. I will, by law, submit the arbitration award to the Boston City Council tomorrow."

The city of Boston had offered the firefighters a 14 percent raise over four years, which is the same percentage given to police and teachers' unions for their last contract renewals.

The head of the Boston firefighters union says his members are looking forward to putting the dispute behind them and focusing on being the best in the profession.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news...ercent-raise-agree-to-random-testing-20100419