Second Bay Lake Tower

That vacant area near MK, and also outside the frame to the right, near TTC, is one area rumored to not be able to support a large structure.

Wasn't the Mediterranean resort supposed to be built between TTC and the CR (left of the photo)?

That's too bad if the area to the right of the CR in the photo (towards MK) isn't cost effective to build on. I was hoping Disney was saving that for a future resort expansion and would eventually do something like the BW area has.

Last year, I saw maps of the Disney geography and what is suitable to be built on, but can't figure out where I saw them.
 
I said it before and I will say it again, I doubt we will ever see a 2nd Bay Lake Tower built for several reasons.

The South Garden Wing rooms got the full renovation as all the Tower rooms.

The Contemporary is also a convention resort and needs extra rooms when booking conventions, because with just the Tower rooms it will be impossible to get a reservation there.

They can not build another skybridge to the 4th floor because of Chef Mickey's, so how else can people get to the 4th floor if they did build another one?

The South Garden Wing rooms are the least expensive rooms among the Monorail Resorts and makes them very popular and is one reason why they sell out very fast.
 
If we assume that the land cannot support a second tower structure at the Contemporay, then the next locations with the most available land near MK would be either Grand Floridian or an expansion of VWL. Given the popularity of the Poly with cash guests, and the limited ground availability, I don't see Disney allowing demolition of existing buildings for DVC there.

You know, it's kinda funny when I hear this argument because, just as I suspected, when I approached my BIL, who is one of the most respected engineers in NY/NJ about this problem, he laughed. He told me exactly what I already pretty much knew. If you drive enough pylons deep enough in the ground, you can build all of Disney World on top of it on a stick so can we finally let this reason die? LOL

BTW, he's DVC too. :)
 
If you drive enough pylons deep enough in the ground

But how much is that feat going to cost? If it's lots & lots and REALLY deep, it could end up being big bucks. :eek: I do agree though- enough speculation on that as a reason. I think South Garden Wings sell out is a likely enough of a reason to NOT build BLT2... Having different price levels of rooms near the monorail is good, just like val-mod-del; something to capture everyone's $$$. ;)
 

Ever seen the support structure (underground engineering) for Spaceship Earth? GOOD GOD. It may cost a lot of money to you and me but in the scheme of things for Disney, if they REALLY wanted to build a tower there, I assure you that the cost of the pylons wouldn't stop the project as it would simply be absorbed in the cost of the villas (read: points).

I would suspect that the depth and number of pylons is being greatly exagerrated by our WAG's. I'm convinced that the underpinning alone wouldn't stop the project in and of itself but there are certainly a lot of other reasons it will never be done IMHO. I'm just saying that the cost of building it isn't enough alone to stop it. That's all.
 
I like the pic as well, thanks for posting it! :thumbsup2 But isn't TTC to the LEFT from this angle? :confused3

:rotfl2: Yes. I am somewhat ambidextrous, so confuse right and left often. My Mom is even worse, she has full writing capability with either hand, and does some things right handed and others left handed.
 
:rotfl2: Yes. I am somewhat ambidextrous, so confuse right and left often. My Mom is even worse, she has full writing capability with either hand, and does some things right handed and others left handed.

thank you - so that is my problem. can use both hands but no one ever say before that is why can't tell my right from my left..,

thanks!!!
 
The South Garden Wing rooms are the least expensive rooms among the Monorail Resorts and makes them very popular and is one reason why they sell out very fast.


look at from Disney point of view. do you kept cheap rooms in a great location or do you put something in there that will earn you money.

you can see from SSR, AKV and BLT - they are electing to put something that makes money NOW.

disney is first a business.
 
My understanding is that when they did core samples of the site in preparation for BLT they found the South Garden area wouldn't support the weight of a second tower.

Where did you find that information from?
 
You know, it's kinda funny when I hear this argument because, just as I suspected, when I approached my BIL, who is one of the most respected engineers in NY/NJ about this problem, he laughed. He told me exactly what I already pretty much knew. If you drive enough pylons deep enough in the ground, you can build all of Disney World on top of it on a stick so can we finally let this reason die? LOL

BTW, he's DVC too. :)

That sounds more like it:thumbsup2
 
You know, it's kinda funny when I hear this argument because, just as I suspected, when I approached my BIL, who is one of the most respected engineers in NY/NJ about this problem, he laughed. He told me exactly what I already pretty much knew. If you drive enough pylons deep enough in the ground, you can build all of Disney World on top of it on a stick so can we finally let this reason die? LOL

BTW, he's DVC too. :)

Based on this, Disney would be smart to build the next WDW DVC in the BW/DHS area.
 
look at from Disney point of view. do you kept cheap rooms in a great location or do you put something in there that will earn you money.

you can see from SSR, AKV and BLT - they are electing to put something that makes money NOW.

disney is first a business.
Well I also see a huge waste of money renovating the South Garden Wing rooms only wanting demolish them a few years later. Anyway like I said before I don't see this ever happening so I am not going to worry about it.
 
I was going by Google Earth images, which, unfortunately, do not show topography or designated wetland areas. There is a lot of land in the general area of WL/VWL, but it may be under a wetland zone.

There is a nice size area of vacant land near GF, as well. Just North of what appears to be an employee parking lot and maintenance building. But it is inland and across the road from the main resort, so no spectacular lake views. And quite a hike to the Monorail.

The best area would be a new resort, between TTC and CR/BLT, on Seven Seas Lagoon, but I've heard that land also can not support a structure.

..ever play around with an interactive GIS (Geographical Information System)? Here's Orange county: http://ocgis1.ocfl.net/imf/imf.jsp?site=orangecFL
You can get aerial (sat) photo up to 6 in resolution, Environmental info like soils (I imagine surface for ag use), topography (Although it seems topography needs to be zoomed out farther than the sat photo...)
 
Some Dvcers wonder if Disney will build a second tower at Bay Lake. Now, there are lots of reasons why it couldn’t or shouldn’t happen. But lets assume for the sake of discussion that a second tower is built, and that it is identical to the present tower in size. Also, lets assume that the second tower, called BLT-2, is built where the South Garden rooms are now located and that it is part of the Bay Lake Resort.

How will a second tower affect the point chart for an enlarged BLT?

BLT-1 will have about 5.73 million points allocated to it when it is fully declared. If BLT-2 is identical to BLT-1, then it, too, will have the same 5.73 million points allocated to it. This is because all accommodations of similar size at the same resort must be allotted the same number of points. At BLT-1, a two-bedroom accommodation is allotted 19,640 points and a Grand Villa is allotted 34,975 points. That same points-to-size/accommodation formula will have to be used at BLT-2. This means that BLT’s point chart will now have to account for twice as many points, or 11.46 million points

Now, lets assume that the Contemporary’s A-frame building blocks views of MK from BLT-2, so BLT-2 won’t have any MK views. In fact, some of BLT-2’s accommodations might have to be downgraded from MK to Standard. Just a drop from MK to LV would result in a loss of about 275,000 booking points at BLT-2, and it would be a greater loss if villas had to be downgraded to the Standard View category.

On its point chart, a resort’s relative total points can’t go up, but they also can’t go down. If BLT-2 cannot generate 275,000 booking points, then those points must be made up by the other accommodations at BLT, both at BLT-1 and BLT-2. Thus, the entire BLT resort might see a slight increase of a point or two per night in all booking categories to handle BLT-2’s shortfall.

There are other ways that BLT-2’s shortfall could be made up. One way is to create separate booking categories at BLT-2 that charge more than comparable LV and Standard views at BLT-1. But why would someone want to pay more at BLT-2 for the same LV as at BLT-1?

Another way to make up the point difference is to create a new category at BLT-2, such as a Concierge Level, which charges as many, if not more, points as the MK category. Like AKV’s Concierge Level, the additional point charges are not based on views but amenities offered.

Of course, one way to keep from having a second tower adversely affect BLT is to make BLT-2 into its own DVC resort. That way, its not encumbered with BLT-1’s point structure and can have its own accommodation formula.
I'm confused... Why would the second tower need to have the same number of points as the first?
Just because it has the same number and size of rooms doesn't mean it can't have different view categories.
It's late so perhaps I'm missing your point.

MG
 
Well I also see a huge waste of money renovating the South Garden Wing rooms only wanting demolish them a few years later. Anyway like I said before I don't see this ever happening so I am not going to worry about it.

Not necessarily. They needed it to continue to rent them out at the CR premium price. And Disney refurbs rooms on a schedule. By the time a second tower might be built the depreciation will have been taken on the refurb.

Also, a second tower wouldn't have to be all DVC. AKV Jambo house is a combination although it started hotel first. Hawaii is to be a mixed use. I think it would only take a couple of floors of a new tower to replace the existing South Garden Wing should Disney decide that it were necessary to maintain the current number of rooms at CR.

Another point you gave was not being able to build a 4th floor walkway. I don't see that as a stopping point either. It would just remain the same as the Garden Wings always were - a path on the ground level. That's not changing anything from other DVC's (like VWL).

Still, I'd throw my guess out that it will not be the next DVC on site. Maybe sometime in the future but not next.
 
Hawaii is to be a mixed use.

I'm thinking that Hawaii will be mixed use similar to the other mixed use resorts, with a cash wing and a DVC/Villa wing. Though they could make it similar to Vero Beach, and sell the Inn rooms to DVCers as well..but then it really wouldn't be mixed use, it would be fully DVC, like OKW ad SSR...a DVC resort that rents cash reservation to offset trades and breakage.

Or they could do it like Jambo house, with Villas on certain floors and cash rooms on other floors.

But I really think it will be like BWV and BCV, a "resort within a resort."
 
Also, a second tower wouldn't have to be all DVC. AKV Jambo house is a combination although it started hotel first. Hawaii is to be a mixed use. I think it would only take a couple of floors of a new tower to replace the existing South Garden Wing should Disney decide that it were necessary to maintain the current number of rooms at CR.

Good point. To that end, couldn't they also make it fully NON-DVC and use that to replace the rooms lost by eliminating both the North and South garden wings to return CR to previous (or even greater) capacity? Not saying they ever would, just more wild speculations... ;)
 
I'm thinking that Hawaii will be mixed use similar to the other mixed use resorts, with a cash wing and a DVC/Villa wing.

That is what they've announced so far:

http://resorts.disney.go.com/aulani-hawaii-resort/

The design of the Resort honors Hawaiian tradition in its village concept, including hotel rooms, Disney Vacation Club Villas, meeting rooms and wedding facilities-spread over 21 wondrous acres.

In other articles I've seen hard numbers; about 360 hotel / 481 2BR equiv. DVC IIRC...
 
When we did the BLT tour and sat with a guide afterwards to add on points, I mentioned a second tower to fill out the second ear and his response was that I was right on target. Now was that a real indication, or him just wanting me to feel smarter
 



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