Sick of being Vilified!!!

[Toad_Passenger]

I think this is partly the fault of the teachers unions. "professionals" don't have unions, labor does. Teachers exist in this odd limbo where they want union benefits and contracts like labor but treated as professionals. As long as teacher unions exist, they will be treated as "labor".

And even though teachers get villified, I don't think it's teachers per se, but the union and the ridiculous contracts. As a PP stated, asking people to pay more in taxes who have already had their salaries frozen or cut in order for teachers to get salary increases and continue to have benefits like not contributing to their health insurance is going to generate a lot of negativity.

If OP wants to lay blame, start with her union rep.

ITA with you on this. Everyone I know loves the teachers in our district, but when contract time comes up, it isn't usually the teachers doing the talking. The State Union representatives come in and start whispering in their ears, and that's when things get bad. The Unions have a political agenda to push, make no mistake about it. The Union also protects teachers who are not doing their job. Certainly a majority of teachers put forth 150%, stay overtime, and help the kids out, but there are plenty who don't do that, and they are basically stealing the taxpayers' money every contract cycle.

Add to that the fact that the Union is allowed to Strike and hold students/communities hostage until they get their way, just makes for a bad situation. Where I live, the teachers' salaries have approached, and surpassed 100,000/year in Districts where taxes are already high, and rates of unemployment are skyrocketing. Five years from now, regardless of the economic climate, the State Union will once again be there to make sure that number gets even bigger, and the question is, when will it end?

It has nothing to do with being unappreciative towards the teachers, but to the taxpayers they see the Politics behind the Union driving the wages.

 

[Hoodie]

You were very brave posting this but you are exactly right. New Jersey is the "canary in the mine". The rest of the states will follow. Public employees as a whole make more than those in the private sector in terms of benefits, retirement, etc and yet without the private sector, those jobs can't exist. Ct. is facing unfunded mandates, underfunded pension plans and the answer in Hartford? Increase the taxes. New Jersey has lost of lot of those "evil rich people" who decided that they can move and not pay those tax hikes. What happens when all of those "evil rich people" move to a more business and tax friendly state? Those in the private sector are tired of being squeezed to fund those who work in jobs with guaranteed pay raises while their salaries are being cut and their jobs are being lost.

This has happened to a county here. They imposed a "millionaire's Tax". Well, guess what? The number of "millionaires" in the county dropped dramatically and now they have a huge budget hole just due to that. In trying to raise more money, they ended up raising far less then they started with.

 

[DawnCt1]

ITA with you on this. Everyone I know loves the teachers in our district, but when contract time comes up, it isn't usually the teachers doing the talking. The State Union representatives come in and start whispering in their ears, and that's when things get bad. The Unions have a political agenda to push, make no mistake about it. The Union also protects teachers who are not doing their job. Certainly a majority of teachers put forth 150%, stay overtime, and help the kids out, but there are plenty who don't do that, and they are basically stealing the taxpayers' money every contract cycle.

Add to that the fact that the Union is allowed to Strike and hold students/communities hostage until they get their way, just makes for a bad situation. Where I live, the teachers' salaries have approached, and surpassed 100,000/year in Districts where taxes are already high, and rates of unemployment are skyrocketing. Five years from now, regardless of the economic climate, the State Union will once again be there to make sure that number gets even bigger, and the question is, when will it end?

It has nothing to do with being unappreciative towards the teachers, but to the taxpayers they see the Politics behind the Union driving the wages.

I agree with everything you said and let me also point out, many in the private sector give 150% for no extra pay, just to keep their jobs.

 

[stashbin]

Those in the private sector are tired of being squeezed to fund those who work in jobs with guaranteed pay raises while their salaries are being cut and their jobs are being lost.

I understand this completely. But what about the fact that teachers went to school to train to become teachers so they could work for those salaries and benefits? Teaching jobs aren't just given to people. They have to go to school and earn that privilege. It's almost like private sector employees are mad at government employees for being government employees.

It's bad out there for everyone. But I think the OP is just tired of being hated just because she chose to become qualified to be a teacher so she could work for the benefits that so many people are resentful that she has.

 

[Wall-E1]

The problem is that teachers are greatly undervalued in our society. They deserve much higher salaries than what they are currently getting. Their work is so vital to our society. I would never argue against salary hikes or benefits for teachers. There's always going to be people that just don't get it. Perhaps if more money had been put into our education system, these people would not have grown up to become so ignorant.

 

[daughtersrus]

I think this is partly the fault of the teachers unions. "professionals" don't have unions, labor does. Teachers exist in this odd limbo where they want union benefits and contracts like labor but treated as professionals. As long as teacher unions exist, they will be treated as "labor".

And even though teachers get villified, I don't think it's teachers per se, but the union and the ridiculous contracts. As a PP stated, asking people to pay more in taxes who have already had their salaries frozen or cut in order for teachers to get salary increases and continue to have benefits like not contributing to their health insurance is going to generate a lot of negativity.

If OP wants to lay blame, start with her union rep.

I guess that depends on your definition of professional. There are unions that represent police officers, fire fighters, nurses...

Where I live, the teachers' salaries have approached, and surpassed 100,000/year in Districts where taxes are already high, and rates of unemployment are skyrocketing.

Do you mind sharing where this is? Is this for 1st year teachers or for those that have a MA+ and have been teaching for 20 years?

 

[stashbin]

The problem is that teachers are greatly undervalued in our society. They deserve much higher salaries than what they are currently getting. Their work is so vital to our society. I would never argue against salary hikes or benefits for teachers. There's always going to be people that just don't get it. Perhaps if more money had been put into our education system, these people would not have grown up to become so ignorant.

This is funny and so true!

 

[DawnCt1]

I understand this completely. But what about the fact that teachers went to school to train to become teachers so they could work for those salaries and benefits? Teaching jobs aren't just given to people. They have to go to school and earn that privilege. It's almost like private sector employees are mad at government employees for being government employees.

It's bad out there for everyone. But I think the OP is just tired of being hated just because she chose to become qualified to be a teacher so she could work for the benefits that so many people are resentful that she has.

But everybody goes to school to train and become "whatever" so they can work for specific salaries and benefits. There are engineers, pharmaceutical representatives, accountants, business managers, computer scientists, the list goes on and on who have at least a BA or a BS and often an advanced degree, who have been laid off, had pay freezes or pay cuts or cannot even get jobs in their field of expertise. Yet, they have to pay increases in property taxes, income taxes, sales taxes to feed the public sector that rarely is impacted. Public employees pay taxes too but not out of wealth that they created but from wealth that found its origins in the private sector, which is rapidly shrinking.

 

[eliza61]

The problem is that teachers are greatly undervalued in our society. They deserve much higher salaries than what they are currently getting. Their work is so vital to our society. I would never argue against salary hikes or benefits for teachers. There's always going to be people that just don't get it. Perhaps if more money had been put into our education system, these people would not have grown up to become so ignorant.

Op, I did the opposite. I started out as a chemistry Teacher and left after 7 years. Too much BS and crap I had to tolerate, from parents who did not want to actually be parents, to township officials who thought teaching was some thing easy to do, to a society that feels teachers are the favorite whipping boy whenever we have economic problems.

Now that I'm in research and development, I get paid 2X my teaching salary, without the hassles. I will say it's not as emotionally fulfilling though.

 

[stashbin]

But everybody goes to school to train and become "whatever" so they can work for specific salaries and benefits. There are engineers, pharmaceutical representatives, accountants, business managers, computer scientists, the list goes on and on who have at least a BA or a BS and often an advanced degree, who have been laid off, had pay freezes or pay cuts or cannot even get jobs in their field of expertise. Yet, they have to pay increases in property taxes, income taxes, sales taxes to feed the public sector that rarely is impacted. Public employees pay taxes too but not out of wealth that they created but from wealth that found its origins in the private sector, which is rapidly shrinking.

True. But without teachers educating kids, then there would be no engineers, accountants, etc. Some jobs are necessary to have a productive society period. Just like we HAVE to have police and firefighters, we HAVE to have teachers. Why anyone would be upset with those who choose to teach society's children is beyond me. Maybe the engineers and accountants who have had to endure salary cuts and layoffs should go teach math.

 

[DawnCt1]

The problem is that teachers are greatly undervalued in our society. They deserve much higher salaries than what they are currently getting. Their work is so vital to our society. I would never argue against salary hikes or benefits for teachers. There's always going to be people that just don't get it. Perhaps if more money had been put into our education system, these people would not have grown up to become so ignorant.

There are lots of people who deserve more money for what they do, but the question remains, where is the money going to come from? How much should the taxpayer be willing to pay? Between state and federal taxes, is 40% enough? Is 50% enough? Is 60% too much? 47% of Americans pay no federal income taxes at all State income taxes are often indexed to what is paid federally. Some people get earned income tax credits when they pay no taxes. Should the top 10% carry 70% of the burden? It is easy to vote for tax increases, higher salaries, better benefits when you (theoretical you) aren't paying for it and someone else foots the bill. Remember the story of the goose that laid the golden eggs.

 

[mjkacmom]

The problem is that teachers are greatly undervalued in our society. They deserve much higher salaries than what they are currently getting. Their work is so vital to our society. I would never argue against salary hikes or benefits for teachers. There's always going to be people that just don't get it. Perhaps if more money had been put into our education system, these people would not have grown up to become so ignorant.

I guess I'm ignorant thinking that $45,000 a year is a fair salary for a starting teacher? Or that even though the fact that our town is losing 38% of $ from the state this year, teachers are getting 4% raises for the next 3 years? If a private company lost millions of dollars one year, do you really think that every employee would get across-the-board raises, and not have to pay for their health benefits?

Yes, teachers pay taxes, too, but at least their raises will more than cover the increase. My taxes are supposed to go up about $500 a year, so 15,000 total. Wish DH got a raise.

 

[eliza61]

You were very brave posting this but you are exactly right. New Jersey is the "canary in the mine". The rest of the states will follow. Public employees as a whole make more than those in the private sector in terms of benefits, retirement, etc and yet without the private sector, those jobs can't exist. Ct. is facing unfunded mandates, underfunded pension plans and the answer in Hartford? Increase the taxes. New Jersey has lost of lot of those "evil rich people" who decided that they can move and not pay those tax hikes. What happens when all of those "evil rich people" move to a more business and tax friendly state? Those in the private sector are tired of being squeezed to fund those who work in jobs with guaranteed pay raises while their salaries are being cut and their jobs are being lost.

Except for NJ will lose. The canary has died. Our school budgets have to balance by state law so townships have 2 choices, either cut drastically every thing that made our school systems great. My township high schools have already announced that starting next year all freshman classes will be 31 kids each. or they will raise property taxes.

So already the promise to not raise property taxes has been shot. We had a vote on school board budgets yesterday. 1/2 the townships voted them down so now the school districts in the towns where the people voted no, are already saying they will divert the funds from local law enforcement to make up the difference.
Luckily my district passed it's budget. My property taxes may go up but I will retain the excellent high school that my youngest attends.

One of the reason many people move to south NJ from Philly and the surrounding area is for the excellent schools, that will no longer be true. So what exactly happens to the public school kids in a year or two. Southern NJ will probably have the same reputation as Florida and Mississippi, lousy schools except for those who can afford to send their kids to private school.

 

[princessmom29]

I am also a high school chemistry teacher and I am gonig to be totally honest about the union issue. I am ONLY a union member for the protection agianst lawsuit by a parent. We are provided $1M liability insurance plus a union lawyer if we are ever sued by a parent. In today's society people will sue at the drop of a hat over the silliest things, and while they may not win, legal fees are astronomical and could quickly financially ruin a teacher. One of our teachers restrained a child during a pasycotic episode and was sued by the parent of that child. The parent maintained that the child didn't need to be restrained and that the teacher used excessive force. The child had already bitten a teacher and harmed 2 students to the point that they needed treatment when he finally got hold of her to pin her until medics got there. Fortunately our security cameras caught the whole incident on video and the judge found in the teacher's favor, but he was not a union member and had to sell his house to cover legal fees. There was a judgment agianst the mom for his legal fees, but she had nothing to take to pay them. If you want teachers to abandon thier unions, perhaps tort reform is the way to go? I will continue to pay union dues until there is no possibility that a vindictive parent can do that kind of damage to my family. I simply have no choice. I don't agree with a lot of the things the union does, but I cannot open myself and my family up to that kind of risk.

 

[stashbin]

There are lots of people who deserve more money for what they do, but the question remains, where is the money going to come from? How much should the taxpayer be willing to pay? Between state and federal taxes, is 40% enough? Is 50% enough? Is 60% too much? 47% of Americans pay no federal income taxes at all State income taxes are often indexed to what is paid federally. Some people get earned income tax credits when they pay no taxes. Should the top 10% carry 70% of the burden? It is easy to vote for tax increases, higher salaries, better benefits when you (theoretical you) aren't paying for it and someone else foots the bill. Remember the story of the goose that laid the golden eggs.

Dawn, you would be surprised at how little of those percentages actually do go towards education. A lot of those tax dollars goes towards other things so when the education system asks for an increase on their behalf, the public gets angry. And remember, teachers and other government employees pay the same taxes everyone else does along with their union dues.

 

[princessmom29]

Except for NJ will lose. The canary has died. Our school budgets have to balance by state law so townships have 2 choices, either cut drastically every thing that made our school systems great. My township high schools have already announced that starting next year all freshman classes will be 31 kids each. or they will raise property taxes.

So already the promise to not raise property taxes has been shot. We had a vote on school board budgets yesterday. 1/2 the townships voted them down so now the school districts in the towns where the people voted no, are already saying they will divert the funds from local law enforcement to make up the difference.
Luckily my district passed it's budget. My property taxes may go up but I will retain the excellent high school that my youngest attends.

One of the reason many people move to south NJ from Philly and the surrounding area is for the excellent schools, that will no longer be true. So what exactly happens to the public school kids in a year or two. Southern NJ will probably have the same reputation as Florida and Mississippi, lousy schools except for those who can afford to send their kids to private school.

I wish we only had 31 in freshman classes. If we have less that 40 we count ourselves lucky!

 

[DawnCt1]

True. But without teachers educating kids, then there would be no engineers, accountants, etc. Some jobs are necessary to have a productive society period. Just like we HAVE to have police and firefighters, we HAVE to have teachers. Why anyone would be upset with those who choose to teach society's children is beyond me. Maybe the engineers and accountants who have had to endure salary cuts and layoffs should go teach math.

One can make that type of argument about anything. Without electric workers we wouldn't have lights in the school, without contractors, we wouldn't have schools in which to teach, etc. No one is implying that teachers and public workers are not necessary, but without the means to pay them, their jobs couldn't exist. No doubt many engineers and accountants have gone back to school to be certified so they can get a job teaching math. Some states have a fast track for certification if you want to teach math and science. People need to do what they need to do to work.

 

[daughtersrus]

I guess I'm ignorant thinking that $45,000 a year is a fair salary for a starting teacher? Or that even though the fact that our town is losing 38% of $ from the state this year, teachers are getting 4% raises for the next 3 years? If a private company lost millions of dollars one year, do you really think that every employee would get across-the-board raises, and not have to pay for their health benefits?

Yes, teachers pay taxes, too, but at least their raises will more than cover the increase. My taxes are supposed to go up about $500 a year, so 15,000 total. Wish DH got a raise.

Keep in mind that $45,000 is not at all close to the average starting salary for a teacher in the US. I understand that communities are not getting the funding that they did in the past. Teachers are not the only ones getting raises. For example, elected officials have voted themselves raises and they're making more than $45,000. I'm not sure why people assume that teachers don't pay for insurance.

Don't even get started about private companies. There are plenty that have given out raises and bonuses even though they are loosing money.

 

[Handbag Lady]

I will not villify you. I believe that teachers are grossly underpaid for the important work that they do. And, I thank you for your service to future generations. Teachers are rare gems and should be honored for the work they do.

This. I think you should be paid more.

 

[stashbin]

I guess I'm ignorant thinking that $45,000 a year is a fair salary for a starting teacher? Or that even though the fact that our town is losing 38% of $ from the state this year, teachers are getting 4% raises for the next 3 years? If a private company lost millions of dollars one year, do you really think that every employee would get across-the-board raises, and not have to pay for their health benefits?

Yes, teachers pay taxes, too, but at least their raises will more than cover the increase. My taxes are supposed to go up about $500 a year, so 15,000 total. Wish DH got a raise.

This is bordering on political here...but they did! The banks were losing all sorts of money and they got bailed out! Then the CEO's got bonuses!

I am still wondering why everyone has a problem with teachers getting raises? What would happen if there were not enough teachers to educate the public's children for free? You want to talk about angry folks?