Selling Photos of Things at Disney?

GrillMouster

Mouster of the Grill
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
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My understanding of copyright law, or at least the rules of stock agencies, is that, maybe with the exception of editorial images, I cannot sell images of recognizable privately-owned locations without written consent of the owner. For instance, I couldn't sell images of Cinderella Castle, Spaceship Earth or Mickey Mouse. What about detail shots that are not recognizable as distinctly Disney? For instance, what about a closeup shot of some architectural detail, such as tiles, an arched doorway, or a wall from the "back streets" of the Morocco pavilion at Epcot? Some of us "Disney freaks" on this board might be able to recognize even the most obscure detail images, but, for 99.99999% of the world, these are images that might have been taken in another country. Is this okay?

I noticed that a Photoshop instructional book by a very popular author, is FILLED with detail images that were taken by the author at WDW. Being the Disney freak that I am, I instantly recognized the shapes from Astro Orbiter and other locations in the parks. Do you think he got releases from Disney?
 
When at Disney, you're on their property. Pretty safe bet that you'll need a release for ANYTHING shot on their property (recognizable or not).

I'm sure the Photoshop book got the releases.
 
^^^ Agreed. I can assure you Scott Kelby has permission for all the images he uses- including the Disney ones.
 
I'm not so sure a release was needed,

it isn't a photo book of Disney images, it is a book on photoshop, he isn't making a profit off of the images, but off of the instructional content, the pics are used for educational purposes and depending on interpretation could fall under fair use..:confused3
 

the bigger the profit and the more recognizable the subject = higher odds of property owner taking action.
 
And let's be honest here - the Disney corporation is as ruthless and money-driven as any other. If there's a way it can make money from any activity, it will!

regards,
/alan
 
I'm not so sure a release was needed,

it isn't a photo book of Disney images, it is a book on photoshop, he isn't making a profit off of the images, but off of the instructional content, the pics are used for educational purposes and depending on interpretation could fall under fair use..:confused3
Educational "fair use" only covers use of copyrighted material as part of classroom curriculum, it does not extend to those that make educational materials for classrooms. It covers things like a teacher using a photocopy of something in the classroom, not the makers of textbooks.

As pointed out above, the use of Disney photos in a commercial work without a release only matters if Disney cares. There's nothing illegal about using them. Given that the subject of the book is how to use a photo editing tools, and not about Disney itself, Disney, Inc. might not care as it's not likely to compete against anything they would be likely to sell.
 
/
As pointed out above, the use of Disney photos in a commercial work without a release only matters if Disney cares. There's nothing illegal about using them. .


if there were nothing illegal about using them, then it wouldn't matter if disney cared, there would be nothing they could do..
 
if there were nothing illegal about using them, then it wouldn't matter if disney cared, there would be nothing they could do..

Lack of action by the rights holder, is like giving legal permission to use the subjects in question.

So if Disney(in this case) does nothing, you have the legal right to use the images. If Disney asks you to stop, you have the legal obligation to stop.

It only becomes illegal if you are asked to stop profiting from their properties, and you continue to do so.
 
Lack of action by the rights holder, is like giving legal permission to use the subjects in question.

So if Disney(in this case) does nothing, you have the legal right to use the images. If Disney asks you to stop, you have the legal obligation to stop.

It only becomes illegal if you are asked to stop profiting from their properties, and you continue to do so.

I respectfully disagree, that's like saying it's legal to speed if no one stops you, it's still illegal
 
I respectfully disagree, that's like saying it's legal to speed if no one stops you, it's still illegal

I have to agree with this. If it is in fact illegal to use the photos from WDW, then it is illegal. Period. I don't see how using them and getting caught is what constitutes illegality.

Now, how about "non-profit" uses? I'm sure that you still need permission, right? I am asking because I got some nice shots that I would like DD's school to be able to raffle off to help pay for art supplies. They do this every year at their art auction. However, they are from Animal Kingdom. I would guess that it could NEVER be proven that they are from there, but they are. What about that situation?
 
I have to agree with this. If it is in fact illegal to use the photos from WDW, then it is illegal. Period. I don't see how using them and getting caught is what constitutes illegality.

Now, how about "non-profit" uses? I'm sure that you still need permission, right? I am asking because I got some nice shots that I would like DD's school to be able to raffle off to help pay for art supplies. They do this every year at their art auction. However, they are from Animal Kingdom. I would guess that it could NEVER be proven that they are from there, but they are. What about that situation?

technically still illegal, would you get caught or would Disney prosecute, probably not
 
I respectfully disagree, that's like saying it's legal to speed if no one stops you, it's still illegal

Except there is a specific law that states a maximum speed, and going over that is a violation. Not so with images.

I would compare it more with harassment(sexual), it is not illegal to ask a coworker out... UNTIL that person says no and asks you to stop.
 
A CM friend of ours said that there is an official written policy on any pictures taken while on their property or of their property that says to sell them you must have written permission. Entering their property binds you to adhere to all of their policies whether you read them or not.

That said, I doubt they take any action against small time stuff. It is just not worth their while if you are selling a print for charity. If you set up a store front to sell them, you might get attention. Be careful not to open up the school to liability though.

Kevin
 
A CM friend of ours said that there is an official written policy on any pictures taken while on their property or of their property that says to sell them you must have written permission. Entering their property binds you to adhere to all of their policies whether you read them or not.

That said, I doubt they take any action against small time stuff. It is just not worth their while if you are selling a print for charity. If you set up a store front to sell them, you might get attention. Be careful not to open up the school to liability though.

Kevin

No, I wouldn't do that. I am not going to donate them anyways due to the fact that I know it is a sticky subject that could come back to bite them if they sold them. Sure, if it were easy, I would ask Disney for their ok on this, but I'm sure it isn't easy, therefore not worth it. I have many non-Disney property photos that the school can try to sell. I'm sure they will get something for them.
 
Except there is a specific law that states a maximum speed, and going over that is a violation. Not so with images.

I would compare it more with harassment(sexual), it is not illegal to ask a coworker out... UNTIL that person says no and asks you to stop.

there are also very specific laws dealing with copyright and copyright infringement.,.
I personally have never read anything stating that copyright infringement is legal unless the copyright holder asks you to stop
 
there are also very specific laws dealing with copyright and copyright infringement.,.
I personally have never read anything stating that copyright infringement is legal unless the copyright holder asks you to stop

There are many laws that consent or lack there of is the sole determination of it being a violation or not. And in many cases lack of objection is perceived as consent.
 
It is true that if you do not actively defend your intellectual property then it is taken as a sign that you do not wish it to be protected. There was one large company whose trademark became basically valueless because they couldn't show they had defended it - was it Hoover - and now the US legal system essentially forces companies to act unreasonably so that they can show they have defended their IP...

I would imagine that the physical appearance of anything in Disneyworld could be counted as intellectual property.

regards,
/alan
 
A CM friend of ours said that there is an official written policy on any pictures taken while on their property or of their property that says to sell them you must have written permission. Entering their property binds you to adhere to all of their policies whether you read them or not.

That said, I doubt they take any action against small time stuff. It is just not worth their while if you are selling a print for charity. If you set up a store front to sell them, you might get attention. Be careful not to open up the school to liability though.

Kevin
There's a lot of various legal concepts that are being mixed and blurred in this thread and I'd like to try and pull some of them apart...

1) WDW is private property. As such, any guest that is there stays "at the pleasure" of Disney. Anyone can be asked to leave for any reason. This would include photographers that Disney thinks is trying to engage in commercial photography without their permission.

2) Don't confuse trademarks with copyrights. They are two very different things with their own set of legal rules. A "trademark" is something that is used to identify a product or company (ex. three circle Mickey head, "Disney" in the Disney font, Mickey, Pooh, Cindy's Castle, SE, etc.). A copyright protects a creative work from being copied or used in a derivative work. Only trademarks can be "lost" if not defended against abuse by their owners, there is no such requirement for copyrights.

3) Copyright law gives the rights holder an exclusive right to profit from their work. Short of pirating someone's copyrighted material, copyright violation is not illegal. It is not a criminal offense, it's a civil matter. Using a photo from WDW without permission in a book is not "illegal", but it could be actionable in court. Law does allow the rights holder to take you to court to seek damages if they choose. Likewise, it is not "illegal" to allow someone to slip and fall on your property. But if that happens, civil law allows them to file suit against you if they choose and it's up to them to try and prove that you were negligent in some way.

However, copyright law is not exactly black-n-white. The nature of the usage, the amount of the material used, and how the usage affects the owner's commercial interest in the work are major factors that are weighed in courts when determining copyright violations. Me deciding to sell my own souvenir WDW coffee table photo book would be viewed in court a lot differently than some photos from WDW used in a Photoshop tutorial book. A judge/jury would be a lot more likely to award damages to Disney for my souvenir book than it would for the PS book. Securing a copyright or trademark is one thing, proving violations of those rights in a court is another beast entirely.

4) "So who owns the copyrights to my WDW vacation photos?" The answer is "you do". But your rights may be in conflict with Disney's in some cases, if you decide to use them for commercial purposes. The smart thing to do would be to try and get Disney's permission first, but if you don't it's only an issue if Disney objects and opts to seek damages in a civil court. As mentioned above, there is no risk to Disney if they allow you to include a photo of WDW in your book without permission.

Also, Disney hasn't copyrighted and trademarked everything in the parks. Major landmarks and architecture, characters... sure. But they can't lay claim to every bench, store interior, tree, etc.
 
3) Copyright law gives the rights holder an exclusive right to profit from their work. Short of pirating someone's copyrighted material, copyright violation is not illegal. It is not a criminal offense, it's a civil matter. Using a photo from WDW without permission in a book is not "illegal", but it could be actionable in court. Law does allow the rights holder to take you to court to seek damages if they choose. Likewise, it is not "illegal" to allow someone to slip and fall on your property. But if that happens, civil law allows them to file suit against you if they choose and it's up to them to try and prove that you were negligent in some way.

.

2 totally diffferent things, whereas there obviously is no law stating that you can't let someone slip on your sidewalk, there certainly is law defining copyright and copyright infringement,

infringement would then be considered illegal based on the very definition of the word illegal,

being handled by criminal or civil court is irrelevent,

to put it in another perspective.

if copyright infringement were legal as you propose, it would be the only legal activity that I am aware of, for which you could be fined tens of thousands of dollars for each act thereof..
 

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