Should I Buy Riviera?

[jpluth]

Me and my wife bought 210 at BLT resale and just added 150 at RIV direct to get the blue card. We dont have and arent planing to have kids sandlike RIV because it seems a little more adult (same for BLT) but thats just thememing really, and MOSTLY because at both our home resorts we are on transportation (not busses) to 2 parks (once the Epcot monorail is back) which is big for us because we like to drink and dont want to use our car once we check in just in case. That said, for you, it may be also good to have direct transportation that isn't a bus especially with your other home being AKL considering how far away that is from everything, the only way to get anywhere from there is drive or bus and it isn't a short bus trip and they dont run as often as you'd probably like. Think about being able to leave HS or Epcot and get right on the skyliner with 2 young boys as oppose to waiting for a bus

 

[Paul Stupin]

That is me too. Just wouldn't do it.

I agree. I really do love the DVC product, and I'm full aware that its not any sort of financial investment, but I would certainly like to maintain equity as well. In the long run I don't think the restricted points will be worth as much.

A few random thoughts on the Riviera

1. Beautiful resort and rooms, but I don't feel as "immersed in the magic" as I do in the larger, more visibly themed resorts.
2. On site dining is limited. The quick serve location I don't care for and I feel Topolino's is both pricey and overrated.
3. I don't really regard it as an Epcot Resort. I regard it more as a resort requiring, at the shortest, a 20-30 minute journey to Epcot (room to park entrance), on the side of a nondescript access road, curiously overlooking an ageing caribbean themed motel.

That said, my wife and I had a great time there last September, and we love the pools. And of course sooner or later we'll be back!

 

[RoseGold]

RIV 1BR has an absolutely brutal chart, and I consider its location subpar for that kind of chart.

For 1BR, AKL, BW, BLT.

I would pick BLT resale. Hard to argue that location or the charts, and I think it has a lot of room to run.

I don't see why a family of four needs a blue card at all, even assuming past perks, which is a big assumption. Disney will be glad to take your money and give you a Blue Card on the next resort, assuming there is a Blue Card in the future.

RIV isn't even half sold and has no real resale in the mix right now. We have no idea what will happen to booking patterns with this resort. (Though the 1BRs are so expensive, you're probably good!)

 

[The Jackal]

So that’s kind of accurate and kind of inaccurate. Anyone who purchased resale prior to some point in January 2019 can actually use their points at RIV. It’s only anyone who purchases resale after that who cannot use their new resale points there.

I don’t have the numbers (I am sure someone here does) but I am sure the population of pre-restriction resale owners plus direct owners is large and all of those people can use those points at RIV.

You should also think about when you want to go. High demand DVC times may make it difficult to get a one bedroom for a full trip somewhere. Are you open to split stays? Are you only traveling in low demand DVC times? All things to consider.

Yes the overwhelming points in DVC as a whole as of right now are grandfathered and can be used at RIV and for right now future DVC resorts. I’m guessing well over 90% of the points out there are grandfathered. Probably in the 95-98% range. DVC is selling a lot more sold out resorts right now. I have been saying for years they were missing out on sales by not offering other resorts. They alway pushed the new resort and AUL (which will never sell out).

 

[macman123]

I have 2845 points and own at VGF, BLT, PVB, SSR and now direct at RIV.

I brought a fixed week 52 at RIV so in terms of resale it should be more attractive.

It was 196 points, but I added on 4 points to get to the next incentive level.

 

[Paul Stupin]

I have 2845 points and own at VGF, BLT, PVB, SSR and now direct at RIV.

I brought a fixed week 52 at RIV so in terms of resale it should be more attractive.

It was 196 points, but I added on 4 points to get to the next incentive level.

Congrats! Resale wise, I haven't found that the fixed week makes a difference price wise, but maybe it will be different with Riviera.

 

[sethschroeder]

Congrats! Resale wise, I haven't found that the fixed week makes a difference price wise, but maybe it will be different with Riviera.

Not yet

My thought process is long term IF there starts to be issues booking rooms especially at RIV having the FW will give the buyer piece of mind of a fallback option.

I don't think FW resale will see any bump in value for another 15 or so years. Also "worst case" is you never use the FW and you simply sell it as a normal contract sometime in the future.

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

I'd buy AK direct if you're interested in blue card. Easy peasy. Then you'd have a great chunk of points and can use the direct points at RR. CC is gorgeous, but it has the same issue as AK for getting around easily. It's better with the boats, but still not super convenient to get around.

I will say, we have B/G, and we all LOVE RR. I like the small footprint to let them be a little independent to pick up orders at Primo Piatto, meet them down at the pool if they're crazed to get down there and we're still unpacking, and I can definitely see them as teenagers loving the Skyliner to HS/EP and being in the same parks as us, but not necessarily glued to our sides as they get older. We have done one-bedroom at RR twice now and were very impressed how much room we all had to spread out. We share the one toilet, obviously, but the way it's laid out in the corner, my husband have the giant bathroom with jetted tub to get ready that is adjoining the bedroom, and the kids share the big main sink facing the hallway. We all have plenty of space to do what we need to do. Maybe if we all got up at the same time the bathroom would be more of an issue, but we get up staggered and haven't had an issue.

We had company over at the one-bedroom at RR -- friend's teenager came over with her friend and babysat her little brother and our two kids in our room while we did Topolinos, then we all came back to our room for cocktails/snacks. We had four adults, two 15 year-olds, two 8 year-olds, and a 7 year-old in there with no problem. The teens took the balcony with popcorn. Kids piled on the Murphy bed to watch TV/popcorn, and the adults hung out at the dining room table. Plenty of room, no noise.

If you trust your son's judgment, I don't think you'd be sorry to be on the Skyliner staying there. It's really great. The Skyliner is a ride to us, too!

 

[davidl81]

RIV 1BR has an absolutely brutal chart, and I consider its location subpar for that kind of chart.

For 1BR, AKL, BW, BLT.

I would pick BLT resale. Hard to argue that location or the charts, and I think it has a lot of room to run.

I don't see why a family of four needs a blue card at all, even assuming past perks, which is a big assumption. Disney will be glad to take your money and give you a Blue Card on the next resort, assuming there is a Blue Card in the future.

RIV isn't even half sold and has no real resale in the mix right now. We have no idea what will happen to booking patterns with this resort. (Though the 1BRs are so expensive, you're probably good!)

This more than anything else is my biggest turn off to RIV. That point chart on 1BR is brutal. Your 150 points won’t go very far booking 1BRs there.

 

[jscottnc]

Two words: second bathroom. BLT is not really my vibe (SWMBO and DD like it) but you really cannot argue against a second full bath and the location. I will concede that the Murphy beds are more comfortable than fold out couches.

BTW, Skyliner is great UNLESS you are using it to make rope drop.

 

[sethschroeder]

CC is gorgeous, but it has the same issue as AK for getting around easily. It's better with the boats, but still not super convenient to get around.

Yes but being next to MK is way ahead of being next to AK for the majority of people.

 

[sethschroeder]

BTW, Skyliner is great UNLESS you are using it to make rope drop.

Not exactly true since you can still make rope drop and I have not heard as many issues now with the restrictions of 1 party per gondola have disappeared. They do suggest though walking over to the CBR station instead of waiting at RIV if you are going to HS. With more time we will have more reports good or bad though.

Report on a POP thread I saw they got to the Skyliner (a little late) but 10 mins prior to actual opening and there was no line. It would have been a 30-60 min wait a couple months ago before they reverted back to the old skyliner loading process.

Then you have another person saying they went on the Skyliner from Pop and still were held for about 20 mins before the rope drop. https://www.disboards.com/threads/rope-drop-back-at-dhs.3841863/

 

[sndral]

Fellow AKV owner/lover here (also love my VGF.) Ask yourself what it is you love about AKV? Is it Jambo’s serene & sweeping lobby? Or even Kidani’s less majestic/but still open & laid back vibe? You won’t get that at Riviera - when I visited it felt cramped & like DVC cut construction costs at the expense of the common spaces. CCV was designed by the same architect as AKV Jambo & has that same soaring height lobby which I love, but the pace is always more frenetic than AKV/L. Is it the savannas? The views at Riviera are very different. Also make a list of what you don’t like about AKV - maybe bus only transportation, if so, then Riviera wins if you’re a Skyliner fan (I am.) The boat to CCV is lovely, but only gets you to the MK & does so very slowly, it’s bus only everywhere else.
I suggest you take a look at costs vis a viz. the point charts/MFs for each resort you are considering. 200 points at AKV will get you a lot more nights than 200 points at Riviera will. I looked at the first full week in April 2022 for a 7 night Sat. to Sat. stay in a 1 br. lowest view category:
AKV 1 br. standard view 230 points x $8.07 MF = $1856
Riv 1 br. standard view 321 points x $8.38 MF = $2690
CC 1 br. 271 points x $7.59 MF = $2057
Long term your AKV points will get you a lot more WDW for a lot less money. However, it isn’t only about money, there are so many intangibles, I’d at least visit each resort on my maybe buy list before I bought.

 

[kenyoncad]

Or you might find that CCV appeals more than you think once you're there. Designed by the same Architect as AKV and really is a lovely resort too.

Wow. I didn’t know AKV & CCV were by the same architect, so its interesting those are my 2 favorite resorts. Riv is a close third, my main turn off with Riv is the point chart, way more points to stay there than my favorites, however the quick serve is fantastic as is Topolinos.

I really like being in the main building, to grab coffee or snacks from the quick serve without going outside, it also makes me more comfortable in letting my kids run down and refill their mugs on their own.

Transportation isn't a big deal for us as we generally have a car, but the boat is great from CCV and the skyliner is awesome for HS & Epcot.

If I were buying direct, didnt have any other points I would probably go AKV and Riv a close 2nd.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

RIV 1BR has an absolutely brutal chart, and I consider its location subpar for that kind of chart.

For 1BR, AKL, BW, BLT.

I would pick BLT resale. Hard to argue that location or the charts, and I think it has a lot of room to run.

I don't see why a family of four needs a blue card at all, even assuming past perks, which is a big assumption. Disney will be glad to take your money and give you a Blue Card on the next resort, assuming there is a Blue Card in the future.

RIV isn't even half sold and has no real resale in the mix right now. We have no idea what will happen to booking patterns with this resort. (Though the 1BRs are so expensive, you're probably good!)

I completely agree with the killer point chart and location. RIV is a beautiful resort, but the location is meh. If there is bad weather, the gondolas shut down, which can rapidly change plan time lines. If they built the RIV where the new Marriott is going it would have been a home run. The pluses to buying RIV are the rooms are very nice and open, the skyline, food is overall good there too, the minus is the location. Yes it is listed as an Epcot resort, and the skyline gives it good access to Epcot and Hollywood, but the skyline shuts down-a lot. If looking for a one bedroom, RIV would not be in my top choice, I think BLT, AKV, BWV. The first two have the extra bathroom - so you get two bathrooms in a one bedroom for much less points than RIV.

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

Yes but being next to MK is way ahead of being next to AK for the majority of people.

True.

 

[havoc315]

I am calling all you seasoned DVC owners, math nerds and hyper analyzers to help a gal out.

Here is the situation:
- We are a family of 4, 2 boys are still elementary age.
- We are in the process of buying our AKL resale but we are also looking to get that Blue Card. I was looking at Copper Creek.
- I have never been to the resort to see it, however from all the walk through blogs and whatnots I don't love it I am an ALK girl all the way.
- When we were looking at home resorts I sat my 4th grader down and asked him to do every one bedroom tour and rank them with what you like most to least. SHOCKER his absolutely loved Riviera, it was his number one for very practical reasons, sleeps 5, no pull out, larger room, clean crisp look (he is a bit of an old soul).

My Thoughts:

The Good: The location is great, 2 boys are likely going to want to be by HS and EPCOT in the next 10 years. The resort is beautiful and looks very nice, my son is right it checks a lot of boxes for our family's needs, murphy bed. The price point for a direct purchase is the biggest driver for me.

The Bad: MF seems crazy high! I am concerned about the skyliner, its not proven yet but you are pretty much paying a premium for it. Obviously, resale restrictions, even though I am not looking to resell it my concerns are, availability for owners down the line with a group of resale owner booking at 11 months and done. Could it become the resort of renters, what will that do to MF and overall vibe of resort? If Disney has trouble selling it out what will that do to MF if owners only get a slim credit for breakage? Currently I am not seeing a huge discount on the resale market given the restrictions but will that come into play more as the new car smell wears off?

I have attached my spreadsheet and I would love for someone to pick it apart. Just for background on my parameters, I was told buy our guide current owners get an additional $5 a point off with a 200 point purchase bringing it to a $181 per point purchase. I ran the current dues +5% annually over the lifetime. Use years were what my guide said "is being sold right now". This calculation has RIV beating CCV buy a hair.

I want to hear your opinions. Give it to me straight doc!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kS0OLBdAIFH7Wly-bmfCIfvznERcRgIf45y4FDfPDf0/edit?usp=sharing

1 -- Maintenance fees really aren't that high for a new resort. The pattern has been that a new resort launches with high fees, but then they don't increase much the first few years. As it stands, the fees are already pretty comparable to AK.
2-- Over the years, re-sale restrictions will become less of an issue, not more of an issue. 15 years from now, a huge chunk of resorts will be expiring -- not exactly very attractive to re-sale buyer. Meanwhile, by then, there will likely be several resorts with the same restrictions. Buying a "non-restricted resale" contract will lock you out of all but the oldest resorts.
3-- Wouldn't be concerned with re-sale buyers flooding the buy-in at 11 months. That already happens at every resort: most people, whether restricted or not, will book at their home resort around 11 months and then try to move at 7 months. This will balance out at Riviera -- because of the restrictions, there will be fewer people trading in to Riviera at 7 months, at the same time that there are fewer people trading out.

 

[havoc315]

RIV 1BR has an absolutely brutal chart, and I consider its location subpar for that kind of chart.

For 1BR, AKL, BW, BLT.

I couldn't disagree more. RIV 1BR is a cheaper point chart than GFV.

And about equivalent to BLT. Remember, the standard view at Riviera is comparable to the theme park view at BLT: A view of theme park fireworks. Epcot from Riviera and MK from BLT.

So taking today as an example... For 1 night,
Riviera preferred is 50 points
BLT theme park view is 48 points
Riviera Epcot view is 40 points.
BLT lake view is 39 points

So if you want a view of a theme park and fireworks, Riviera is a much cheaper point chart than BLT.

Meanwhile, AKL, BWV and BLT all have much smaller rooms than RIviera: You get what you pay for. Rooms that are "cheaper" (less points), are cheaper for a reason.

 

[Sandisw]

I couldn't disagree more. RIV 1BR is a cheaper point chart than GFV.

And about equivalent to BLT. Remember, the standard view at Riviera is comparable to the theme park view at BLT: A view of theme park fireworks. Epcot from Riviera and MK from BLT.

So taking today as an example... For 1 night,
Riviera preferred is 50 points
BLT theme park view is 48 points
Riviera Epcot view is 40 points.
BLT lake view is 39 points

So if you want a view of a theme park and fireworks, Riviera is a much cheaper point chart than BLT.

Meanwhile, AKL, BWV and BLT all have much smaller rooms than RIviera: You get what you pay for. Rooms that are "cheaper" (less points), are cheaper for a reason.

I am currently holding the same night at at both VGF and RIV for a 1 bedroom in early Feb. VGF is 10 more points for the two nights over RIV.

Having stayed in RIV 1 bedroom now and seeing test fireworks, it is well worth it. I came from a 1 bedroom at BLT and other than the 2nd bathroom, RIV was just as nice and spacious for the 4 of us.

So, you are right on target that RIV is on par with VGF and BLT for point costs. Whether someone views the location as equal is completely subjective.

 

[havoc315]

I am currently holding the same night at at both VGF and RIV for a 1 bedroom in early Feb. VGF is 10 more points for the two nights over RIV.

Having stayed in RIV 1 bedroom now and seeing test fireworks, it is well worth it. I came from a 1 bedroom at BLT and other than the 2nd bathroom, RIV was just as nice and spacious for the 4 of us.

So, you are right on target that RIV is on par with VGF and BLT for point costs. Whether someone views the location as equal is completely subjective.

Agreed. Location and view is both partially objective and partially subjective. BLT and GFV are both walkable to a park, Riviera is not -- that's objective. Whether one prefers being close to MK, or being close to both Epcot AND DHS, that's very subjective.
BLT theme park view and Riviera standard view both have views of theme parks and fireworks, that's an objective equivalence. Whether one prefers a distant view of the Epcot globe and EF/Harmonious, or whether one prefers a view of MK over a parking lot and Space Mountain, that's subjective. Obstructed views being inferior -- fairly objective. Though I guess there may be some people who like having a window covered by shrubbery or concrete.

As to the bathrooms.... BLT does have an extra toilet compared to RIV.That can be an advantage for some people. Though overall, I'd say RIV is the nicer and bigger total bathroom for 1 BR. The Riviera 1 BR bathroom is 2 rooms -- 2 vanities, 2 shower/tubs. But only 1 toilet.