Self Extenders

[Debbie H]

Nor do I. I am quite sure there are a percenatage of guests who leave after the posted time on any given day...and that's been happening for years now.

My question is whether we have any evidence to suggest that in 2007 people are departing late in significantly greater numbers than they did in 2005.

Let's think about this. The ONLY way that late departures would impact houskeeping is if there are so many late departures that the housekeepers have nothing to do at 11am. If they are standing around because every room that needs to be serviced is still occupied, only then is it a problem.

If 20% or 30% or even 50% of guests haven't left by 11am, it shouldn't have a single bit of impact on room cleanings. They can't clean every room at once and it doesn't take 3 hours to service a single room. If a guest is still putting the finishing touches on his packing at noon, the CM should move on to the next room.

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that departing guests are being used as scapegoats for housekeeping issues.

It doesn't matter. Check out is at 11:00. Not when someone feels like it because housekeeping has other rooms to clean. Like another poster said, day care figured it out. It doesn't matter what percentage didn't leave by 11, they still are late. If a guest can't put the finishing touches on their packing by check out time then perhaps they need to get up earlier. I think the only excuse is if there is a person in that room that is ill. I'm sure though that everytime someone needs to put the finishing touches on their packing, someone will suddenly become ill.

Don't make excuses for bad housekeeping or for late checkouts. There are no excuses that I can think of. Some people think everything is relative and don't feel that the rules apply to them.

 

[tjkraz]

It doesn't matter. Check out is at 11:00. Not when someone feels like it because housekeeping has other rooms to clean. Like another poster said, day care figured it out. It doesn't matter what percentage didn't leave by 11,they still are late. If a guest can't put the finishing touches on their packing by check out time then perhaps they need to get up earlier. I think the only excuse is if there is person in that room that is ill. I'm sure though that everytime someone needs to put the finishing touches on their packing, someone will suddenly become ill.

Don't make excuses for bad housekeeping or for late checkouts. There are no excuses that I can think of. Some people think everything is relative and don't feel that the rules apply to them.

My intention has never been to make excuses.

The problem identified is late access to guest rooms on arrival day.

We've got 11 pages of posts largely working from the assumption that late departures are responsible. I'm proposing that some percentage of guests have always departed late and that there is no obvious evidence to suggest that the practice has suddenly become an issue in 2007. I suspect there are other issues at play here, with the most likely being sub-standard housekeeping.

If I'm right, you can fine people all you want and it still won't fix the problem.

That said, we still need to remember that Disney is in the hospitality industry and they aren't going to wrecklessly risk alienating guests at every turn. Disney clearly has the right to fine for late departures and they choose not to do so.

 

[Sammie]

First off, I truly do not believe the majority of CMs at the Front Desk lie to guests. Most are very hard working honest people who are trying their best to please thousands of guests on a daily basis.

Cash paying guests can be granted late check out at DVC resorts just like they can at any Disney resort. So it is very possible that the OP followed a cash paying guest that over extended their stay.

When we have had to wait for a room due to the fact that it was not clean yet, the staff was very upfront in stating that the delay was due to the fact the room was not clean yet.

Disney is extremely understaffed in housekeeping and villas are very time consuming to clean and if anything has changed in the last 5 years, more guests have become slobs and make a huge mess for the maids to clean up.

And as TJ stated at this time, DVC has not elected to fine members for late departures.

And if I had to guess why it is because at the resort you have a mix of member and nonmember. If you start fining the members for late departure, then those rooms are going to get freed up sooner. The cash guest however operates under a different set of rules and can be allowed to have late check out as late as 2pm without paying.

Those rooms are going to be delayed in getting cleaned. Pretty soon due to the Net and the discussion that will follow you are going to have members requesting to be put in a room previously occupied by a Member so that they have a better chance of getting it earlier than a room occupied by paying guest.

Therefore it won't happen.

 

[disney54us]

I have had the experience of being told my room is not ready,but never realized it could be because others stayed beyond there time. I do think check in for incoming guest needs to be taken serious. If they are DVC members charge them points or put the room charge on the credit card which the front desk would have for cash or point paying guest. Staying beyond Check out takes away from the next incoming families start of vacation. After the traveling time and looking forward to getting to Disney, no guest should be detained due to guest who needed to be responsible and leave.

 

[Safari Queen]

Yes, there is less staff but there are also more people these days who think only of themselves. These are the same people who walk abreast down the street so you can't get past them, stop short in the middle of the sidewalk, cut in front of children at a parade after you've waited forever to get a great spot...thoughtless, selfish, self-involved pig people. Maybe they can give us room numbers of people who are late checking out and we can go knock on the door and offer to help them pack!

 

[dianeschlicht]

My intention has never been to make excuses.

The problem identified is late access to guest rooms on arrival day.

We've got 11 pages of posts largely working from the assumption that late departures are responsible. I'm proposing that some percentage of guests have always departed late and that there is no obvious evidence to suggest that the practice has suddenly become an issue in 2007. I suspect there are other issues at play here, with the most likely being sub-standard housekeeping.

If I'm right, you can fine people all you want and it still won't fix the problem.

That said, we still need to remember that Disney is in the hospitality industry and they aren't going to wrecklessly risk alienating guests at every turn. Disney clearly has the right to fine for late departures and they choose not to do so.

I think it's a combination of both late departures and a decrease in the number and efficiency of the housekeeping staff. I know it is often very difficult to get housekeeping to understand what you are saying is substandard when they come back at your request, and they can't understand what the problem is. It took me three trys to get them to remove the previous occupant's used soap from the shower last December, and after the 3rd visit from them and the dirty soap still stuck to the soap dish, I gave up and removed it myself and cleaned the soap dish. It really helps if they understand a LITTLE bit of English and also understand a little bit of common cleanliness expectations.

 

[chicopjim1]

Whats wrong with pilling their luggage outside the door and calling for bell services to take it away. If you are checked in its your room.

 

[kdzgon]

I thought I posted this, but I don't see it - if I'm missing it, please excuse the double post!

After reading the entire thread, I'm still puzzled - how in the world does one "self-extend"??

 

[loribell]

I thought I posted this, but I don't see it - if I'm missing it, please excuse the double post!

After reading the entire thread, I'm still puzzled - how in the world does one "self-extend"??

I would say that they self extend by still having stuff in the room past check out time.


One other thing I wanted to add was that on our next to the last day we changed from a 2 bed to a studio. The maid was waiting there in the hall for us to leave the 2 bed. We were out of the room about 10:45. We went up to let the front desk know we were out of the room & double check on our studio room, which was then ready. We realized my daughter left a toy in the room & went back to get it. DH's key still worked & he scared the pooh out of that poor maid! So when do the room keys stop working? I expected him to knock on the door, not use his key!

 

[tjkraz]

Whats wrong with pilling their luggage outside the door and calling for bell services to take it away. If you are checked in its your room.

That scenario would (OK, make that "should") never occur.

Disney resorts don't allow access to an incoming guest until the prior tennant has vacated and housekeeping has cleaned and released the room. As a practice they don't even give out the room number to the incoming guest until he/she is permitted in the room.

 

[kdzgon]

I would say that they self extend by still having stuff in the room past check out time. ...

But what about points?

That's pretty lousy - both that you CAN do that and that people DO do that. So, if someone has a res at one resort with a "hole" in the middle and the wait-list never comes through for that date, I guess they *could* just stay in the same room rather than move so many times. I almost want to see a mod make this thread "disappear" rather than give any more oafs an idea they didn't already have!!

edited to add: make that "might" not already have had!

 

[tjkraz]

After reading the entire thread, I'm still puzzled - how in the world does one "self-extend"??

Well, there are really two scenarios and few of the posts here that describe actual situations distinguish between the two.

1. People who decide to add extra days to their trip.
2. People who remain in the room beyond the posted check-out time.

Both are actually "legal" as far as Florida statutes are concerned. Hotels simply cannot toss guests and their belongings out on the posted check-out time. If a guest wishes to add additional nights to their stay, and has every intention of paying for the added nights, the hotel must allow them to do so. That's true even if it inconveniences incoming guests.

Specifically regarding DVC members, Doc and I both posted in this thread how there is a clause in the POS which states that DVC has the right to charge members a $50 fee plus the cost of obtaining alternative accommodations for any guest inconvenienced by an extended stay.

If a guest has not left property as of the posted time and does not intend to pay for additional nights, the hotel has a right to evict the guest. Eviction involves confronting the guest verbally or in writing and formally asking them to leave the premices. If they refuse, law enforcement can be brought in to remove the individual.

Resorts have the right to publish their own fees for guests who stay beyond the posted time. In the case of DVC members the the $50 fee would also appear to apply. But the resort still cannot simply toss the guest out or deactivate their key card at 11am. They need to go thru the formal eviction process.

While these laws may seem to make little sense, they are designed to protect guests from unscrupulous hotel operators who may attempt to treat their guests like chattle. I don't think anyone would enjoy discovering they had been cast-out of a hotel two minutes after check-out time if they were sitting in the hospital tending to a relative, if a hurricane was bearing-down on Orlando or if a flight had been re-scheduled for the following day.

Unfortunately that still does leave people who will take advantage of the situations and manipulate the hotel's restrictions to work in their favor. Hotels have every right to charge these people in compliance with their posted policies. The fact that Disney does not do so leads me to believe that it is not a particularly widespread problem.

In fact, here's another twist: If a guest leaves a Disney resort after 11am on check-out day, chances are that guest is still on property somewhere. That individual (more likely, that family) is off using another ticket day at the parks, eating breakfast and perhaps lunch at a Disney restaurant, picking up a few last souvenirs at a gift shop or Downtown Disney, fininsh a last round of golf at a Disney course, etc. In other words, a guest who hasn't checked-out by 11am is very likely off spending additional money elsewhere on property.

Does anyone really think that Disney wants to use fines and inconveniences to discourage the guest from spending additional dollars before they depart?

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

The main problem I have with this discussion (and sorry, KJJ, I'm not singling you out on purpose) is that most seem to be making the ASSUMPTION that departing guests are to blame. And that's a HUGE assumption, IMO.

After 43 visits and always getting into the room on time, can you point to any recent changes that could have upset the apple cart? Is there any remotely valid reason to conclude that after 35 years of WDW and 15 years of DVC, suddenly in 2007 a much greater proportion of guests have decided to be total jerks?

On the other hand, we've heard repeatedly about how under-staffed Disney is in housekeeping. We've all read the reports about dirty rooms, CMs caught watching TV and so on. I realize that I'm painting all of the housekeeping CMs with a rather broad brush, and that's unfair to most of them. But based upon what I have been reading, if anything has changed in the last year or two it's the staffing levels / training / management of housekeeping.

I can't think of a single bit of evidence I can point to which would suggest that guests now feel more entitled to stay afte 11am than they did 3 or 5 or 10 years ago. And I say that despite the excuses being offered by front desk CMs. After all, I suspect arriving guests are much more sympathetic toward the CMs if they are told that someone other than resort staff is to blame for the late entry.

I see your point, but when I've got a maid who's got nothing better to do than pound on my door every half hour, then I'm not feeling it's the maids who are overwhelmed and understaffed, but the guests who feel the rules don't apply to them and that they're *special* and should check out when they decide, not when the checkout time is.

So do you p*ss off the people who are checking in, or checking out? I think my potential ability to blow capital at Disney is MUCH higher when I check in and am loving the place soooo much I can't wait to do/buy/see everything than on checkout when most of the potential spending has already been done...

And yeah, I think the X generation's really messing it up, that's a big fat bit of change right there. Yes, I'm an older genX, but I was raised with manners.

 

[tubtruck]

Greif sounds like a nightmare, I checked in to the BCV a few weeks ago at 8.30am and got the room straight away, DW was still in our last room at the poly and I was able to ring her to come on over.

 

[LoveToDisney]

Greif sounds like a nightmare, I checked in to the BCV a few weeks ago at 8.30am and got the room straight away, DW was still in our last room at the poly and I was able to ring her to come on over.

Wow, what day of the week and what time of year did you check in? I always have to wait until very late to get my room at BCV because they are always full. I'm sure it matters "when" you are wanting to check and whether the occupancy level is high so someone else has to check out and the room cleaned before you can have it.

Regarding the maids knocking on the door early in the am on check-out day, I always put my do not disturb sign out. If they call, I let them know about what time we will be leaving which is usually 10am or sooner. I have stayed some places besides Disney where you can leave a sign out that says the room is ready to receive service. I noticed at SSR, they leave a basket with the sheets, etc. in the hallway. When we left, I scooted the basket in front of the door so they would notice that we had left.

 

[kdzgon]

I understand the "didn't leave the room yet" portion of self-extend (not sure I'd use that term, tho), but what about the points? I'm guessing they don't call or visit the front desk to make the arrangements. Do they call MS directly and arrange the use of the add'l points required and/or call CRO to arrange a cash reservation? If not, how can it be said that the guests "intend" to pay for the room?

I understand such actions can put Disney between a "rock and a hard place", but by that theory no smoker need ever worry about getting hit with a "cleaning charge", either.

Come to think of it, that seems to be the exact mindset of the smokers we encountered at OKW last week. You couldn't walk to the pool snack bar without walking through a cloud of smoke from the table and lounge chairs filled with smokers, seated within steps of the snack bar but quite far from the (empty) designated smoking area. It appears no one said a word to them and not one smoker seemed to have any qualms about lighting up where they were - somehow I doubt they'd have to worry about a "cleaning charge" either.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Funny that this post is going on now. Our kids just got back from a four day stay at Saratoga. They arrived at SSR around 10:30am. They had requested and recieved a room in the Springs section. They did not get thier room until 6:30pm that night. Apparently the previous guest decided to go to the park, come back and shower, and left around 3pm!

How outrageous that nothing was done to penalize the other guests how over extended thier vacation at the expense of the next guest.

Agreed... something must be done at the resort level... Since they cannot legally evict them, then there should be a big $$$ penalty that is passed on to the victims... Those checking in.

 

[tjkraz]

I understand the "didn't leave the room yet" portion of self-extend (not sure I'd use that term, tho), but what about the points? I'm guessing they don't call or visit the front desk to make the arrangements. Do they call MS directly and arrange the use of the add'l points required and/or call CRO to arrange a cash reservation? If not, how can it be said that the guests "intend" to pay for the room?

I posted the Florida statute that dictates the manner in which the hotel must act HERE. I can't say with absolute certainty that timeshares fall under the identical guidelines, but I'd be surprised if the requirements are radically different.

Basically the hotel is required to confront the guest and determine their intentions. Either the parties come to some agreement (cash, points, whatever), the guests leave, or the hotel can proceed with eviction.

As for the comparisons between smoking fines and late departure fines, I'm not sure that I would put them on an even plane.

My suspicion is that WDW outlawed smoking in guest rooms (and balconies) primarily to reduce property insurance premiums. If that's correct, enforcement of the smoking restriction may be required by the insurance company to keep the premium reduction in place. I have read reports of guests being fined--in some cases multiple times during a single trip for repeat violations.

With the late departures, Disney has never shown any inclination toward fining guests. In fact, cash guests are frequently granted late check-out priviledges by the resort. DVCs are usually not as forthcoming, but they don't fine people either.

 

[kdzgon]

tjkraz,

Just wanted you to know I appreciate your posts and the info you share - I wasn't questioning the accuracy of that info. I understand what you have been saying - my posts are mostly a commentary on the reality that the "rules" in this regard are little more than bluster and it seems a certain percentage of owners flaunt this loophole.

As to the smoking, I have read several "third party" posts re: smoking and cleaning charges, but do you (or anyone here) have any first hand experiences to relate? I suspect some guests and/or CMs may have been talking a good game, but I have yet to hear mention - or even read a first-party post regarding - any fees actually assessed. I have not read everything on the many boards, but everything I have read is "a fellow guest told me" or "my guide said" etc. Have I missed something? We were just there for the first time since the change, and based on what (admittedly little) I saw, no one seems too concerned, and I did not see a single smoker at any designated spot the entire time we were there (I did see smoking in several "prohibited" locations, though).

 

[goofy4tink]

I agree with TJ.

Haven't you ever walked down the halls of your resort (the LLOOOOOOOOOGGGG halls at BWV come to mind) and seen one maid cart and about 30 check out rooms? And maybe even the maids on break?

I remember checking into AKL a few years back. THere were some people from England who had been up all night flying and they just wanted a room...any room. And the desk told them , sorry no, come back at 4.
I was ASTOUNDED and probably that' sthe reason I haven't bought at AKLV.
I couldn't get over the rudeness at the front desk (and as I recall they were kinda rude to me too, tho I don't remember what I was asking for, cuz I was just so shocked at how they treated those people.

I understand if you don't have the inventory, but lots of times the rooms have been cleaned for hours and the front desk just hasn't gotten the ok clear signal.

But insofar as late check outs...I tend to be one of those people that cannot get my act together check out day. I'm out by noon, so please don't hate me, but 11 just seems too hard. Maybe it has something to do with the timing of flights out...If you have a morning flight, you're gone no problem. At Disney, if you have an late afternoon, evening flight, you check out and head to the parks for a last day of fun. It's those dang 2:00-4 flights that kinda leave ya hanging.(Leisurely breakfast and sHOPPING and then back to shower and pack.)

And what if you check in at 6pm due to no rooms ready and then have to check out at 11 the next day...It's almost like you don't really have a full use of the room for the money. (This isn't to excuse late check outs, but if I stayed at the Poly for $500 a night, I might feel that I deserve at least 18 hours in the room)

I've been known to check out the check in ready rooms before I even approach the front desk (not necessarily at Disney)...sometimes I'll ask the maids...who checked out today, what rooms are available and then I go up and request one. So many times I'm told that that room isn't ready. And then they'll call housekeeping and voila.

So it's probably more that the hotels are generally understaffed and their isn't updated info getting sent to the front desk, and there are people who don't check out as early as others, and the maids can only clean as many room between 3-5 as they do between 11 aand 1 ...and all of this plays a part.

If you use the same mentality that I have to use with my brother, you'll be okay. He is consistently late for everything...so I tell him he needs to be somewhere an hour earlier than need be. If you 'think' you have to be out of your villa by 10 am, rather than 11, then you'll be fine. I really don't mean to come across as mean spirited, but the checkout time is 11:00..you know that going in. If you can't be out on time, then be prepared to either be charged the cash room rate against your cc or lose the points you would have needed for that 'extended' stay. Fair is fair. I don't particularly like to have to vacate my room early when I'm not leaving until 2:00 but that's life. I have control over what flights I book. It's just not fair to stay in a room you are not entitled to.

Nor do I. I am quite sure there are a percenatage of guests who leave after the posted time on any given day...and that's been happening for years now.

My question is whether we have any evidence to suggest that in 2007 people are departing late in significantly greater numbers than they did in 2005.

Let's think about this. The ONLY way that late departures would impact houskeeping is if there are so many late departures that the housekeepers have nothing to do at 11am. If they are standing around because every room that needs to be serviced is still occupied, only then is it a problem.

If 20% or 30% or even 50% of guests haven't left by 11am, it shouldn't have a single bit of impact on room cleanings. They can't clean every room at once and it doesn't take 3 hours to service a single room. If a guest is still putting the finishing touches on his packing at noon, the CM should move on to the next room.

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that departing guests are being used as scapegoats for housekeeping issues.

This is a huge deal. I have only gotten into a villa early one time...late Oct and it was a 2 bedroom, boardwalk view. I have had to wait way past the 4:00 time on most occasions. Now, twice I have gone to my villa, that I have been told is ready for me, only to find either it is still occupied or there is a housekeeper in there cleaning. Now, both those times the room has shown, on the computer, to be ready for occupancy. Why is that? How could a room be shown as cleaned and ready to go if the guests have not left yet? That one was on Thanksgiving Day...when the manager (Alfredo at the time) walked to that villa with us, to see for himself, he was astounded. Went back to the computer and the housekeeper had listed it as 'ready'...although the guests had decided that they were staying an addtl day!
Several weeks ago, Aug 5, we checked in around 1:00 pm. I knew we would have to wait, so it wasn't an issue. Around 3:50 I called and was told my villa was all set..have a great stay. Up we trudge....open the door and there is the housekeeper, doing dishes! We dropped our carryons on the sofa, and told her no problem, we would come back later. At about 4:30, we went back, she's still there. At 4:45 she finally left, but saw us coming down the hall and told us to be careful because the tile floors were still wet from being washed! She had left towels on them to make it safer for us!! My question?? Why did that room show as ready?
I've also gotten the departure day housekeeper routine. They start knocking on the door at 8:45ish, then every half hour or so. We are always out by 10:00, never later, and we tell them this. Why the constant 'attention'??
Our villa had had the carpets cleaned that day, they were still damp the next morning. Not wonderful to say the least. This was also the only time we have had to call maintainence...a ceiling fan didn't work and there were lightbulbs missing, not broken, just completely missing (empty sockets). If this is the case, then housekeeping needs some serious overhauling.