Service Dogs (found one rule that looked suspicious, not at any Disney park)

[NightGuardianAngel]

I, myself, do not currently have a service dog (I do have a disability though) and i love to travel and canp out in my travel trailer. i was checking out a zoo (Sunset Zoo in Manhattan Kansas) and this rule really threw a red flag in regards to the ADA (suspect rule is in bold).

Here it is:

Service animals are welcome at Sunset Zoo and we appreciate any advance notice, but it is not required. All service animals must be certified, easily identified by their vests, and remain on a secure lead.

I called to ask if a guest has a bona fide task trained service dog, are they required to wear a vest? and she said yes and I told her that it is illegal to require a vest on a service dog and she also said it is required paperwork as well, I told her that is illegal. She did not care and to he, this felt horrible because there are many people that rely on service dogs for disabilities or medical conditions and not having their service dog to many can result in death or serious injury.

They legally can only ask

Is this dog a service animal required for a disability or medical condition?

What work or tasks is the dog trained to perform?

How does anybody else feel about this?

 

[Karin1984]

I do not have a service dog, but I think you would want a vest, because it is the dog's uniform. It shows that they are at work, and therefore shouldn't be pet or cuddled by strangers. It helps the staff and other visitors to identify what is going on.

As I understand it, service dogs and their certificates are not regulated in the US, right? If you can get a bonafide service dog, then getting a bonafide vest shouldn't be that hard to get either, probably for a few dollars on etsy or make it yourself.

It might not be allowed but in my opinion it would be better if they did.

I am curious that you find the vest more important than the paperwork.

 

[Tink-osophy]

The problem with all these systems is that you're trying to create a balance to look after the needs of everyone. Genuine service dogs are a very positive part of that balance, but people pretending their pets are service dogs (for their own selfish convenience) upsets that balance. So, it seems reasonable to me that some kinds of regulations and requirements are enforced.

 

[mjkacmom]

I think they should change the rules and folks with service dogs should need to provide proof, so that those with fake service dogs or emotional support animals don’t pretend to have real service dogs.

 

[OneOftheB's]

I can see where someone would throw in the vest requirement. From all that I've read and witnessed, many service dogs are trained that when the vest is on they are working, when it's off they can be less focused/"off the job." I'm certain that isn't the case for all service dogs (medical alert dogs being one that comes to mind because they are never "off") but dogs trained to assist with mobility, tasks or as guide dogs have some pretty intense jobs then periods when they can relax.

Personally, I would be in favor of a basic standard of certification (like the Canine Good Citizen test) for all service dogs. A trained dog should be able to pass that threshold easily and it would screen out a bunch of the terrible actors that cause legitimate dogs to either lose focus or worse. I read stories of healthy, young dogs having to be retired early due to being attacked by dogs that had no business being in public situations.

 

[Orion Nebula]

I, myself, do not currently have a service dog (I do have a disability though) and i love to travel and canp out in my travel trailer. i was checking out a zoo (Sunset Zoo in Manhattan Kansas) and this rule really threw a red flag in regards to the ADA (suspect rule is in bold).

Here it is:

Service animals are welcome at Sunset Zoo and we appreciate any advance notice, but it is not required. All service animals must be certified, easily identified by their vests, and remain on a secure lead.

I called to ask if a guest has a bona fide task trained service dog, are they required to wear a vest? and she said yes and I told her that it is illegal to require a vest on a service dog and she also said it is required paperwork as well, I told her that is illegal. She did not care and to he, this felt horrible because there are many people that rely on service dogs for disabilities or medical conditions and not having their service dog to many can result in death or serious injury.

They legally can only ask

Is this dog a service animal required for a disability or medical condition?

What work or tasks is the dog trained to perform?

How does anybody else feel about this?

Personally I feel like all service animals should be trained, certified and have clear identification. But that's obviously just my opinion. In regards to the ADA though you are correct. Zoo's are not protected from getting around guidelines (outside of some area restrictions), so from your standpoint I get why it's frustrating. As this place came up with their own requirements and is like "oh well, too bad for you".

At this point I would call back and instead of saying it's "illegal" I would ask if they follow federal guild lines. That usually carries more weight in these situations. That way they will have to either say "yes or no". I wouldn't doubt the person just repeats what they said already, but I would just add "because I will need to contact the U.S. Department of Justice". Which is what you are supposed to do when you run into these types of issues.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Funny enough, if anyone ever litigates this in front of a jury, seeing the responses above, I suspect the zoo would win and it would become the new required federal policy, at least in that district. So, that may be why no one's doing anything about the zoo policy.

 

[kdonnel]

Businesses have been put in a crappy situation by the people who insist on taking their pets with them everywhere.

I don't think those with service animals should be questioned in anyway but I also think the idiots with their pets should be kicked out of the business.

I don't see how a business owner can do both.

 

[Orion Nebula]

Funny enough, if anyone ever litigates this in front of a jury, seeing the responses above, I suspect the zoo would win and it would become the new required federal policy, at least in that district. So, that may be why no one's doing anything about the zoo policy.

I didn't say it would work, I just said that's the process when an entity violates ADA guidelines. But Sunset zoo does mention service animals on their website as "defined under federal & state guidelines" so it makes me curious on how they allowed to skirt them. Maybe they have some type of exceptions? I don't know, OP seems pretty irritated by it but it's obviously up to them if they proceed with anything else, futile or not. /shrug

 

[kdonnel]

I could see a zoo needing to ensure that any animals brought to the zoo will not create an unsafe situation for any of the guests.

If the ADA does not have carve outs for specific situations where a service animal could make a situation dangerous, it should.

 

[Kestryl]

I know of at least two zoos that require check-in for service animals and issue bandanas for the animals to wear. I’m not sure on the legality of that or if anyone has pushed back on it.

There was an incident at a zoo we were visiting about a month ago. Someone had a non-vested dog (I am unsure on their status) that ran up to the fenced barrier to a pack of wolves and started barking. Which of course whipped the wolves into a frenzy. An employee escorted the group with the dog away. The guy holding the dog’s leash was pretty combative about the whole thing.

 

[BrianL]

I know of at least two zoos that require check-in for service animals and issue bandanas for the animals to wear. I’m not sure on the legality of that or if anyone has pushed back on it.

There was an incident at a zoo we were visiting about a month ago. Someone had a non-vested dog (I am unsure on their status) that ran up to the fenced barrier to a pack of wolves and started barking. Which of course whipped the wolves into a frenzy. An employee escorted the group with the dog away. The guy holding the dog’s leash was pretty combative about the whole thing.

Yes, the potential for a bad interaction amongst animals is a concern for zoos. A dog, especially an untrained one, could get into an enclosure, which would just lead to bad results.

 

[bcla]

I could see a zoo needing to ensure that any animals brought to the zoo will not create an unsafe situation for any of the guests.

If the ADA does not have carve outs for specific situations where a service animal could make a situation dangerous, it should.

This is a specific interpretation where there might be an exception to a requirement to allow them if it might negatively affect others or be a specific problem. Zoos are specifically mentioned as a place where it might negatively affect the experience for everyone.

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.pdf​

When might a service dog’s presence fundamentally alter the nature of a service or program provided to the public?​

A: In most settings, the presence of a service animal will not result in a fundamental alteration. However, there are some exceptions. For example, at a boarding school, service animals could be restricted from a specific area of a dormitory reserved specifically for students with allergies to dog dander. At a zoo, service animals can be restricted from areas where the animals on display are the natural prey or natural predators of dogs, where the presence of a dog would be disruptive, causing the displayed animals to behave aggressively or become agitated. They cannot be restricted from other areas of the zoo.​

I don't believe the thing about vests can't be required is specific language in the law or any regulations from the law. It might be tricky if a vest can't be required by a specific business in order to accept a service dog. The law says nothing about it, but the guidance from the DoJ mentions it.

 

[Dan Murphy]

I think all service dogs I have seen have had service dog vests on.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I know of at least two zoos that require check-in for service animals and issue bandanas for the animals to wear. I’m not sure on the legality of that or if anyone has pushed back on it.

There was an incident at a zoo we were visiting about a month ago. Someone had a non-vested dog (I am unsure on their status) that ran up to the fenced barrier to a pack of wolves and started barking. Which of course whipped the wolves into a frenzy. An employee escorted the group with the dog away. The guy holding the dog’s leash was pretty combative about the whole thing.

That is very suspect. Dogs who are properly trained to be service dogs spend years becoming immune to distractions. The guy’s response also seems suspect.

I was in a supermarket recently. There was a very small girl walking around with one of the biggest pit bulls I’ve ever seen. Not shopping, just walking. I really got the sense that if things went bad, she would have difficulty controlling that dog. I steered clear.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I, myself, do not currently have a service dog (I do have a disability though) and i love to travel and canp out in my travel trailer. i was checking out a zoo (Sunset Zoo in Manhattan Kansas) and this rule really threw a red flag in regards to the ADA (suspect rule is in bold).

Here it is:

Service animals are welcome at Sunset Zoo and we appreciate any advance notice, but it is not required. All service animals must be certified, easily identified by their vests, and remain on a secure lead.

I called to ask if a guest has a bona fide task trained service dog, are they required to wear a vest? and she said yes and I told her that it is illegal to require a vest on a service dog and she also said it is required paperwork as well, I told her that is illegal. She did not care and to he, this felt horrible because there are many people that rely on service dogs for disabilities or medical conditions and not having their service dog to many can result in death or serious injury.

They legally can only ask

Is this dog a service animal required for a disability or medical condition?

What work or tasks is the dog trained to perform?

How does anybody else feel about this?

When I go to their website under Rules and Regulations this is what I see:
"No Pets or Companion Animals; Service Animals are Permitted
Pets present health, safety, and quarantine issues for Zoo animals, and therefor are not allowed on Zoo grounds, including the parking lot and inside parked cars. Trained service animals, as defined under applicable federal and state laws, are permitted, however some exhibit areas may be restricted if the presence of the service animal creates a safety hazard or a fundamental alteration to the exhibit. Guests with service animals should notify Guest Services staff upon arrival. We ask that service animals remain on a lead under their owner's control."

I do see the confusion because under Guest Services it does say:
"Service Animals
Service animals are welcome at Sunset Zoo and we appreciate any advance notice, but it is not required. All service animals must be certified, easily identified by their vests and remain on a secure lead."

For one under the Rules and Regulations they mention that someone should notify guest services when they get there but under Guest Services they mention that is appreciated to notify in advance but not required. Two under Rules and Regulations there is no mention of vests but under Guest Services they do. If I had to guess they were not written by the same person.

The vest does not define a service animal under ADA you're correct on that. There are however exceptions to physical presence of a service animal in ADA and the zoo does call attention to that, due to the nature of the business, an animal (even though it's a service one) may present a safety hazard. Perhaps reach out via FB to the zoo about the two conflicting information with sending them the wording of both.

 

[NightGuardianAngel]

I do not have a service dog, but I think you would want a vest, because it is the dog's uniform. It shows that they are at work, and therefore shouldn't be pet or cuddled by strangers. It helps the staff and other visitors to identify what is going on.

As I understand it, service dogs and their certificates are not regulated in the US, right? If you can get a bonafide service dog, then getting a bonafide vest shouldn't be that hard to get either, probably for a few dollars on etsy or make it yourself.

It might not be allowed but in my opinion it would be better if they did.

I am curious that you find the vest more important than the paperwork.

To be honest, some service dogs may be distracted or bothered by the vest and plus the vest may be too hot for them during the summer. There is no official service dog registry in the United States. The service dog registries you see online are scams and to be honest, anybody can "register" any dog online at these sites. Plus, anybody can buy documentation, ID tags, vests, and even badges online as well too and put it on any dog. It is not these items that qualify a dog as a service dogs, it is the extensive training that it receives and the way the dog behaves in public. Training a dog to be a service dog to ADA standards and requirements can take at least three or even more years.

Emotional Support Dogs and Therapy Dogs are not service dogs under the ADA and therefore are not allowed access in places that are open to the public where pets are not allowed. Emotional support dogs are dogs that are meant to be kept at home and are there for comfort and companionship due to a mental health condition and do not require any training. The only place they are required to be allowed by law is in housing units that are covered under the Fair Housing Act (does not apply to hotels, motels, and resorts) that pets are not allowed upon presentation of a note from a doctor.

Therapy Dogs are dogs used in a nursing home, schools, hospitals, or a group home to provide comfort to a group of people rather than just their handler. These dogs are not service dogs and do not have access rights like emotional support dogs do not.

 

[lanejudy]

I told her that it is illegal to require a vest on a service dog and she also said it is required paperwork as well, I told her that is illegal.

I don't know if it's as much "illegal" to require either a vest or paperwork, as much as neither is required to be legally recognized as a service animal. My take is that it's a poorly worded website and the employee you spoke with may be untrained or poorly trained on the specifics if that is typically handled in person on arrival.

The vest...that may be what this zoo requires to identify a service dog due to the nature of being around animals. It would be interesting to know how they communicate restricted areas, etc. As PPs have pointed out, by very nature a zoo as a business may be able to put additional restrictions on service dog access. I think to "require" a vest they would need to have a specific reason related to their business why the service animal must wear identification - which may be as simple as visual identification so the service animal doesn't accidentally get confused with a zoo animal.

The paperwork...depends what they require. There is no legally recognized licensure or certification for service dogs in the U.S. But does the zoo require copies of shots or something? Again, due to the nature of the business, the zoo may need to require that documentation.

 

[goofytinkerbell]

1

 

[momz]

I think they should change the rules and folks with service dogs should need to provide proof, so that those with fake service dogs or emotional support animals don’t pretend to have real service dogs.

curious. what would be acceptable proof? I'm thinking of other things that require a license and there's significant red tape to go through. Many trades and professions require licensing. Driving requires a license. All of these things need to have rules and regulations along with licensing boards associated with them. So...to license a service dog...what would that look like?