Seems like new fastpass rides aren't a good thing

The good old days of gathering half a dozen FPs in the morning to use during the more crowded evening hours are long gone, and the FP system has never been the same since then. All of their tinkering can't make it as good as it used to be.

The good old days of the "theme park commandos" stealing rides from the casual visitors. Riders per hour are the same, so if you are getting on more rides, then someone else is getting on less. If you are getting on less, someone else is getting on more.

There are different types of theme park visitors. All of these changes are good for some people and bad for others.

So, if Disney makes a change that is bad for you, then they are making a change to benefit people that are not you.

Some people that would not wait 60 minutes in stand-by, will get a FastPass and ride. So yeah, that is "stealing rides" from the people that used to be willing to wait 60 mins but won't wait 120 mins.
 
The good old days of the "theme park commandos" stealing rides from the casual visitors. Riders per hour are the same, so if you are getting on more rides, then someone else is getting on less. If you are getting on less, someone else is getting on more.

There are different types of theme park visitors. All of these changes are good for some people and bad for others.

So, if Disney makes a change that is bad for you, then they are making a change to benefit people that are not you.

Some people that would not wait 60 minutes in stand-by, will get a FastPass and ride. So yeah, that is "stealing rides" from the people that used to be willing to wait 60 mins but won't wait 120 mins.

Stealing. :rotfl2::rotfl::lmao:

Yeah, I remember pushing people down and grabbing tickets out of their hands all the time. :rolleyes:
 
Stealing. :rotfl2::rotfl::lmao:

Yeah, I remember pushing people down and grabbing tickets out of their hands all the time. :rolleyes:

Ha ha ha! Glad they cleaned up that seedy Main Street, it was full of FP muggers way back when. :p

Although, I have had weird looks and suspicions when trying to give away FP's we pulled but could no longer use. :)
 
Stealing. :rotfl2::rotfl::lmao:

Yeah, I remember pushing people down and grabbing tickets out of their hands all the time. :rolleyes:

Yes "steal".
"to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steal


How about addressing the point?

Riders per hour is not effected by FastPass, so if you were getting on more, someone else was getting on less.

If the change means you are getting on less, then someone else is getting on more.

These boards are populated with "theme park commandos", and I am one of those. While the average guest does 9 things a day, I consider 30 to be a "taking it easy" day.

And yet, I am smart enough to also be able to see things from other people's point of view. I know not everyone wants to get to the park an hour before opening, to run from one side of the park to the other all day long, to constantly be thinking about what FPs I hold, what I'm pulling next, etc. I am intelligent enough to see that Disney makes changes for the benefit of those people, and NOT for me, and that is okay.
 

Yes "steal".
"to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steal


How about addressing the point?

Riders per hour is not effected by FastPass, so if you were getting on more, someone else was getting on less.

If the change means you are getting on less, then someone else is getting on more.

These boards are populated with "theme park commandos", and I am one of those. While the average guest does 9 things a day, I consider 30 to be a "taking it easy" day.

And yet, I am smart enough to also be able to see things from other people's point of view. I know not everyone wants to get to the park an hour before opening, to run from one side of the park to the other all day long, to constantly be thinking about what FPs I hold, what I'm pulling next, etc. I am intelligent enough to see that Disney makes changes for the benefit of those people, and NOT for me, and that is okay.

You're assuming there is such thing as a "proper share" of theme park rides. There isn't. Or Disney would be charging by the ride.
 
You're assuming there is such thing as a "proper share" of theme park rides. There isn't. Or Disney would be charging by the ride.

There is a "share" that makes it worth it to people to return. If the theme park commandos are riding 40 rides a day, and that means the casual guests only get to ride 5, then those casual guests won't return. So, Disney brings us down to 30 (which is enough to keep us coming back), so the casual guests can do 10 so they they will return. THAT is Disney's thinking, and that is the only thinking that is important.
 
You're assuming there is such thing as a "proper share" of theme park rides. There isn't. Or Disney would be charging by the ride.

I'm glad they don't. When ticket prices go up, I tell myself it's still a good deal not to pay per ride or show. With all the entertainment and unlimited rides, DL is cheaper than our State fair when I look at it like that. I save $ to go to DL instead :)
 
/
Yes tiering does have an impact no doubt. I tend to ride 1-2 less headliners a day at WDW as a result. And that is a bummer compared to the good old days. But that was getting harder to do anyways once they closed the legacy FP late acceptance policy. The positive side (for me) now is much less walking to get all the FPs and much less stress trying to get to the parks at rope drop to start the FP collection cycle.

Also, I think you can easily guess that tiering at WDW was necessary because they just do not have the number of headliner rides that DLR has per park. MK does and so FP+ works pretty well there without tiering. But the other parks do not. That will be changing a lot over the next two years. With Pandora opening at AK with two new headliners, plus Toy Story Land and Star Wars Land at DHS, I suspect tiering will be loosened quit a bit. Epcot is the only park that will need it at that point.

Anyway, you and I have exchanged our ideas on this before so I am sure we are repeating ourselves. At least I am sure I am!

Who knows where FP is going at DLR? Disney appears to be smart enough to not try to force FP+ into DLR. So give them some credit for that. MxPass may be an experiment. Or it may be something that grows. The legacy FP system at DLR has morphed a lot over the last 15 or so years.

:wizard:


Some are ok with 1 or 2 fewer headliners per day. I'm not. That's a pretty substantial downgrade in the value of what I'm getting for my ever increasing price of admission.

My point is that the study can say that wait times aren't up on a given ride (which I'm still skeptical about but will accept for the purpose of discussion). But if I do the same attractions now as I did before, and a couple of headliners are now standby instead of fastpass, that adds a substantial amount of waiting to my times.

Totally agree legacy was much better before time enforcement. But I still find it preferable to FP+. That's why we swapped to DLR for our annual trips when FP+ went live in WDW. I'm crossing my fingers now that no advance scheduling will minimize the impact of the change at DLR, but I still don't think they'll be able to resist the urge to keep tinkering and changing the system.
 
This is a microcosm of something I have seen over and over in places I have lived.

I grew up in California, where people complained about over crowding... Welcome to California, now go home.

I lived in Hawaii where they literally tried to pass a law saying you could not buy a house unless you were born in the state, and had to pay higher taxes if you were not born in the state.

I lived in Colorado where people complained about liberal Californians moving there. Don't Californicate Colorado.

I live in Arizona where people complain about people moving from California.

One thing I have learned. If you have a nice place to live, with good jobs and low prices, people will move there. If you want to stop people from moving there, make is suck to live there!

The same is true of Disneyland. Once upon a time maintenance sucked, DCA was a weak Six Flags Universal Berry Park, and the rides were not getting plusses. Disney got rid of Eisenberg and got the parks out from under the control of former Disney Store execs. They added a bunch of great rides and improved maintenance.... and now the parks are great, AND PACKED.

And the extra crowds show the improvements to the park... and people whine about the crowds and changes needed to accommodate the crowds.

Well, grow up and accept that the only constant is change, and the universe does not revolve around you.
 
Okay, guys, I've cleaned up the thread from the rude posts, and hopefully, some of you have had some time to cool down so you can play nice when you discuss things.

Please remember that it's fine to disagree, however, it is not fine to be rude to another another on these discussion boards.
 
Some are ok with 1 or 2 fewer headliners per day. I'm not. That's a pretty substantial downgrade in the value of what I'm getting for my ever increasing price of admission.

My point is that the study can say that wait times aren't up on a given ride (which I'm still skeptical about but will accept for the purpose of discussion). But if I do the same attractions now as I did before, and a couple of headliners are now standby instead of fastpass, that adds a substantial amount of waiting to my times.

Totally agree legacy was much better before time enforcement. But I still find it preferable to FP+. That's why we swapped to DLR for our annual trips when FP+ went live in WDW. I'm crossing my fingers now that no advance scheduling will minimize the impact of the change at DLR, but I still don't think they'll be able to resist the urge to keep tinkering and changing the system.

Sorry to everyone else with the focus here on WDW and FP+. I think it is true that, as others have pointed out, it sheds light on DLR and MaxPass and the future of DLR FP in general so I am going to venture a little more here but promise not to go on forever about WDW in this thread.

So with that, I would like to think about the PP a little more. :)

First, the days of legacy FP with late usage are long gone so let's not compare to that. Let's compare to the system at DLR for the last few years where FP windows are enforced. If I recall, WDW also did that for awhile too until FP+ was implemented.

I would say that FP+ means I get on 1-2 less headliners a day than before. That is the downside. If I remember your posts the last few years, you shifted to DLR once FP+ came out so maybe you never used it yourself? If so maybe you do not have a good feel for the "headliner cost" of 1-2 rides per day, but I think that is a fair assessment based on my experience. I have made two trips with FP+ (with a 3rd in a few weeks where I have booked FPs but not used them of course) so I am far from an expert. But that is what it feels like to me.

Today, FP+ has evolved to where you can book extra FPs (after your initial three) on your phone. That is so huge. I went to WDW in 2015 with FP+ and you had to go to kiosks to book extra FPs. Bottom line is we did very little of that because of the hassle.

But now you can do it from your phone. My sense from my March trip is that having a smaller group makes it much easier to get extra FP sets. We only had two people (DW and me), unlike my trips in earlier years when I had the whole crew of 6. So having two people makes it easier. I might feel differently if I was doing this for a larger group.

I could go down a long laundry list of all the pros and cons of FP+, but I do not care to do that here. So I will focus on a couple the major ones.

First, the major con is having to book the FPs in advance. If you are one of those who book ADRs at WDW, then you already are making park decisions in advance. Adding FP+ onto that is not a huge stretch from there. I have always made ADRs so FP+ is not a stretch for me.

Since I know what rides I want to do at WDW, making FP decisions in advance (60 days in my case) is not a major con but a minor con.

From there the impact is really how much I can get done in a day. It is my opinion, supported by TP studies I linked earlier, that FP+ has not had a major impact on the non-headliner rides. I think that is, for the most part, equal to before. The main impact is that I ride less headliners. That is a major con no matter how you slice it. So I agree with you there.

I found it pretty easy to get extra FP sets at WDW when I was there in March using my smartphone, and I would say getting two extra sets (for a total of 5 FPs) was not that hard. At least on days I made all my FPs windows early in the day. On my AK day I used a FP for Rivers of Light at night, and thus there was not chance to get extra FP sets. But for the most part, I was able to get extra FP sets. And I was typically able to get at least one of them for a major headliner. For example, I was able to get extra FPs for FEA and Soarin at Epcot, and RnR and ToT at DHS. So where as before I may have ridden RnR and ToT 3 times a day, on this trip it was only twice.

The pros I have mentioned already: I do need not to walk as much. I used to crisscross parks all the time to get extra FPs. And you know what? It was typical to end the night with at least one if not two or three unused FP sets. So my extra walking was all in vain. That always frustrated me. I knew how I hoofed it across a park in the heat to get the FP set while the others in my crew were sitting down for lunch in a nice air conditioned restaurant. Then we never got to use that FP.S o for me, it was the extra walking to get the FP, plus the extra walking to get FPs we never in fact used. That was a drain on my energy. But it was also time I had to leave my family - so I had less time with them. I would say it averaged 10-30 minutes a day depending on the park.

So now, I am not spending that time. I get to enjoy things and slow down a little more now than I allowed myself before because of the mad race to "get that one extra FP set". That was especially nice in March with DW since it was just the two of us.

DW and I are in our 50's now and she has some health issues that drain her energy a bit. So I try to minimize excessive walking for her. This worked to perfection on one of our Epcot days. We entered the main entrance at RD and went straight to Soarin. From there we basically made our way back slightly to the Seas area and had an early lunch there. Then across to the Mission Space, and finally into World Showcase going clockwise. We did the new FEA with FP, visited most of the national pavilions along the way, had dinner there, watched a concert at America Gardens, and finally left by the International Gateway to grab an Uber back to our hotel. It was a fairly linear path and involved at most 2 miles of walking inside Epcot.

For me that is a big "pro" for FP+. I was able to make FP+ times and ADR times to minimize walking and - bottom line which is always important - have a more relaxed and stress-free time with DW.

For me there is a positive tradeoff for what I have gained from FP+ compared to the headliners I have lost. I understand YMMV. I was initially prepared to despise FP+. I found I did not. I am not a huge proponent now. I just know that it has some advantages I did not anticipate and it is not as bad as many people predicted it would be. For me at least.

:wizard:
 
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Sorry to everyone else with the focus here on WDW and FP+. I think it is true that, as others have pointed out, it sheds light on DLR and MaxPass and the future of DLR FP in general so I am going to venture a little more here but promise not to go on forever about WDW in this thread.

So with that, I would like to think about the PP a little more. :)

First, the days of legacy FP with late usage are long gone so let's not compare to that. Let's compare to the system at DLR for the last few years where FP windows are enforced. If I recall, WDW also did that for awhile too until FP+ was implemented.

I would say that FP+ means I get on 1-2 less headliners a day than before. That is the downside. If I remember your posts the last few years, you shifted to DLR once FP+ came out so maybe you never used it yourself? If so maybe you do not have a good feel for the "headliner cost" of 1-2 rides per day, but I think that is a fair assessment based on my experience. I have made two trips with FP+ (with a 3rd in a few weeks where I have booked FPs but not used them of course) so I am far from an expert. But that is what it feels like to me.

Today, FP+ has evolved to where you can book extra FPs (after your initial three) on your phone. That is so huge. I went to WDW in 2015 with FP+ and you had to go to kiosks to book extra FPs. Bottom line is we did very little of that because of the hassle.

But now you can do it from your phone. My sense from my March trip is that having a smaller group makes it much easier to get extra FP sets. We only had two people (DW and me), unlike my trips in earlier years when I had the whole crew of 6. So having two people makes it easier. I might feel differently if I was doing this for a larger group.

I could go down a long laundry list of all the pros and cons of FP+, but I do not care to do that here. So I will focus on a couple the major ones.

First, the major con is having to book the FPs in advance. If you are one of those who book ADRs at WDW, then you already are making park decisions in advance. Adding FP+ onto that is not a huge stretch from there. I have always made ADRs so FP+ is not a stretch for me.

Since I know what rides I want to do at WDW, making FP decisions in advance (60 days in my case) is not a major con but a minor con.

From there the impact is really how much I can get done in a day. It is my opinion, supported by TP studies I linked earlier, that FP+ has not had a major impact on the non-headliner rides. I think that is, for the most part, equal to before. The main impact is that I ride less headliners. That is a major con no matter how you slice it. So I agree with you there.

I found it pretty easy to get extra FP sets at WDW when I was there in March using my smartphone, and I would say getting two extra sets (for a total of 5 FPs) was not that hard. At least on days I made all my FPs windows early in the day. On my AK day I used a FP for Rivers of Light at night, and thus there was not chance to get extra FP sets. But for the most part, I was able to get extra FP sets. And I was typically able to get at least one of them for a major headliner. For example, I was able to get extra FPs for FEA and Soarin at Epcot, and RnR and ToT at DHS. So where as before I may have ridden RnR and ToT 3 times a day, on this trip it was only twice.

The pros I have mentioned already: I do not to walk as much. I used to crisscross parks all the time to get extra FPs. And you know what? It was typical to end the night with at least one if not two or three unused FP sets. So my extra walking was all in vain. That always frustrated me. I knew how I hoofed it across a park in the heat to get the FP set while the others in my crew were sitting down for lunch in a nice air conditioned restaurant. Then we never got to use that FP. Do for me, it was the extra walking to get the FP, plus the extra walking to get FPs we never in fact used. That was a drain on my energy. But it was also time I had to leave my family - so I had less time with them. I would say it averaged 10-30 minutes a day depending on the park.

So now, I am not spending that time. I get to enjoy things a slow down a little more now than I allowed myself before because of the mad race to "get that one extra FP set". That was especially nice in March with DW since it was just the two of us.

DW and I are in our 50's now and she has some health issues that drain her energy a bit. So I try to minimize excessive walking for her. This worked to perfection on one of our Epcot days. We entered the main entrance at RD and went straight to Soarin. From there we basically made our way back slightly to the Seas area and had an early lunch there. Then across to the Mission Space, and finally into World Showcase going clockwise. We did the new FEA with FP, visited most of the national pavilions along the way, had dinner there, watched aconcert at America Gardens, and finally left by the International Gateway to grab an Uber back to our hotel. It was a fairly linear path and involved at most 2 miles of walking inside Epcot.

For me that is a big "pro" for FP+. I was able to make FP+ times and ADR times to minimize walking and - bottom line which is always important - have a more relaxed and stress-free time with DW.

For me there is a positive tradeoff for what I have gained from FP+ compared to the headliners I have lost. I understand YMMV. I was initially prepared to despise FP+. I found I did not. I am not a huge proponent now. I just know that it has some advantages I did not anticipate and it is not as bad as many people predicted it would be. For me at least.

:wizard:
I really don't want to get into a big back and forth and derail this thread any further. I just wanted to comment that while we have mostly swapped to DLR since FP+ rolled out, we have been back to WDW in that time and used the FP+ system.

And honestly, time enforcement has been around since what? 2012? All of my thoughts and comparisons are based on the system post time enforcement. I agree the glory days of late FPs are long gone and it's a waste of breath to compare with that or long for something that hasn't existed for 5 years.

The most important part of your post was the "YMMV" part. It is very much an individual decision. What works for one person may not work for another.
 
I think FP+ is much better for those like my family that rarely spend full days in a park.

It's especially nice if you want to enter at 4:30 for nighttime entertainment to still ride headliners. We are still in Ride swap territory, so we tend to build them up early in the trip, then sleep in, enjoy the day and do late entry with RS and FP+ and still ride the best rides
 
I think FP+ is much better for those like my family that rarely spend full days in a park.

It's especially nice if you want to enter at 4:30 for nighttime entertainment to still ride headliners. We are still in Ride swap territory, so we tend to build them up early in the trip, then sleep in, enjoy the day and do late entry with RS and FP+ and still ride the best rides
This is one of the major "pros" of FP+.

On May 28th we are planning a rest day by the pool at WDW, but I decided to head into AK about 6PM to get another shot at Pandora. And see Rivers of Light. I have those FPs now and would never a million years be able to get those under legacy FP. In that sense this is adding three headliners to my trip I could not have done before. So that balances out to some degree the loss of headliners from other days I discussed in a PP.

:wizard:
 
Now that all the "fun" has passed, I'll chime in. When I first came to DL, I kept thinking that TSMM and Matterhorn would really benefit from FPs. I've never waited less than 40 minutes for TSMM, and I always thought it strange that such a popular attraction didn't have a FP. Same with Matterhorn. Honestly, I do that ride once a trip, so getting a FP to just hit it and go would be beneficial. However, the extra lines it will create may not be worth it. I guess time will tell.
 
Just got back from a 5 day trip, and the Parks were really Busy this last week. Add on the New FP for those rides and it made it alittle tough. But I always use fast pass and I like it. I really like TSM and was always bummed to wait 40mins-60mins so FP is nice to me. But It was busy everywhere this past week. Bunch of Groups. I'm going to write a trip report also and Youtube Videos if anyone is interested :)
 
We liked them having FP. We waited in line for TSMM last week and it was average..and then the next time got a FP. Matterhorn FP was great. I'm a fan of both personally.
 












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