Should Students be required to perform "Community Service"?

[DaParkers]

Forcing students to do it kind of ruins the whole point of "volunteering". It is just more idiocy from a failed school system run by out of control Liberals.

Calm down and have some "tea".

 

[NHdisneylover]

Since NHDisneylover brought it up
What is the difference between service hours and volunteering and OP what was your thought in your post?

I've never heard the term "service", here in my area it is always called volunteering.
Is there really a difference and if so, what is it?

If the school puts an "hours" requirement on the duty then a child is being forced to trade their time for the requirement in order to receive their diploma. Unless this occurs during the school day at a facility/location provided by the school then IMO they should not mandate it.

The school is saying a child must do something for nothing outside of the school day/classroom/homework scope etc. IMO this is not like gym class, a school provides a teacher, a track/gym in order for a student to partake of gym class. Does the school provide the ways/means/transportation/supervision etc. for a "service" requirement and is it done during the normal school day like gym would be?

Service is providing labor of some sort for the community good without monetary compensation. It can be volunteer or not. In the case of it being a requirement for graduation it is not volunteer. Pretty simple really.

I agree----those of you that don't see a problem with it have never had to work at a charity and have cranky teenagers forced to do something they don't want to do work with you!! I would rather just sign their papers and have them leave without doing anything than to have to deal with the attitudes on some of them for hours on end! You can only take so much of them sitting there texting on their cell phones or just sitting there doing nothing!! Please---keep your kids home if they don't want to volunteer---its sure not doing the place they are volunteer at any good to have to deal with them!

I t sounds awful having to deal with those kids. I think the best way to handle it would be for the schools to be very clear with the local organizations that it is FINE to send surly teens home and to refuse to sign their cards. Don't reward their crappy behaviour and do not let it interfere with your organization--send the bad apples home and do not sign. Once the word gets out that you will not get signatures unless you really get your butt in gear and WORK, kids will do it (especially if once you are sent home you have to find a new place to go because you have burned your chance at place #1). Stick to having realistic expectations of the teens for a year or two and then you will start to see a pay off as they learn (yep, learn) what is really required.

But I don't think there is a difference. That was my point. I think the idea that there is a difference is total b.s.

Now that my rant is over, I have no idea what the OP intended.

Again-- the difference is whether is is required or not. It seems to me what you feel is total BS is requiring service hours. Me, I think that is valuable and teaches many great skills.

No of course not, a student should only need academics to graduate from school. Forcing students to perform community service in order to receive their diploma is just another example of schools trying to indoctrinate our kids in what they want them to be/do, just one more attempt at taking control away from parents and giving it to themselves. They need to stay out of the personal choices of families and stick to reading, writing and arithmetic.

Only academics? SO we should immediately droop gym class, art class, theatre, music, health, computer classes, life skills, sewing, childcare, mechanics, woodworking, etc. ?
If the three "Rs" are all you want out of school you will have to cut out half of the school day in most places.

I also think, to a small extent, school is about "trying to indoctrinate our kids" though I would not use such language to describe it The whole reason a society has public education is to produce the next generation of kids with a skill set and knowledge that is beneficial to the society as a whole. We educate our citizenry because an educated population is better able to compete in a world market, functions more smoothly together, etc.

This argument only floats if math, science, and English were the only subjects in which children could or should be educated. They're not. Kids take art, music, foreign language, and history, to name a few. I certainly hope that no one is arguing that these subjects should be dropped. There is no clear line in the sand as to what areas of education should be included, and there certainly is no line that says that kids cannot be educated to have a good work ethic and to give back to the community in which they live.



All sorts of homework occur outside of the school, outside of the school facility, and without school supervision. Yes, students trade time and effort for their diplomas.





The fallacy here is that schools are just there to provide for the wants and needs of your child. Free public education in this country was always intended to benefit our nation as a whole by producing an educated citizenry. Those citizens are expected to be good workers and intelligent voters who give back to the society in which they live. Like it or not, public schools were always intended to indoctrinate children. Public education is supposed to create a standard that will give the most benefit to society as a whole. That necessarily means that choosing to participate in public education may conflict with some personal choices of families. If you are a Neo-Nazi, for instance, you can probably count on public schools indoctrinating your children with ideologies with which you do not agree. If you don't like it, you are allowed to home school them and indoctrinate them with your own beliefs, but since those beliefs will not benefit the society as whole, you should be footing the bill.

Clearly, our society is trending toward requiring some community service, because we believe it is in the best interest of us all to do so. Your friends and neighbors are paying for your child's education, so you are not the only one who gets a say in what that education entails.

I think all of this is very well said, most especially the last paragraph.

 

[bicker]

Nope. Requiring 'volunteer' work is dumb.

True: It wouldn't be volunteer work. It would be community service. That's what the proposals are for.

What is the difference between service hours and volunteering

One is what is what this proposal is about, and the other is a distraction seemingly aimed to try to make it seem like the proposal doesn't make sense, when it actually does.

Volunteering is doing more than the community service that would be required.

It should be the school's duty to educate, period.

Community service as a component of graduation requirements helps students learn a strong work ethic, and learn a sense of public service.

 

[bicker]

Perhaps a good compromise here is to have community service a credit course satisfying a civics requirement, that can also be satisfied by a book-learning course.

 

[Art 1]

Mine had to do a certain amount to graduate. There was a requirement for each of the four years. It didn't hurt them any. The school was very strict about this requirement.

 

[golfgal]

Perhaps a good compromise here is to have community service a credit course satisfying a civics requirement, that can also be satisfied by a book-learning course.

In our school the community service hours are part of your Social Science grade (History, Civics or whatever class you are taking in the social sciences).

I also agree that people are confusing community service with volunteering-they are not necessarily interchangeable. A lot of convicted criminals have to perform community service hours-do you consider THAT volunteering?

 

[Pastamom]

I think it is a good idea. It can teach students to give back to the community. So many young people live in their "bubble" and have no idea what's going on around them. Volunteering can help students develop a social conscience, something which is sorely lacking IMO. Like with everything else this can be what you make of it. You can teach your kids that they are too busy to help others or that this can be a great opportunity to learn and give back.

 

[kamik86]

I haven't read all the posts but wanted to chime in.

When I was in school I had required hours for religious education and I think the national honors society as well. I was also a girl scout so had many requirements for different projects there.

However these were all things that I choose to do (well except religious education as mom made me do that one but that was just because by high school ours was a joke, if it was good like in elementary school I would have gone willingly). I had no problem making the requirement (I had enough for the three high school years of religious education at the end of my freshman year)

However I know there were many kids that had trouble finding things to do. Everything I did was a long commitment (teaching the elementary school religious education, being an alter server) or was set up as a big group activity for girl scouts (many of those being things for the younger troops). So if you weren't willing to do more hours then needed or in a group that did it anyway it was much harder. Our area also had no good public transportation so if you can't drive yet you had to get parents to bring you places. Their were a few spaces for things like the church bazaar, church dinners etc. but not too many as there were a group of regulars they would always let have the spots first. (and those were the most fun ones)

Near the end of when requirements were do some groups were overrun with a bunch of "new volunteers" that obviously didn't want to be there. I wonder if they were more of a burden then a help. Now if they required EVERYONE in the public schools to do this and not just those that did religious education I think the problems would have been much worse.

That said there was public service required at our school in some shops but it was things the shop did. For example carpentry and electricity did building for habitat for humanity and fixing work for non-profits in the area because there is much more of a point there then building a structure just to take it down so the next class can do it year after year. Our IT shop did some repairs for groups like that as well. But these were graded during class time and the school supplied transportation if needed. So they really were just like any other assignment.

 

[Cindy B]

My sons and daughters IB middle school required community service hours. It started at like 15 hours in 6th grade and it worked out to 50 hours total for the entire middle school environment.

My daughter exceeded that. One year she did 65 hours, another year 88, and over 40 . She has earned three Presidential Volunteer Service Awards.

The high school does not require it-- I wish they did. It was great for both my daughter and son. My son did not like it as much as my daughter did, but it was still interesting.

 

[GinnyEmma]

Sure. Call it mandatory and not volunteer. Who cares what it is? It is good for them. As far as cranky teens, I've never had that happen. The kids I've dealt with have always been fun.

 

[bicker]

As far as cranky teens, I've never had that happen.

I suspect that the main resistance to this idea will eventually come from "cranky" parents who see the imposition of this requirement on their children as placing additional burdens on them, in terms of facilitating transportation and other logistical matters, even if just to avoid the inconvenience they choose to take onto themselves associated with deciding not to rely on what could be community-provided logistical options (i.e., child getting home later, "ruining" their own leisure time plans with their children, etc.). That's why I think it is essential to have a classroom-alternative, teaching the same civic responsibility (albeit in a substantially inferior manner).

 

[declansdad]

True: It wouldn't be volunteer work. It would be community service. That's what the proposals are for.

One is what is what this proposal is about, and the other is a distraction seemingly aimed to try to make it seem like the proposal doesn't make sense, when it actually does.

Volunteering is doing more than the community service that would be required.

Community service as a component of graduation requirements helps students learn a strong work ethic, and learn a sense of public service.

Call it what you want but you are still asking students to perform the functions of a volunteer. Forcing people to volunteer is what happens when you are convicted of something.

Having people volunteer when they don't really want to is going to create more work for the people who are there everyday.

 

[declansdad]

This argument only floats if math, science, and English were the only subjects in which children could or should be educated. They're not. Kids take art, music, foreign language, and history, to name a few. I certainly hope that no one is arguing that these subjects should be dropped. There is no clear line in the sand as to what areas of education should be included, and there certainly is no line that says that kids cannot be educated to have a good work ethic and to give back to the community in which they live.

Art, music, phys ed, language are all important parts of a school system and are easily included in the mandate to educate a child. Forced participation in something outside the school is not.

 

[bicker]

Call it what you want but you are still asking students to perform the functions of a volunteer.

No it isn't. It is what it is: Community service. The term "volunteer" is just one of the ways that a need for community service can be filled. Another way for that work to be accomplished is via a paid position. I am sure you are not claiming that someone getting paid to do that work is a "volunteer".

Forcing people to volunteer ...

There is no such thing: "Forcing" and "volunteer" are effective antonyms. That's why this distinction is important: It makes no sense to make decisions based on logical fallacies. That just causes unnecessary confusion.

By contrast, opposition to having students expected to serve the community as part of their graduation requirements does make sense, even if someone doesn't agree with it.

 

[louey]

I think its a good thing My son and (daughter,since graduated 2007) both attend a private school and are required to do (40 hours) community service. My daughter volunteered with the Food Bank stocking shelves and helped serve Thanksgiving dinner at a mission and she really enjoyed it! My son volunteered his hours for a Tennis Program that brings the sport into the city. It can be a real eye opener for some, I am all for it

 

[shortbun]

In our school the community service hours are part of your Social Science grade (History, Civics or whatever class you are taking in the social sciences).

I also agree that people are confusing community service with volunteering-they are not necessarily interchangeable. A lot of convicted criminals have to perform community service hours-do you consider THAT volunteering?

I agree that community service is NOT volunteering but it could encourage volunteering later in life. High School students in our district are required to graduate with 100 hours of community service. They can easily satisfy this with 4 saturdays a year and they can work as a group for a community org or volunteer for another school. My son accomplished 30 hours this year assisting coaches in a middle school's track program. He used to run track but decided he didn't want to compete at that level. He loved helping the team though.. This summer, he's put in another 10 stocking shelves in the community resource center. He's almost half way there and he's just entering his sophomore year. He'll have way over the high school requirement but most colleges want to see twice what the high school asks.

 

[declansdad]

No it isn't. It is what it is: Community service. The term "volunteer" is just one of the ways that a need for community service can be filled. Another way for that work to be accomplished is via a paid position. I am sure you are not claiming that someone getting paid to do that work is a "volunteer".

There is no such thing: "Forcing" and "volunteer" are effective antonyms. That's why this distinction is important: It makes no sense to make decisions based on logical fallacies. That just causes unnecessary confusion.

By contrast, opposition to having students expected to serve the community as part of their graduation requirements does make sense, even if someone doesn't agree with it.

The only reason the two terms are not used together is because, in many cases, the person performing the "community service" is not performing of their own free will; while the volunteer is.

I work for a non-profit and the volunteers we use for events that want to be there are a godsend. The people who are only there because they have to be, not so much.

 

[bicker]

Understood, and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear earlier, that I think that is a good argument against requiring community service for graduation, which I why I posited the alternative of offering it as one of two required for-credit options, the other being a classroom civics course.

 

[declansdad]

Understood, and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear earlier, that I think that is a good argument against requiring community service for graduation, which I why I posited the alternative of offering it as one of two required for-credit options, the other being a classroom civics course.

I could agree with that as long as it wasn't a required course.

 

[powellrj]

My DD has spent her entire summer doing volunteer work because she wants to do it, not because she has to do it. While I would have no problem with a classroom community service project, being forced to do "community service" really isn't much of a service to the community.

She has even noticed it with the work she has done this summer. She was wondering why she was being sent out with the group that was doing the harder work while another group always got sent to do the easy jobs. She was told it was because the kids who were considered the workers-the ones that were there to work and do a good job were sent out to do actual work, while the other kids-the ones who showed up but didn't really work, were sent out to be kept busy. While she was glad they considered her a worker, she didn't think it was fair that everyone didn't have to pull their own weight. I told her get use to it, thats life.