Shooting with Light behind Subject

[PoohJen]

Hi Everyone!

Looking at some old pics from my last Disney cruise. There were a few pictures taken inside, in front of a giant porthole, daylight coming from outside the porthole. Some of these pics came out ok, others the subject is completely dark.

Similarly, some pictures taken on the veranda or prominade deck (where there is a "ceiling" above) with the sea/daylight in the background, came out with the subject in shadow.

I know, pretty basic photography lesson but...what is the best setting (Rebel XT) for this type of picture? I have an additional flash, but rarely carry it around, so I'd like to avoid relying on that.

TIA!

 

[Nikel]

You'd want to shoot in manual. Either choose a metering mode that will let you meter off the faces or zoom in/move closer to fill the frame with the subject. Get you meter reading and set your exposure. Now recompose and take the picture, ignoring the camera telling you that your settings are wrong. Or use some fill flash.

 

[Geoff_M]

Since I don't think the Rebel has a spot meter included on that model, the best options would probably be either:

1) Zoom/move in so the subject mostly fills the frame, note the metering (*)... and then back up/zoom out, flip the camera to "manual" and match those settings.

* = or if your camera has an exposure lock, press the lock and then re-compose the image.

or

2) Use a flash to kick some light into the subjects' faces.

 

[deletedpenguin]

Fill flash is really your best bet, but otherwise you can purposely underexpose the pictures a bit and adjust them in photoshop after you're home. Check out this article:

http://planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/2-flash-ambient-light/

 

[deletedpenguin]

Wow, three responses at a time. Nice work guys!

 

[MICKEY88]

Fill flash is really your best bet, but otherwise you can purposely underexpose the pictures a bit and adjust them in photoshop after you're home. Check out this article:

http://planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/2-flash-ambient-light/

you lost me with this one,, the subject is already underexposed, why would you further underexpose them..??

 

[MICKEY88]

another option if your camera has an exposure compensatin setting, set it to +1 or +2 depending on how bright the background lite is, this forces the camera to give more exposure which will lighten the main subject..

 

[deletedpenguin]

you lost me with this one,, the subject is already underexposed, why would you further underexpose them..??

If you meter off the subject, not outdoors, the subject will be a bit underexposed but you may get some detail back from behind them and then adjust the curve and fill light in photoshop. This is only helpful if they're worried about the background being blown out. If they're not worried about that, then it doesn't matter.

From the link posted above:

"What you’d encounter is low light situations where the background and your subject have about the same kind of light on them, and would need the same exposure. So what you’d do here, is intentionally under-expose for the ambient light - around 1.5 to 2 stops - so that the ambient light registers, but doesn’t dominate. Since your subject would then still be under-exposed, you would then use your flash to expose correctly for your subject."

The original poster doesn't want to use a flash if possible, so if you adjust the shadows/fill light in photoshop in post, you'll at least get some detail back without having to use a fill flash. It's not the best case scenario, as you'll pull out grain from the photo, but it's an alternative to using a flash.

 

[MICKEY88]

If you meter off the subject, not outdoors, the subject will be a bit underexposed but you may get some detail back from behind them and then adjust the curve and fill light in photoshop. This is only helpful if they're worried about the background being blown out. If they're not worried about that, then it doesn't matter.

From the link posted above:

"What you’d encounter is low light situations where the background and your subject have about the same kind of light on them, and would need the same exposure. So what you’d do here, is intentionally under-expose for the ambient light - around 1.5 to 2 stops - so that the ambient light registers, but doesn’t dominate. Since your subject would then still be under-exposed, you would then use your flash to expose correctly for your subject."

The original poster doesn't want to use a flash if possible, so if you adjust the shadows/fill light in photoshop in post, you'll at least get some detail back without having to use a fill flash. It's not the best case scenario, as you'll pull out grain from the photo, but it's an alternative to using a flash.

I understand the first part, that's the whole idea of good fill flash

I took the OP's concern to be, getting the main subject exposed properly...

I'd personally rather get a good exposure on my main subject and edit the background, rather than the other way around,

 

[Master Mason]

I'd personally rather get a good exposure on my main subject and edit the background, rather than the other way around,

the only problem with that with back light is you'll probably blow all your highlights in the background

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I think it would help to make it clear why the pictures are coming out the way they are. In backlit situations, there is usually a large difference in the brightness between the subject and background. You camera cannot expose both of them optimally. Instead, it guesses. If it guesses that your subject should be exposed optimally, the background will be bright. If it guesses that your background is the subject, your subject will be dark.

As has been mentioned above, there are several ways of dealing with the problem. The best from an appearance standpoint is usually to add more light to your subject so that the difference in brightness between your subject and the background is smaller. You usually do that with a flash, although you could use lights, reflectors, or whatever else makes your subject brighter.

Failing that, you can take more control over how the camera meters. In center-weighted metering mode, your camera will assume that your subject is in the middle of the frame and will try harder to get the exposure right for whatever is in the center of the frame.

Even better would be to switch to spot or partial metering. Both meter off of the the the center of your frame. Spot uses a very small spot and partial uses a somewhat larger circle. They work like center-weighted except that they ignore everything except the bit they are metering on whereas center-weighted considers everything but puts the emphasis on what is in the middle. In either case, you'll be able to get a good exposure for your subject, but your background will probably be too bright.

You can take a hybrid approach by metering off of your subject and then using exposure compensation to tell the camera that you want to underexpose the picture a bit. That will make your subject a little on the dark side (but probably correctable in Photoshop) and will help keep your background from being too bright. How well that will work depends on how big of a difference there is between the darkness of your subject and the brightness of the background.

Of course, you also have the option of changing the composition. You can move your subject out of the shadows. You can move your subject so that the background isn't so bright. You can zoom in tighter on your subject so that there is less background to worry about. None of those work if what you really want is that subject in that spot with that background and nothing else will do. In that case, you're stuck with either brightening your subject or guessing at the exposure and fixing it the best you can in Photoshop.

Sometimes when I'm in that situation, I do what's called bracketing. I'll take several shots (usually three) with different exposures. Then I can look at them when I get home and decide which one I want to keep.

 

[Nikel]

the only problem with that with back light is you'll probably blow all your highlights in the background

True. If that matters to you, then you'll want to use fill flash or shoot 2 exposures (1 for subject, 1 for background) and combine in post processing. I personally wouldn't choose to underexpose the subject and fix in processing. I prefer a blown background to noise/grain on people (with rare exceptions, and only in b&w). Others will have other preferences.

 

[MICKEY88]

the only problem with that with back light is you'll probably blow all your highlights in the background

I understand that completely, but as I said, my main subject is the important part to me, and even with a blown out background you can select and recover some detail in post processing...


another option is to shoot with a sony dslr with it's dynamic range optimizer, which will process to avoid losing detail in highlight or shadow areas...

one feature that people rarely mention with sony..

 

[deletedpenguin]

I understand that completely, but as I said, my main subject is the important part to me, and even with a blown out background you can select and recover some detail in post processing...


another option is to shoot with a sony dslr with it's dynamic range optimizer, which will process to avoid losing detail in highlight or shadow areas...

one feature that people rarely mention with sony..

Just remember, that although black is the absence of color, and white is just the opposite, it's easier to get more information from a picture that's a bit too dark rather than blown out. Granted, this is only true down to a certain extent, it holds true for the majority of underexposed photographs, and by no means do I condone this process to an extreme.

 

[MICKEY88]

Just remember, that although black is the absence of color, and white is just the opposite, it's easier to get more information from a picture that's a bit too dark rather than blown out. Granted, this is only true down to a certain extent, it holds true for the majority of underexposed photographs, and by no means do I condone this process to an extreme.

again, I understand that, but I'll shoot for my main subject being properly exposed, especially in the scenarios given by the OP, get the main subject right and with paint shop pro put a lovely blue and white sky in the porthole..
easiest fix possible,,, I take sky shots all the time just so I have one of a good density when I need it..

 

[deletedpenguin]

I think we're agreeing on what to do, but our post processing is for different results.

I think the issue the original poster is having is that they're metering off the background sometimes and other times they're metering off the subject (the shots that come out right). I am not entirely sure if they want the background to come out at all.

 

[jann1033]

Jen, canon recommends using the partial metering mode for backlit objects. that basically uses the center to meter with so if you'd put that area ie the center af block in the view finder over your object i would think that would expose that ...i do wonder, not having tried it, what would happen if you set your exposure for 1 line under then used partial..would it slightly underexpose the background so it wouldn't be washed out and you could adjust as needed in photoshop? not sure never having tried it....personally i use partial all the time anyway so i can meter off the grass or sky or whatever easier. i think partial uses 9% rather than spot which is like 2-3% so not a whole lot different

 

[Dewayne]

Having light behind the subject creates beautiful depth. If you can have light in front as well than it makes it all that much more real.