Senate passes stimulus package...

[bsnyder]

In response to the last overlay, we did.

overlay?

 

[moburg]

Last year's stimulus package was an utter failure, and guys like Krugman said it would be.

Obama voted for it.

And most of us railing against this stimulus bill were railing against that one too! I couldn't care less that Bush proposed it. A bad bill is a bad bill regardless of who proposes it!

And as for Krugman, even a broken clock is right twice as day.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Throwing money at it from the government side will not fix it. As we saw in the 30's and just last year as well.

In the 30's we didn't throw enough money at it. We DID throw enough money at it in the 40's and that DID THE JOB!!!!

Krugman said the earlier stimulus plan would fail because it wasn't big enough. History proves him right.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

Obama voted for it.

And most of us railing against this stimulus bill were railing against that one too! I couldn't care less that Bush proposed it. A bad bill is a bad bill regardless of who proposes it!

And as for Krugman, even a broken clock is right twice as day.

Krugman is far from a broken clock. He won the Nobel Prize in economics last year.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I feel nothing but anger and dread.

I feel your pain. This is a bad bill. They know it but, wanted to "pass something".

Add this to Geithner unveiling his "plan" (actually, goals...no plan...still).... This has been a bad day for America.

 

[Master Mason]

In the 30's we didn't throw enough money at it. We DID throw enough money at it in the 40's and that DID THE JOB!!!!

Krugman said the earlier stimulus plan would fail because it wasn't big enough. History proves him right.

Are they going to couple it with protectionist policies, limit to stop all imported products, ensure that all products and services are provided by americans?

Your mioptic views are not seeing the whole picture.

 

[Geoff_M]

So it wasn't real money being spent on the ground? It was just in people's heads? Gimme a break. At any rate, wasn't demand pent up during the years of the Depression all the way up to the beginning of the war? How come that pent up demand never turned into GDP. Wait, it was because euphoria had to be added to the formula, right? Is this the Haight-Ashbury School of economics?

Do you remember Bush being criticized for "talking down" the economy? There is a definite physiological component to people's spending habits. Personal savings rates have shot up in the last six months because of personal fears about the economy. Increased savings has translated into reduced sales. After WWII, the national mood was buoyant and that helped the economy.

A lot of people weren't buying new cars during the Depression, but there were still plenty of others that were. Nationally, unemployment varied from 15-25% which meant that there were still lots of people with money to buy durable goods like cars. But during WWII it was virtually impossible for any citizen to buy a new car as Detroit's car factories were almost totally devoted to war-time production. After WWII, new cars hit the markets again and sales soared as a result. People were in the mood to buy... lots of things after having to live out of ration books for the better part of four years.

 

[Master Mason]

Krugman is far from a broken clock. He won the Nobel Prize in economics last year.

yea and Gore won one of those too, so I'm not that impressed with the Nobel people to be honest.

 

[Charade]

Well, deficit spending has to be paid back at some point in time. The fat times are when deficit spending gets paid back. During the good times, when the economy overheats, decrease spending, pay down debt, as a way to avoid inflation. During the bad times, as the economy slows, increase spending as a way to increase GDP. It's simple really. And don't forget, government spending during WWII took us out of the Depression, so we know this can work.

Try running your household finances that way and see what happens.

 

[JMD]

In the 30's we didn't throw enough money at it. We DID throw enough money at it in the 40's and that DID THE JOB!!!!

Krugman said the earlier stimulus plan would fail because it wasn't big enough. History proves him right.

And throwing names around doesn't prove anything. I can find plenty of economists that will disagree with Krugman. And history proves excessive government spending does not work. Period.

 

[wvjules]

In the 30's we didn't throw enough money at it. We DID throw enough money at it in the 40's and that DID THE JOB!!!!

Krugman said the earlier stimulus plan would fail because it wasn't big enough. History proves him right.

Steve, how much of YOUR money are you willing to throw at this problem to fix it? I'm not willing to give much more of MINE; espcially since it won't do a damned bit of good.

Does something need to be done? Maybe. But this stimulus "pork" package isn't it.

I would rather we do nothing than what is currently being proposed.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

Are they going to couple it with protectionist policies, limit to stop all imported products, ensure that all products and services are provided by americans?

Your mioptic views are not seeing the whole picture.

We are not at war, there's no reason for all those things. It is interesting that government spending was able to overcome all those things, which normally decrease growth. That's how powerful deficit spending is.

 

[moburg]

Krugman is far from a broken clock. He won the Nobel Prize in economics last year.

And Yassir Arafat won a Nobel PEACE Prize. So I would say their track record is a little sketchy.

 

[Master Mason]

We are not at war, there's no reason for all those things. It is interesting that government spending was able to overcome all those things, which normally decrease growth. That's how powerful deficit spending is.

if you wish to site the increased spending of WWII as the sole answer to the problem, then your going to have to recreate the same other factors that went into it. Defict spending is not very powerful when your money is going to other countries.

As already stated, Japan has been throwing money at their economy for several years now to no effect.

 

[Geoff_M]

Krugman is far from a broken clock. He won the Nobel Prize in economics last year.

Well for the record, the Nobel count stands at 2-4 against the package. As National Review noted:

Many leading economists believe that the stimulus will create value by driving higher output, and is therefore a good idea. Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz, both Nobel laureates in economics sure think so. In fact, they think the stimulus should be bigger. On the other hand, Nobel laureates in economics James Buchanan, Edward Prescott, Vernon Smith and Gary Becker all think it’s a bad idea. The only thing we can say with high confidence about this is that at least several Nobel laureates in economics are wrong.

 

[bsnyder]

That's how powerful deficit spending is.

We could have the same $$ amount of deficit spending by lowering the cost of investment capital, and it would be available to the economy in lickety-split time, compared to the monstrosity Congress has come up with.

 

[KSchwagg86]

This does not make me happy

 

[CPT Tripss]

We could have the same $$ amount of deficit spending by lowering the cost of investment capital, and it would be available to the economy in lickety-split time, compared to the monstrosity Congress has come up with.

How much of that "profit" would wind up in the pockets of the yahoo CEOs who got us into this mess?

 

[Master Mason]

How much of that "profit" would wind up in the pockets of the yahoo CEOs who got us into this mess?

So now it is Yahoo's fault?





Sorry couldn't resist...

 

[TLSnell1981]

We could have the same $$ amount of deficit spending by lowering the cost of investment capital, and it would be available to the economy in lickety-split time, compared to the monstrosity Congress has come up with.

But, Obama and his congress must pay their debts. This is all about payback. The dems are piling manure on top of manure. Just more stink.

The silver lining to this dark cloud...only three republicans voted for this crap. Three.