Sensitive Subject: Overweight Kids at Disney and in USA in General

[year2late]

Originally posted by pnelson
How can they stand to look at themselves in the mirror?

Because an emotionally mature human being will look at themselves as the sum total of their life and not base their self worth on how they see themseleves in the mirror. They can look in the miror and see flaws, but respect who they are as an individual.

Don't worry. Keep up with your judging people based soley on their weight and people will always see you as a small person. Trust me.


Is obesity a serious problem? Yes. Have I seen more obese people at Disney, yes. Is the way to solve the problem insulting obese people with insinuations that they shouldn't be able to look in the mirror. Nope.

 

[immalemon]

baseballmom, my child is not overweight at all and i got heated because of how immature people have handled this discussion. Degrading people is not the answer. People smoke everyday, drink everyday, etc. It is an obvious problem of our nation, yes, we all know this, but WHY is it necessary to put people down? WHY? people do things bad to their bodies everyday in many many ways. Who are we to judge??? That is why I am heated. People are human being with emotions. There is no reason at all for having to hurt people intentionally, especially when you don't even know people, know thier walks of life, etc. It is just sad, and I think the more dangerous and sad thing this discussion has showed is the hatred and ignorance of Americans, not that they are overweight. People need to look at this discussion and see what REALLY needs to be changed in America!! Maybe we would have a lot less war and stuff if we changed our attitudes.

 

[Stepharoonie!]

Originally posted by pnelson
Our country has talked themselves into "It's okay to be overweight" and "A size 12 is average". I think it's pathetic really. These adults are teaching the same bad, nasty habits to their children.

I really really REALLY am peeved at this remark.

I'm 6ft1", 165 pounds and wear a size 12 jean/pant. Does this make me fat? HELL NO!! I am at my perfect weight for my height. I'm not fat, chubby, overweight, etc. This is really offensive to me that you would make such a nasty remark like this.

America shouldn't have to believe that YOUR "PERFECT SIZE" 4-6 is correct. If I were that size, I'd be SICK!

And if you read ANY women's magazines, American woman ARE a size 12 because it IS average.

 

[danacara]

Americans are heavier because we eat more. We also eat food with less nutritional value. Genetics, lack of activity, and illness can certainly play in, but at the end of the day, if you're overweight, you're eating more than your body needs. We fool ourselves when we believe otherwise.

I've weighed 180 lbs (I'm 5'3"). I then realized that looks matter in this world to a degree exceeding your intelligence, in a lot of cases. Sexually attractive people live better lives. They are simply treated better. They get hired with greater ease. They get promoted faster. They get a huge bolt of confidence from the admiring glances of others when they go out. They get good-looking clothes because they can shop in normal sizes. They do not pay for things that most other people pay for (lots of free food at restaurants, for example). They are not embarrassed to be outgoing. Perhaps most importantly, they don't give themselves any obstacles to doing the best they can do in this life. They make themselves as competitive as they can be. Is it superficial? Absolutely. But by living a good life on superficial measures, you free up the emotional space to live a good life on the measures that really matter, and I respect that. I wanted to be part of that. So I lost 50 lbs on Weight Watchers and now I, pardon my French, bust my a** to keep the weight off. It's made a huge difference in my life.

I've been fat, I've been thin, and perhaps it's because of our dysfunctional society or whatever, but thin is better. I'm not embarrassed to say it. I don't look down on heavier people, because I've been there and I know how it is. But if I'm ever asked by someone to help them lose weight - run with them, teach them Weight Watchers, whatever - I'm there in a minute.

The heavy kids these days make me flinch. Middle school is brutal enough for kids of normal weight. Heavier kids are at an immediate social disadvantage. Some are able to make it up with sparkling personalities ... most aren't. Why would you allow your kid to operate with a disadvantage relative to the other kids?

 

[Hagred]

Originally posted by pnelson
You know, you guys can call me mean, all you want, it all rolls off. I just believe in calling a duck a duck, if you know what I mean. If I noticed a lot of TALL people at WDW, I would say so. But, what I notice, is a lot of overweight people in this country, and I am not shy about saying so. The same goes for overweight children who are learning what they live from their overweight parents. You want to infer that I am mean or ugly because I am saying, what MANY people agree with? Fine, it doesn't bother me a bit. I know I can walk down Main Street without being red in the face and out of breath, etc. My 5 year old didn't need a stroller when we were there, either. So, say what you want, but I firmly believe, that there are many people who are agreeing with me, but are just too afraid too say anything.

I just have this to say, and it's all I'm gonna say about the subject.

When a human being grows old and dies, just like money, it ain't their body that they'll be taking with them. Everything they've learned and experienced, everything that's a part of who they are, is what stays in their soul.

Everyone dies alone. It don't matter how many people agreed with them or said they were right, you don't get to take those people with you when you die and embark on the next level of existence. For those who think this life is the only one, I'm sorry you feel that way.

But, for me, I look at life as the whole package of an even bigger event - many lives before this one and many lives after this one. I'm not going to concentrate on the first 30 or 40 years, then think it's all downhill from there because my body isn't approved of by strangers. Each life experience I take is another chance to learn more and improve my self. (Not necessarily the vehicle that I'm occupying at this moment) After all, it's only my self that I take with me when I leave this vehicle.

I don't mean to downgrade the current 'epidemic' of obesity or make light of it, but I did want to point out a bigger picture. A MUCH bigger picture.

Pnelson, I don't feel sorry for you, nor do I have any anger at what you've said. You know not what you do and are forgiven. But for those who have been hurt by what pnelson has said, I hope you take comfort in my words and realize that your life, right now, is but one moment in a timeline that measures itself in infinity.

 

[monkeyboy]

Originally posted by danacara
Sexually attractive people live better lives.

Then why am I not living the Life of Riley?

 

[ripleysmom]

"Sexually attractive people live better lives."

Yes they do. Does that mean that they need to be a size 4/6 for that? Nope.

Some of the most famous courtesans in history were not beautiful or even thin. Being sexually attractive is a whole package that includes many things. Being thin is not necessarily one of the them.

 

[faithinkarma]

WOW !!!!!!

 

[Duchie]

Originally posted by danacara
Sexually attractive people live better lives.

Marilyn Monroe was a size 14. At the time she was the definition of "sexually attractive".

 

[disneydragon]

What is considered "sexually attractive" changes from generation to generation. Ever hear of Peter Paul Rubens?

 

[legs22]

Did anyone here see the TV show Average Joe? When the slim girl put the fat suit on, she was treated differently, and when walking on the street, people looked away. It's sad but there is a difference in how heavy and slim people are treated and perceived.

 

[Winka]

Originally posted by Duchie
Marilyn Monroe was a size 14. At the time she was the definition of "sexually attractive".

Just jumping in!

I may be wrong, but I do believe that a size 14 then is NOT a size 14 now...having tried on some vintage gowns from the '50s, I'd probably have to half-disappear to get into a '50s size 2.

I do think that we are relaxing our standards of what "thin" or even "healthy" is these days...

 

[danacara]

Originally posted by disneydragon
What is considered "sexually attractive" changes from generation to generation. Ever hear of Peter Paul Rubens?

True. Let me know when it changes to mean "obese." I have a feeling I will be waiting a while.

 

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

Originally posted by pnelson
These are the exact responses I was expecting, to tell the truth. The minute someone says "Health Problems" to justify extra weight...Well, in Canada, Japan, and France, the people have health problems without being obese. And yes, I can be judgemental...I exercise, don't eat everything in sight, and work hard to stay a size 4-6. And I stand by what I said, and I've had others agree with me, the number of overweight people in this country is embarrasing. Oprah Winfrey went to France, and the people there were actually laughing at us. We use many things to justify our weight-Health problems being just one of them. And I notice it in my age group inparticular-late 30's, early 40's...Seems to be a prime time for people to let themselves "go" and use many exuses to gain weight. It's no wonder our kids are overweight...Like follows like, in my opinion.

Well if the people in France are laughing at us because we are fat, we must be doing something right! Who wants to be admired by the French?

Horrible logic my man!

 

[caitycaity]

regardless of whether fat people ARE treated differently, i would hope we could all agree that we should try to treat people (no matter what their weight is) as we would want them to treat us. i wouldn't have thought that was a controversial or novel idea, but...

and i'd like to chime in and say it's not like obese people aren't having sex. there's more to sexual attractiveness to me than someone's weight.

 

[phamton]

Originally posted by Winka
Just jumping in!

I may be wrong, but I do believe that a size 14 then is NOT a size 14 now...having tried on some vintage gowns from the '50s, I'd probably have to half-disappear to get into a '50s size 2.

About Marilyn Monore wearing a size 14 : http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm

quote: Marilyn may (at times) have been a little heavier than today's ultra-svelte models, but the notion that she was "fat" (even by today's standards) is based on misinformation or misunderstanding.

The claim about Marilyn's dress size is difficult to prove or disprove, both because of a lack of information and because of the number of ambiguities it engenders:
* Like most women, Marilyn Monroe experienced weight fluctuations as she aged, became pregnant, and One size fits all went through cycles of weight gain and dieting, and so she would not have worn any one dress size, but a range of different dress sizes.

* The standards for women's dress sizes have not remained constant over the years; they have changed as the size and shape of the average woman has changed. (Clothing manufacturers assume most women don't want to wear clothing of a size identified as "Large," for example, so they adjust their sizing so that the average-sized woman takes a "Medium." If the size of the average woman has increased a bit over the years, then the very same size that was a "Large" fifty years ago might be a "Medium" today. This is sort of what has happened to women's dress sizes since the 1940s: a woman who weighs more now than she did twenty years ago might actually be wearing a smaller dress size today.)

We can at least establish a range of measurements for Marilyn Monroe based on the available sources:

Height: 5 feet, 5 ½ inches
Weight: 118-140 pounds
Bust: 35-37 inches
Waist: 22-23 inches
Hips: 35-36 inches
Bra size: 36D

A woman of Marilyn's height, at the extreme of Marilyn's weight range (140 lbs), would probably wear a size 12 dress today (which is the same dress size listed for Marilyn in the book The Unabridged Marilyn). Perhaps at one time she did wear dresses that might have been considered size 16 (or even 18) back in the 1950s, but she almost certainly did not wear dresses equivalent to today's size 16. Marilyn was not considered "fat" in her time (nor would she be today)

 

[faithinkarma]

Marilyn was not considered "fat" in her time (nor would she be today)

I am not convinced she would not be considered fat today in this world that has become obsessed with looking like a twig.

But I can add something to the dress size debate because I was buying dresses in the sixties. It is entirely plausible that someone who wore a size 12 or 10 would also wear a 14 or 16. I did. The reason is simple. A size 12 dress was designed to fit a 32 inch bust. A 36 required a 16. I could buy pants or a skirt in a 12 but I never wore a blouse or dress that was less than a 16. there...now you all know more about me than you ever needed to.

 

[Nancy]

I'm not going to comment on how this thread got way off topic..but...Hagred....what you said was awesome! It brought tears to my eyes.

 

[Brer_Papa]

Originally posted by faithinkarma

A 36 required a 16. ....

I never wore a blouse or dress that was less than a 16. there...now you all know more about me than you ever needed to.

I guess that explains your tag....

Now seriously, Marilyn Monroe has been gone since 1962....yet even today, she is considered a sex goddess....no matter what her weight was or when...

I read one time that some photographers have thought that she was. perhaps the most photogenic person ever. If memory serves me right, one even went so far to say that when the camera focused on her, the camera fell in love with her.

Want to know one of the "stars" of today who I think the camera loves? Delta Berke....from Designing Women. She is gorgeous. Whether moving film or a still photograph, the camera caresses her beauty in the same manner as in the days of Miss Monroe.

The camera, an inanimate object, without the bias or prejudice of the human, knows beauty when it sees it.....

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by danacara
True. Let me know when it changes to mean "obese." I have a feeling I will be waiting a while.

What one person considers attractive may just be another person's ugly. One can be so shallow and uncaring on the inside that a size 4 shell doesn't mean a thing.

No matter what you find attractive, thank goodness there are people in this world who don't think the most important aspect of another person is whether or not you'd like to have sex with them!