Should churches change security in wake of recent events?

[IAHFTPT]

Shooter is Devin Patrick Kelly, age 26. Church members say he was an ex marine known to the congregation and was a recent convert to Islam. A "manifesto" he wrote is now appearing in social media.

Why did you change the picture?

 

[ronandannette]

all countries have their crime and issues, but America is the only one which has these type of mass shootings on a regular basis.

while I love my annual visits to USA and Disneyland, there is always the worry that I could be shot when walking down the street, or the the guy ahead of me in target could just pull out a gun if he has an issue with the cashier or that I go to a cinema , church, show, event or even just on the pier at Santa Monica and someone will start shooting. I dont have that fear in Ireland, UK or any other European country.

I don't have those fears at home in Canada, or while we travelled to Europe this past spring. But then again, I don't have them in the US either - the fear of gun violence is simply not seared into my psyche. Nor is the fear of any other type of violence, which I mostly attribute to living in relative safety and security. I jut don't think about it much at all. There are people who apparently fear for themselves when visiting Asia and the Caribbean because they've heard of tourists being targeted.

The fact is that none of us are immune to being hurt by a motivated crazy person. Guns exist in both Canada and Europe. Anyone wanting to get one for illegal purposes can. The (estimated) number of illicit guns in the hands of criminals here is truly mind-boggling. I don't pretend to know what the answer is but glib, imperious comments about how superior other parts of the world are in relation to their firearms policies make me uncomfortable.

 

[Domo]

I just read up on the news surrounding the Church shooting. I'm sorry you had to go through yet another shooting, America And especially soon after the last one.

 

[Domo]

all countries have their crime and issues, but America is the only one which has these type of mass shootings on a regular basis.

while I love my annual visits to USA and Disneyland, there is always the worry that I could be shot when walking down the street, or the the guy ahead of me in target could just pull out a gun if he has an issue with the cashier or that I go to a cinema , church, show, event or even just on the pier at Santa Monica and someone will start shooting. I dont have that fear in Ireland, UK or any other European country.

It's sad but I know what you mean. The only other place I feel so uneasy is in airports where there are armed police standing around sporting G36 rifles and dogs. I try to look innocent but worry that by doing so I just look shifty!

 

[wonder whisper]

No talk, but an interesting and accurate graphic that suggests the mere presence of firearms is not the issue.

 

[Domo]

In America, I actually feel just as safe in WDW as I do at home. It's silly, I know. But going through security is reassuring. Of course, I know it's not an infallible system, but it relaxes the mind

 

[Pacolovestacos]

Security guards at churches? No way, no how.

 

[Mizzoufan]

Why did you change the picture?

What was the original pic

 

[IAHFTPT]

What was the original pic

A much less "Islamic" looking one. But the new one fits the agenda it appears.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Why did you change the picture?

If his radicalization is pertinent to his frame of mind, then it should be discussed.

I'd be in favor of seeing both pictures. (Assuming there were at least two posted, given the commentary. I've seen two when doing a search.)

We have to stop this political correctness of not being able to discuss ANYTHING! (Speaking generally; not on this board.)

 

[wonder whisper]

Why did you change the picture?

Because the original one turned out to be unconfirmed (may be that of someone with a similar name or possibly an older picture of the perp at a younger age).

The updated one is confirmed and recent. And shows a beard, which is notable given emerging reports of him being a recent convert to Islam.

 

[bcla]

No talk, but an interesting and accurate graphic that suggests the mere presence of firearms is not the issue.

That's not accurate. It's closer to 1 in 4, and there are registration/permit requirements that aren't present in the United States. Buying ammunition apparently requires proof that one owns a weapon that can fire it, which I suppose is supposed to prevent straw purchases where someone might buy ammo for someone else to reduce suspicion if they're stockpiling it.

A private citizen would need a permit to carry legally. Military members can carry though.

 

[wgeo]

No talk, but an interesting and accurate graphic that suggests the mere presence of firearms is not the issue.

Your picture is an oversimplification of what is a vastly different situation in Switzerland, and according to the statistics I have found is not actually completely accurate. Not sure if we want to discuss why Switzerland's policies do/do not apply to America's situation in this thread or not. But a graphic with no factual information to support it doesn't help anyone come up with a solution to the current problems we are facing.

 

[jt'smom]

I don't know the answer, but I do know that my inlaws go to a very large, conservative church in a fairly good size city in the south. My FIL was an usher and a deacon prior to his Alzheimers diagnosis, and I remember a couple of years ago, he told us that their church had some type of law enforcement come in and give a talk about churches being soft terror targets. The end result was his church formed an armed group of men, who ringed the sanctuary during services for "protection". Now mind you, probably half the people in this church probably have guns in their purses on strapped on them, so it wasn't shocking that this was their plan. As far as I know, this has been standard procedure for the past couple of years, along with the ushers monitoring who comes in and approaching them to search them if they look "suspicious". My husband and I have joked a lot about this, because we can't imagine a more frightening and unsafe situation if someone started shooting during the morning service and 20 men whipped out various types of guns and rifles and started shooting at the shooter!

 

[bcla]

Security guards at churches? No way, no how.

Already there.

 

[monsterkitty]

We just had a shooting in a Walmart a few miles from my house. A 47-year-old man walked in, pulled a handgun and started shooting. 3 people, all Hispanic, were killed. I went to high school with the shooter and he was a person we always said we would read about in a not good way.

It took 5 hours for the police to put out a description of the shooter. Why? The police spokesman said they couldn't get a description out of the shooter because they had to go through the store surveillance video and clear each person who pulled a weapon when they heard the shots. They needed to view the video to make sure there was only one shooter. It took 5 hours to get the video and decipher from the video who the shooter was and who it wasn't.

The shooter was caught the next day a few blocks from our school.

The hate needs to stop.

 

[Hikergirl]

That's not accurate. It's closer to 1 in 4, and there are registration/permit requirements that aren't present in the United States. Buying ammunition apparently requires proof that one owns a weapon that can fire it, which I suppose is supposed to prevent straw purchases where someone might buy ammo for someone else to reduce suspicion if they're stockpiling it.

A private citizen would need a permit to carry legally. Military members can carry though.

I can't buy ammo for my dh's pistols, he has to show his permit, which lists his pistols on it. I can however purchase ammo for rifles and shotguns.

 

[wonder whisper]

A much less "Islamic" looking one. But the new one fits the agenda it appears.

The new one is confirmed. The prior one wasn't. And the media is already complicating things by engaging in knee jerk searches of Devin/Devon Patrick Kelly. One source said the shooter had a linkedIn profile. When you looked it up, it was some Principal at Deloitte who happened to be named Devin Kelly. I'm sure that Brooks Brothers suited executive is enjoying all the newfound attention he's getting.

 

[IAHFTPT]

The new one is confirmed. The prior one wasn't. And the media is already complicating things by engaging in knee jerk searches of Devin/Devon Patrick Kelly. One source said the shooter had a linkedIn profile. When you looked it up, it was some Principal at Deloitte who happened to be named Devin Kelly.

Okay, you have fun with this.

 

[Domo]

If I had my way, guns would be no more and the world would disarm completely. That's right up there with triple rainbows, flying pigs and leprechauns. Unfortunately.