Should buses be modified to take >2 scooters?

[DisneyOma]

Second, the ADA requires equal access for those with disabilities on public transportation. Disney meets this legal requirement by reserving two spots on the buses for the disabled. If you look on the bus windows above these two spaces there is a wheelchair symbol above them stating that these spots are reserved for the disabled. It’s like handicapped parking on the bus, the exception being if there are no disabled persons needing these spots, anyone can sit there. No matter when the wheelchair user arrives at the bus stop, they are legally entitled to one of those 2 spots.

Since there are only two places a disabled person can sit on a Disney bus, be assured that over the course of a day, the disabled wait longer for transportation than everyone else. I understand that after a long day, people get frustrated waiting for a space on the bus. Please don’t resent the disabled for taking a little longer to board the bus and be tied down in one of their two available seats on any bus. If it makes you feel any better, we are the last allowed to leave the bus.

Sometimes a driver of an ECV honks because they are afraid no one sees them, as people step out in front of them all day long. And sometimes people being people, the ECV driver may just be a jerk. The able bodied members of my family have had the same problem with being run into by strollers. Wheeled vehicles and walking pedestrians can be tough to navigate. Especially at a place like Disney World where there are large crowds, excited children and so many distractions while we are all trying to share the same space.

I’m sorry that you’ve had some bad experiences with ECVs. Please don’t judge all of us by the few jerks in our midst. Most of us are just trying to make it work in a world not really built for the disabled.

Could you please link the part of ADA that states people in ECVs have to be loaded first? Especially the part that states that no matter when they show up, they get those spots? I've read a lot of the ADA, and I've never found that section.

 

[Lilsia]

ECVs are not all built the same.

You are right in that we all need to be more patient using the buses. But I can't begin to tell you how offensive it is that you had to throw in that rude comment about obese people taking up space. Maybe you need to be more patient with everyone, not matter what shape or size.

My point was that some ECV riding people here are complaining that they can not get on the first bus, well that is true for walking people too. And 2 people(obese or not) taking up 10 seats is offensive.

 

[Lilsia]

Could you please link the part of ADA that states people in ECVs have to be loaded first? Especially the part that states that no matter when they show up, they get those spots? I've read a lot of the ADA, and I've never found that section.

It does not say that. Disney does it for easy and safety. It is much easier to get the ECVs on the bus when there are little to no people on but they will still load and move others from the seat if they have to. So if there is space for the chair/ECV, they will load them so they do not run into the problem of them backing up at the bus stops, like the OP was complaining about.

 

[lanejudy]

While ECVs may fit the same footprint as a wheelchair, they are very different for stability. ECVs generally have a higher center of gravity, add a person sitting on it and that center is even higher. Put that on a moving vehicle, and yes it can tip. The recommended safety measure is to transfer off an ECV. Many drivers don’t enforce that, but it is safer.

Buses must transport mobility equipment that falls within ADA standards. The mobility equipment takes space. I’ve seen plenty of massive strollers, large packs or multiple bags taking space where another person could sit or stand. It’s all allowed. People come in all sizes, with or without mobility equipment or other “stuff.”

Let’s keep this discussion civil and without judging others.

 

[DisneyOma]

Buses must transport mobility equipment that falls within ADA standards. The mobility equipment takes space. I’ve seen plenty of massive strollers, large packs or multiple bags taking space where another person could sit or stand. It’s all allowed. People come in all sizes, with or without mobility equipment or other “stuff.”

Let’s keep this discussion civil and without judging others.

I'd forgotten about those huge strollers people bring on the buses - you're right, they take up a lot of space as well. Not so much those bags though, as they can be kept in a lap. No bags should be on a seat! I've asked a person if a bag belonged to them, and asked them to move it so I could sit down

 

[ttintagel]

Could you please link the part of ADA that states people in ECVs have to be loaded first?

It would be pretty impractical to load an ECV into a bus with its deck full of people's feet.

 

[Lilsia]

While ECVs may fit the same footprint as a wheelchair, they are very different for stability. ECVs generally have a higher center of gravity, add a person sitting on it and that center is even higher. Put that on a moving vehicle, and yes it can tip. The recommended safety measure is to transfer off an ECV. Many drivers don’t enforce that, but it is safer.

Buses must transport mobility equipment that falls within ADA standards. The mobility equipment takes space. I’ve seen plenty of massive strollers, large packs or multiple bags taking space where another person could sit or stand. It’s all allowed. People come in all sizes, with or without mobility equipment or other “stuff.”

Let’s keep this discussion civil and without judging others.

All of this is true. But at WDW, it is impractical for them to have a bus fit more then the 3 that some of their buses already have. The time alone that it would take to load/unload would back up the bus stops. I am sorry if someone riding in a ECV has to wait for the next bus. I am also sorry for those families who have waited a long time for the bus to not be able to get on it because there was no space due to ECVs that just rolled up and got right on. You see the point that I am trying to make. Most people have had to wait at one point or another either due to busy times, 3 ECVs and their huge families getting on first, they stopped at other bus stops, etc. No I don't think that they will ever have the bus hold more then the 2/3 then they already do. It would take too long and mess up the bus schedules.

 

[lanejudy]

You see the point that I am trying to make.

I think the point you are trying to make is what someone else mentioned upthread:

I like how the ECVs and wheelchairs stay in the queue at MK until they reach a certain access point. But they only do this at really busy times.

I agree this would be ideal at all bus stops, though without revamping many I don't see it happening. I do know that many ECV or wheelchair users will hang-back if they approach when a long line is waiting to board, but not everyone is so considerate. Unfortunately, the world comes with all kinds -- considerate people with mobility devices, considerate people without mobility devices, inconsiderate people with mobility devices and inconsiderate people without mobility devices.

If you've scheduled yourself so tightly that a couple extra minutes to load a bus causes you to be late -- you didn't allow yourself enough time to begin with because any number of things may occur causing delay. Let's all try to be considerate of others.

 

[bushdianee]

I am an ECV user and I agree that an ECV user shouldn't be able to roll up and get on a bus if there has been a line of people who have been waiting for a while. It is too bad that there couldn't be a CM who could mark a time or spot in the line where the ECV would be in the line. This wouldn't be practical for a short line because there might be room for an ECV but if the ECV comes up and there are already enough people in line to fill a bus the ECV waits. I've stayed on the ECV a couple of times and believe me I've been afraid of falling off the entire ride they move around and sway with turns.

 

[maxiesmom]

I am an ECV user and I agree that an ECV user shouldn't be able to roll up and get on a bus if there has been a line of people who have been waiting for a while. It is too bad that there couldn't be a CM who could mark a time or spot in the line where the ECV would be in the line. This wouldn't be practical for a short line because there might be room for an ECV but if the ECV comes up and there are already enough people in line to fill a bus the ECV waits. I've stayed on the ECV a couple of times and believe me I've been afraid of falling off the entire ride they move around and sway with turns.

I think in part Disney puts ECVs on to be proactive. I've seen buses show up that couldn't kneel, or the lift didn't work. Disney doesn't want there to be a line of ECVs waiting to get back. They don't want to deal with nasty phone calls from guests who watched a bus that could have accommodated them leave, and they end up stuck.

Also there is the whole it is much easier to load an ECV with no or few guests on the bus. Less toes to run over, less legs to knock into, and less people to try and get to move out of the seats marked off for ECV use.

 

[MulanMom]

All of this is true. But at WDW, it is impractical for them to have a bus fit more then the 3 that some of their buses already have. The time alone that it would take to load/unload would back up the bus stops. I am sorry if someone riding in a ECV has to wait for the next bus. I am also sorry for those families who have waited a long time for the bus to not be able to get on it because there was no space due to ECVs that just rolled up and got right on. You see the point that I am trying to make. Most people have had to wait at one point or another either due to busy times, 3 ECVs and their huge families getting on first, they stopped at other bus stops, etc. No I don't think that they will ever have the bus hold more then the 2/3 then they already do. It would take too long and mess up the bus schedules.

My husband uses an ECV due to a neuromuscular disease. One of the first times he was using an ECV, a bus pulled up just as he went in line. The bus driver acted like she didn't see him. At that time, my DD and myself got at the end of the line just to see if we would make it. We got on the bus. My husband didn't.
He's got 2 chances to get on a bus. He doesn't have the choice to sit or stand. For as many times as he's pulled up when a bus has arrived, there have been experiences where we've waited because 2 ECVs were already on the bus. Usually when it happens that we load before people in line, my kids as well as myself give up our seats for others. We also tend to avoid rope drop and trying to get on the bus during the rush when parks close. But sometimes it can't be helped. Disney is wonderfully accommodating for those with disabilities. But, unfortunately, it's the attitude and reaction of other guests, and sometimes cast members, that makes it challenging. It's so palpable and noticeable, that my children picked up on it from an early age.

Ironically, when my husband and I first went to WDW before kids and before ECVs, our schedule was so jam-packed and tight, we would be disappointed if an ECV had to board a bus we were on and slowed us down. Funny how life puts you in other people's shoes so you experience life as they do.

This message is not written to be argumentative and is not in anger. Just trying to share another point of view. BTW, my husband often says he would love to once again be able to have good legs to stand in line for the bus.

 

[serenitynow]

My husband uses an ECV due to a neuromuscular disease. One of the first times he was using an ECV, a bus pulled up just as he went in line. The bus driver acted like she didn't see him. At that time, my DD and myself got at the end of the line just to see if we would make it. We got on the bus. My husband didn't.
He's got 2 chances to get on a bus. He doesn't have the choice to sit or stand. For as many times as he's pulled up when a bus has arrived, there have been experiences where we've waited because 2 ECVs were already on the bus. Usually when it happens that we load before people in line, my kids as well as myself give up our seats for others. We also tend to avoid rope drop and trying to get on the bus during the rush when parks close. But sometimes it can't be helped. Disney is wonderfully accommodating for those with disabilities. But, unfortunately, it's the attitude and reaction of other guests, and sometimes cast members, that makes it challenging. It's so palpable and noticeable, that my children picked up on it from an early age.

Ironically, when my husband and I first went to WDW before kids and before ECVs, our schedule was so jam-packed and tight, we would be disappointed if an ECV had to board a bus we were on and slowed us down. Funny how life puts you in other people's shoes so you experience life as they do.

This message is not written to be argumentative and is not in anger. Just trying to share another point of view. BTW, my husband often says he would love to once again be able to have good legs to stand in line for the bus.

Bless you.

 

[fabfemmeboy]

Also FWIW, in every city I've been to in the US, the max number of wheelchairs/ECVs that a single public bus can accommodate is 2. Yes, it's frustrating to have to wait, but there are only so many options as far as space goes...and if they were to decide to fit 3-4 ECVs on a Disney bus, that would cut down the total number of passengers by more than 2/3. It's a balancing act with no perfect solution, but Disney is certainly not behind the curve in this regard.

 

[Talking Hands]

I dislike going through the regular line at MK. One reason is I have other issue that make me panic when I am closed in. Second, my controller is on the left and people often hit it making the wheelchair turn. it is impractical to turn it on and of in line. Finally, by putting you in the regular line and then pulling you off at a particular spot it guarantees you will not be loaded on that bus but will wait for a second bus even if you would have gotten a seat had you not been in a mobility device. THAT IS NOT EQUAL ACCCESS! I do not mind waiting for a second bus if there are people already waiting before me but for my and your safety I do not want to wait in that standard line.

I think the point you are trying to make is what someone else mentioned upthread:


I agree this would be ideal at all bus stops, though without revamping many I don't see it happening. I do know that many ECV or wheelchair users will hang-back if they approach when a long line is waiting to board, but not everyone is so considerate. Unfortunately, the world comes with all kinds -- considerate people with mobility devices, considerate people without mobility devices, inconsiderate people with mobility devices and inconsiderate people without mobility devices.

If you've scheduled yourself so tightly that a couple extra minutes to load a bus causes you to be late -- you didn't allow yourself enough time to begin with because any number of things may occur causing delay. Let's all try to be considerate of others.

 

[Talking Hands]

What is offensive about that? We take up the space allotted to us. on top of that I find that those with large stroller will place their stroller in that space with my power wheelchair and leave it to fall on me. My powered chair does not need to same space as an ECV. The max number of people with me is 4 but usually it is only me and my hubby who needs to sit as he is living with a heart that works at less than 20% capacity. And I remain in my wheelchair

My point was that some ECV riding people here are complaining that they can not get on the first bus, well that is true for walking people too. And 2 people(obese or not) taking up 10 seats is offensive.

 

[Lilsia]

What is offensive about that? We take up the space allotted to us. on top of that I find that those with large stroller will place their stroller in that space with my power wheelchair and leave it to fall on me. My powered chair does not need to same space as an ECV. The max number of people with me is 4 but usually it is only me and my hubby who needs to sit as he is living with a heart that works at less than 20% capacity. And I remain in my wheelchair

Using your allotted spots is just fine and as you say, you and many others stay in their chair. But to use the spots and then get out and take up 4 more seats for just 2 people is rude. It is just are rude as someone's stroller hitting you or someone who puts their bags on the seat or someone who keeps letting their kid kick you the whole ride. We should all do what we can to minimize our impact on others, help those who truly need it, but also be aware that nobody owes any of us anything. We all have issues.

 

[maxiesmom]

Using your allotted spots is just fine and as you say, you and many others stay in their chair. But to use the spots and then get out and take up 4 more seats for just 2 people is rude. It is just are rude as someone's stroller hitting you or someone who puts their bags on the seat or someone who keeps letting their kid kick you the whole ride. We should all do what we can to minimize our impact on others, help those who truly need it, but also be aware that nobody owes any of us anything. We all have issues.

Again they are supposed to move to a bus seat. The only one being rude here is you.

 

[Lilsia]

Again they are supposed to move to a bus seat. The only one being rude here is you.

That is not true. I just back from a 2 week trip and saw many people stay in their ECV seats and the driver belted them in. Of course you can get out if you want but if the bus is packed it would be a courteous thing to do to stay in your ECV and leave that seat for others. And just because I don't have an entitled attitude thinking that just because someone has issues(news flash, most of us do) that the world should cater to them and that those people should also not be considerate of others, that I am rude. It is rude to inconvenience others and society in general. Look at the Japanese culture, they are very considerate of others and help those who need it but everyone does what they can do to not be a burden on others. Your problem is not everyone else's problem. I am very considerate of others and have many times given up my seat, held open doors, let others pass me, etc. Much more then I have ever witnessed from others. But I don't believe that someone should expect this kind of behavior. I take exception with some of the attitudes that just because they are or have a family member that has illness/disability/medical issues, that they somehow deserve better treatment because "their life is hard enough". Which is sentiment they you see on these forums a lot as an justification of why they need better accommodations. The fact of the matter is that WDW is busy, there are hundreds of thousands of people there at any given time. You will need to wait for the second bus sometimes. This is not limited to those in mobility devices.

 

[lanejudy]

saw many people stay in their ECV seats and the driver belted them in. Of course you can get out if you want but if the bus is packed it would be a courteous thing to do to stay in your ECV and leave that seat for others.

It has nothing to do with being inconsiderate or discourteous.

The standard safety recommendation is for a person with an ECV to transfer to a regular seat. As has been pointed out previously in this thread, ECVs can tip, even when tied down. They are top-heavy. They are not designed to be utilized as a seat during transportation. Some guests opt to remain seated on the ECV and many (most) drivers will allow them to be belted in rather than argue. That doesn't make others discourteous for following the recommended safety guidelines.

 

[Lilsia]

It has nothing to do with being inconsiderate or discourteous.

The standard safety recommendation is for a person with an ECV to transfer to a regular seat. As has been pointed out previously in this thread, ECVs can tip, even when tied down. They are top-heavy. They are not designed to be utilized as a seat during transportation. Some guests opt to remain seated on the ECV and many (most) drivers will allow them to be belted in rather than argue. That doesn't make others discourteous for following the recommended safety guidelines.

That's fine if someone does not feel safe. They should not tip over if they are properly secured. Maybe they need a different/better method of securing the ECV or chair if this happening. After all anyone on the bus can get hurt if the ECV is becoming loose during the ride.