Separating school discipline from home...

[DisneyJen0504]

It sounds like maybe your son is picking up on your frustration. Just reassure your son that the substitute is happy to be there and that the regular teacher will be back when she can.

As for the discipline, that's how most elementary classrooms that I'm familiar with handle it (I'm a parent and educator). Whether it's smiley faces or green-yellow-red cards, that sounds exactly like what just about every other teacher in the country is doing. The call home is most likely to keep you informed and to let you know what you might need to talk about with your child. No need for further discipline (unless it's something really serious, like hurting another child). I think that the best thing you can do is ask him what happened and talk out some better ways to handle that situation in the future.

I agree. As a Kindergarten teacher who does use the green, yellow, red card system in my class, I never expect a parent to do the discipline at home for something that happened in school, as I am sure most teachers do the same. In my class I don't call home or send a note for every red card (which means the child had a timeout) but if a behavior is repeating I do contact the parent to inform them what is going on in school and how we are dealing with it here.
My question for the OP is this, is there no punishment for his negative behavior while in school such as a timeout, cool off period, missing of playtime, etc. Are you sure he isn't getting any discipline for his actions at school? I would be shocked if that were the case.

As long as the teacher is just making you aware of the blue smiley face, I don't feel you need to punish him at home but talk to him about the behavior that got him the blue face. I would only discipline him for what he did in school if the negative behavior does not stop.

 

[SpecialK]

Schools can't put kids in the hall anymore because of safety concerns.

I'm a former teacher/current parent. I only called home for serious infractions, and in those cases I expected parental support. For goofing off, it should be handled in school.

Since the sub is calling home, you could try a reward system for the days you don't get a call - something small like a sticker or a special treat. You'd be reinforcing good behavior and openning the door for a non-threatening conversation with your child about the school day.

The problem teachers face is that some parents expect a call for the tiniest things, while others never want to be contacted. It's difficult for new teachers to discover where to draw the line.

 

[HappyDznyCamper]

I never said I didn't know why he was in trouble.
I always talk to my son when he gets home about his day.
And he always tells me what "face" he ended the day with.
I also volunteer in his class one morning a week.
So I see what is going on.
When his real teacher was there, he had no issues with behavior.
The infractions are minor, laughing at another child, stepping out of line in the hallway, general fooling around with other kids.
The sub doesn't have great control over the class.
The kids are all fooling around.
I talk to my son and he kept saying, other kids were doing the same thing...ect
I know this is no excuse and I told him so.
My son, unfortunately is an extreme follower!
If he sees another kid do something he has to do it.
If a kid is rolling around instead of sitting listening to the teacher, he will do it to.
If a kid throws a paper ball, he will do it to.
I have talked to him over and over about it.
I know this is something important we need to work on.
I just don't agree that ALL the discipine should be put on me at home.


again...
I guess I don't understand why they can't discipline at school?
Why can't they have time outs or make the kids sit outside the classroom door like they used to.
I really don't think punishing a five year old 4 hours after he does something stupid is fair.
In this day, for some kids, "Behave or I'm going to tell Mommy" means nothing.
So how do they control those kids?

I think you kinda answered your own question. The schools CAN'T discipline because too many parents complained about their little snowflake being humiliated by sitting in time out for everyone to see(or other reason why the child should not be singled out for bad behavior). Kids act up at school because they know they will receive little or no consequences at school or at home for their actions. It is a horrible position for teachers, especially subs to be in, they can't discipline the kids and the parents won't, since after all it happened hours ago, so why should they deal with it. Your son needs some help dealing with the stress over whatever is stressing him(the school counselor may be able to help or you may need to find help outside of school), but he also needs to know that YOU will not tolerate disrespectful behavior at school, no matter who is in the room. Elementary school is a good time to learn to be responsible for your own actions and choices, don't blame others bad behavior for your own.

 

[mybabesuz]

I agree. As a Kindergarten teacher who does use the green, yellow, red card system in my class, I never expect a parent to do the discipline at home for something that happened in school, as I am sure most teachers do the same. In my class I don't call home or send a note for every red card (which means the child had a timeout) but if a behavior is repeating I do contact the parent to inform them what is going on in school and how we are dealing with it here.
My question for the OP is this, is there no punishment for his negative behavior while in school such as a timeout, cool off period, missing of playtime, etc. Are you sure he isn't getting any discipline for his actions at school? I would be shocked if that were the case.

As long as the teacher is just making you aware of the blue smiley face, I don't feel you need to punish him at home but talk to him about the behavior that got him the blue face. I would only discipline him for what he did in school if the negative behavior does not stop.

I have seen no other discipline action in his class.
When I was in the classroom, the teacher would say... I'm going to have to turn your card if you don't stop it.
The the next time she would turn the card.
When the teacher called she even said, "it wasn't a big deal, but she had to call because his card got turned.
His regular teacher is very positive, and is constantly rewarding their GOOD behavor instead of just constantly being negative.
She would say "Great Job" 9 times for every "Please don't do that or we don't do that here"
His whole classroom has turned into a big Negative Place.

 

[MM27]

I know as a parent you want to know what's going on with the teacher, but as others said, it's not really the school's place to give you that information. We had a teacher at my school that was out for two months due to pregnancy complications which ultimately led to a miscarriage. I know at least one parent that demanded her child be moved to another class because she didn't want her daughter with a sub for that long and the principal honored that.

As a teacher, while I would hope that parents address the issues with their children when I call, I have no control over whether it happens or not. My job is to contact parents to let them know what's happening at school. I've been flat out told by some parents that they will not punish their child for something that happens at school and my simple answer is, "I am only calling to let you know that he/she WILL be punished at school"

 

[Wishing on a star]

Again, I want to reiterate that it sounds like your son is exhibiting signs of anxiety and stress...
(the teacher is dead and she isn't coming back...)

You mention that there seems to be little effective classroom management/discipline, and perhaps the ensuing lack of control over the classroom and the fact that many kids are fooling around is a trigger for this stress, uncertainty, and anxiety.

As you stated, your son has not shown these problems before, but Ms. Sub seems to have no other information and no other disciplinary action other than turning that card?????? IMHO, not effective or appropriate.

And, let me reassure you that MANY children, even older than yours, have a hard time verbalizing complex situations/emotions/etc... So, I can tell you that the 'he is not 2' comments are def. not always true. Personally, after my experiences with my son, going as far as first and even second grade... this lack of ability to understand and verbalize was a real factor. (The school should be responsible for full communication about any incidents or issues... no doubt about that)

Here is my advice about how to approach talking with your son....
One, do not ask broad, heavy, questions.... Instead of "What happened or went wrong today???"... Start out with simple, easy, child friendly questions such as "Who did you play with at recess... What did you have for lunch... What story did the teacher read at story time.... After a few minutes, you might be amazed at the little details that will be divulged!

There was one time when my son came home very visibly upset and anxious... But could not seem to tell me what was wrong... Later that evening, I used the above approach, and VOILA!!! I then knew exactly what the issue had been, and was able to address it the next day.

I am SO sorry that your son seems to be having anxiety and stress and behavioral manifestations with this new teacher/sub.

I hope that things will improve!

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, while the school does not have to offer any detailed personal or private information... at least an estimated term of leave and some reassurance might be in order.

Also, you might want to call and ask your State's and/or School Systems policy regarding subs....

Is this sub a fully certified teacher?

Here, I believe that a lesser qualified sub can only teach in the classroom as a sub for a limited period of time... If the teacher is to be out for more than this time, the school is required to provide a new, fully qualified and certified teacher.

 

[MM27]

OP, while the school does not have to offer any detailed personal or private information... at least an estimated term of leave and some reassurance might be in order.

Also, you might want to call and ask your State's and/or School Systems policy regarding subs....

Is this sub a fully certified teacher?

Here, I believe that a lesser qualified sub can only teach in the classroom as a sub for a limited period of time... If the teacher is to be out for more than this time, the school is required to provide a new, fully qualified and certified teacher.

You want to know how my district gets around that? They put a different sub in the classroom for one day and the next day the put the original back in the classroom. The next day, their time starts over again. It also saves the district money because if a sub is in the classroom for a certain period of time (continuous), their per day pay rate goes up.

 

[Hannathy]

I'm sorry but I think the whole point is being missed here. I don't care who is in the classroom, even if it is the janitor her son is misbehaving to the point of getting phone calls home and she doesn't think she should have to deal with it. She should be telling her son to behave or it will be dealt with at home and his job is to listen to whoever is teaching his class. If he was doing what she says he is doing then in any of my kids classes he would have been getting his card changed and probably a trip to the principals office by now.

I feel a lot of you don't give 5 yr olds very much credit and I stick to they aren't 2, they can behave and they can tell you what happened. You get out of kids what you expect out of them.

 

[mybabesuz]

OP, while the school does not have to offer any detailed personal or private information... at least an estimated term of leave and some reassurance might be in order.

Also, you might want to call and ask your State's and/or School Systems policy regarding subs....

Is this sub a fully certified teacher?

Here, I believe that a lesser qualified sub can only teach in the classroom as a sub for a limited period of time... If the teacher is to be out for more than this time, the school is required to provide a new, fully qualified and certified teacher.

I will definitely find this out.
I asked if his teacher was taking an extended leave.
Again... they just said they could not discuss it.
The teacher is 60 years old and has been teaching for 39 years.
Two of my other children had her. We were excited to have her again.
I know it is personal...but the nuturing side of me would love to send her a card
or offer her any assistance needed. Send food...

I remember when the students would be able to send well wishes to them.
And when the community would come together to help each other.

 

[mybabesuz]

I'm sorry but I think the whole point is being missed here. I don't care who is in the classroom, even if it is the janitor her son is misbehaving to the point of getting phone calls home and she doesn't think she should have to deal with it. She should be telling her son to behave or it will be dealt with at home and his job is to listen to whoever is teaching his class. If he was doing what she says he is doing then in any of my kids classes he would have been getting his card changed and probably a trip to the principals office by now.

I feel a lot of you don't give 5 yr olds very much credit and I stick to they aren't 2, they can behave and they can tell you what happened. You get out of kids what you expect out of them.

I am FULLY willing to SHARE the responsibility of my son's behavior.
He is usually a well behaved sweet child.
He is not a problem child.
His biggest problem is that he tends to do what others do.
The things he is doing in school are not horrible.
I think a Kindergartener needs a time of adjustment.
He was just getting settled in, learning the rules, getting used to his teacher,
and now she is gone.
So he is starting over with a new young teacher.
I am not excusing his behavior at all.
I have been a Mother for 25 years and a Daycare provider for 12 of those years.
I stand by my opinion that the school must share in the discipline and not put it all on me.
If I had a child misbehave in my Daycare I wouldn't just tell their parents.
I would deal with the situation at the time.

 

[HappyDznyCamper]

I am FULLY willing to SHARE the responsibility of my son's behavior.
He is usually a well behaved sweet child.
He is not a problem child.
His biggest problem is that he tends to do what others do.
The things he is doing in school are not horrible.
I think a Kindergartener needs a time of adjustment.
He was just getting settled in, learning the rules, getting used to his teacher,
and now she is gone.
So he is starting over with a new young teacher.
I am not excusing his behavior at all.
I have been a Mother for 25 years and a Daycare provider for 12 of those years.
I stand by my opinion that the school must share in the discipline and not put it all on me.
If I had a child misbehave in my Daycare I wouldn't just tell their parents.
I would deal with the situation at the time.

Unfortunately you are excusing the behavior...he is not the problem, needs time to adjust etc. My guess is he is not the only kindergartner in his class. Everyone needs time to adjust, but everyone needs to be respectful to the adult in the room(whether it is a student teacher, the principal, the janitor or the lunch lady) a certain type of behavior is required in school. Your son needs to learn proper behavior from YOU. Schools hands are tied(so to speak), they cannot physically make your child do anything, if he won't sit still they can't physically make that happen, if he won't keep his mouth shut and his hands to himself they can't make it happen either. What type of punishment would you recommend the school use? Usually calling the parents is the worst thing for a kid, or it should be, because that means mom and dad know and they are going to help the school get the kid back in line. Schools can only do so much and teaching should be the priority, dealing with kids who won't follow rules disrupts everyone and take away from kids and teachers time for teaching/learning.

 

[DawnCt1]

I guess I'm the only one who thinks getting phone calls home is not something to be ignored! My kids would be in a world of trouble if they got phone calls home and especially 2 in one week. In my kids class a phone call home was not done lightly, it took many many warnings and multiple mis steps in one day to get to that point.

I also disagree that a 5 yr old can't tell you what happened and what they did wrong, he is 5 not 2.

I also think if he misbehaved badly enough in school that they had to call me he would be getting punished at home.

I agree. My poodle may not know what he did to make someone unhappy 4 hours later, but a 5 year old knows what he did or didn't do in school that warranted a call home. The rule in our house was, if you need to be punished in school, you will need to be punished at home. There is no better time like the present for a child to get used to substitute teachers, learn to do their work and behave for them. They will have them through out their entire 13 years.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, I am with you, there would be NO way that I would discipline my 5 year old child, at all, unless I were fairly certain that my child was actually doing something that warranted such discipline/punishment. (and no, 'fooling around' does not qualify in my book... if that is the best they can come up with, then let them deal with it.)

I also would not discipline my 5 year old child when I might suspect that the entire problem stems from the teacher, the classroom environment, or the teacher/child dynamic.

I am sure that, as a reasonable, intelligent, experienced, parent, and even a long term dedicated child care provider.... you know that when it comes down to the wire, there are always those who will jump on any opporltunity to parent bash...

There are some here who are way out of line with reality and are way off base.
I would simply ignore and refrain from any further engagement.

 

[shortbun]

Comfort your child. He needs it, he's 5. I'd say if the school was totally clear about the time the teacher would be gone, they'd tell you. Usually planned absences are announced in advance. Tell them you are going to either ignore your child's call home things and tell him everything is ok OR they must address the absence of the teacher with the children because I'm sure your son is not the only child acting out.

 

[mybabesuz]

Unfortunately you are excusing the behavior...he is not the problem, needs time to adjust etc. My guess is he is not the only kindergartner in his class. Everyone needs time to adjust, but everyone needs to be respectful to the adult in the room(whether it is a student teacher, the principal, the janitor or the lunch lady) a certain type of behavior is required in school. Your son needs to learn proper behavior from YOU. Schools hands are tied(so to speak), they cannot physically make your child do anything, if he won't sit still they can't physically make that happen, if he won't keep his mouth shut and his hands to himself they can't make it happen either. What type of punishment would you recommend the school use? Usually calling the parents is the worst thing for a kid, or it should be, because that means mom and dad know and they are going to help the school get the kid back in line. Schools can only do so much and teaching should be the priority, dealing with kids who won't follow rules disrupts everyone and take away from kids and teachers time for teaching/learning.

I guess you are right. I am making excuses.
But not to him. I am venting my frustration here not in front of him.
He has been told that he better shape up or else.

You want to know what I really think though...
Here is the list:
If the teacher was a better teacher like his real teacher he wouldn't be having all these problems.
He never had any before now.
The teacher needs to better engage these kids.
I was there... the class room was Chaotic!
There are kids in the class that don't know their shapes and can't hold a crayon.
They are teaching Shapes and Colors.
He has know his since he was two.
He is bored.
He is a great kid!
He is our silly guy, our family comedian.
He does need to control himself, but shouldn't the teachers help guide him to do that also?
When I was in the classroom with his real teacher, it was all positive.
Every minute she was telling someone they were wonderful.
Now all I hear is negative things being said.
I don't want my child's bad days to continue at home.
We talk about it and move on.

 

[mjkacmom]

Unfortunately you are excusing the behavior...he is not the problem, needs time to adjust etc. My guess is he is not the only kindergartner in his class. Everyone needs time to adjust, but everyone needs to be respectful to the adult in the room(whether it is a student teacher, the principal, the janitor or the lunch lady) a certain type of behavior is required in school. Your son needs to learn proper behavior from YOU. Schools hands are tied(so to speak), they cannot physically make your child do anything, if he won't sit still they can't physically make that happen, if he won't keep his mouth shut and his hands to himself they can't make it happen either. What type of punishment would you recommend the school use? Usually calling the parents is the worst thing for a kid, or it should be, because that means mom and dad know and they are going to help the school get the kid back in line. Schools can only do so much and teaching should be the priority, dealing with kids who won't follow rules disrupts everyone and take away from kids and teachers time for teaching/learning.

Schools absolutely can punish children. I know ds7 had lunch twice in the principal's office last year, and missed a couple of recesses, and his teacher called me and informed me. I think, as parents, letting our children know how disappointed we are in them is pretty powerful. As a parent, I support the discipline methods the teachers have in their classroom. Even if I think they're too severe (which I don't think has ever happened), I support them. I remember ds14 spending a lot of time writing her multiplication tables (she was chatty)!

 

[mjkacmom]

As you stated, your son has not shown these problems before, but Ms. Sub seems to have no other information and no other disciplinary action other than turning that card?????? IMHO, not effective or appropriate.
!

My kids' school had the cards, but there was always a punishment when you got to red (except for the other kids knowing), and you had to earn your way back to green. What's the point if nothing happens at red?

 

[koolaidmoms]

We had a similar situation that caused all sort of anxiety for my DD.

In our school there are many children who have parents, other family members or close friends that for one reason or another (prison, drugs, mental illness, etc...) suddenly up and leave their lives with no explanation never to be seen again. This is not the case with DD but she really was looking forward to school and this teacher and it broke her heart when he left in the middle of the day and never returned.

We asked the school to bring in a counselor just to talk to the children about feelings and loss. Not saying that the teacher will never come back but how can the school help the transition time until she returns.

Many of the kids were acting out in response to the event without understanding the feelings they were having.

Don't know if this will help but it worked for us.

 

[HappyDznyCamper]

Sounds like everyone is having a tough time, the sub, the kids who are behind and the kids who are ahead. The sub is probably coming down very hard on disruptions hoping to get everyone to follow the rules because she herself may be overwhelmed. Your silly family clown may right now be her annoying class clown. No matter the reason for his disruptions, boardem, fear etc it is imperative that you support the teacher in expecting nothing less than great classroom manners from your son. This is a great learning time for you both, schools NEED parents to help them educate and control the kids they can't do it alone, unfortunately many parents think the school needs to deal with everything on their own. If he needs something to do while the teacher is working on the kids who are behind perhaps you could send a coloring or easy to read book for him so he has something quiet to do at his desk.

School should be an equal partnership with the parents in everything that affects the classroom. If a kid acts up at school they should expect consequences at home too, if a kid won't do his homework then he should expect consequences at school too.