Scotland Meets Thread (formerly Scotland: A Brave Adventure)

[Miss SD]

Thanks for the report, MissSD. Sorry your trip was such a mixed bag, but it sounds like you had a good time overall!

Sayhello

We did have fun. I think we were spoiled by our Germany trip. Granted, that itinerary has been around for years so our tour ran like clockwork. Could be first-year jitters or maybe they should change the handbooks to reflect what will really happen.

 

[paddles]

Hi All! We were also on the June 30th trip with MissSD, and I would say our feedback is very similar.

Scotland is a beautiful country, and the people are incredibly friendly!! The itinerary is really great and you get to see a lot of Scotland.

Some thoughts/tips for the trip:

- This tour is very light on history...and at times, I think the guides missed really good opportunities to include some commentary on areas we were visiting or places we passed along on our bus rides. I highly encourage you to spend at least 1-2 extra days in Edinburgh to really get more history & see the sites. The tour is focused on 'Brave', so key sites like Stirling Castle and Wallace monument are skipped. We hired a private driver/car for one day, and I'm so glad we did! That said, I really wish we had had one additional day in Edinburgh because it really is an amazing city.

- it would have been great to have one Scottish guide. On all other tours, there's typically one American and one local country ABD guide. I think it would have added to the authenticity of the experience and afford the ability to ask questions/get additional insights into the country. Not sure why ABD didn't do this for Scotland....

- At Rothiemurchus estate, I encourage you to skip either the biking or horseback riding to participate in the jeep tour (that's alternative to those activities). We skipped the biking and really enjoyed the jeep tour with a local guide who took us to a deer farm and showed us around the beautiful estate.

- pack lots of layers. We had some nice days in Inverness, but Skye and Isle of Lewis were pretty cold (at least to us Texans....)

- only other thing to comment is that over 60% of our group were contest winners and that sort of changed the dynamic/personality of the tour (especially when there were a few folks who didn't look very excited to be there....). I hope Disney doesn't do that again - they should stagger the winners on different tours.

Overall, it was a great trip and i'm glad we went. For those who have booked the trip, you'll really enjoy it - ABD does a great job of adding amazing extras/exclusive activities. And if you're a big fan of 'Braveheart' or 'Outlander', make sure you add extra days to see additional sites and get more of the history if that's what you're looking for.

We're booked on the Central europe trip for next summer, so I'll make sure to add several extra days this time since I'm a big history buff

 

[Miss SD]

only other thing to comment is that over 60% of our group were contest winners and that sort of changed the dynamic/personality of the tour (especially when there were a few folks who didn't look very excited to be there....). I hope Disney doesn't do that again - they should stagger the winners on different tours.

Hi, paddles! That was strange, wasn't it? Some of them looked like they weren't sure what they'd gotten themselves into. Group travel like this isn't for everyone. I think some of them didn't realize this until they were on the bus with three dozen strangers.

 

[calypso726]

Thanks for the feedback Miss SD and Paddles. I am surprised to hear there is no local guide for the tour. I thought that was standard practice for ABD in order to provide cultural authenticity. I am also shocked to hear that not much opportunity for learning the historical content of the places visited is provided either.

I take it no explanation was given regarding throwing out the stroll on Staffin Beach and the other changes besides Holyrood Palace. That would upset me. I would want an explanation. I understand a change from Holyrood Palace if the Queen is in residence. That isn't something that is within ABD's control.

Fortunately, we are arriving a few days early. However, based on your feedback I will be making changes to our pre-arrival itinerary. Our group doesn't get dinner in the castle due to the Royal Edinburgh Military Tattoo taking place. We were told we still get a tour on day 3. However, if it is to be as brief as what you experienced and not include the whole castle then I will make other arrangements. I have cancelled our scheduled Hairy Coo tour and plan to go explore the entire castle instead plus walk around the city.

Thanks for the heads up as well about Rothiemurchus estate alternatives. As much as I would enjoy horseback riding or bike riding I would rather spend time with a local guide if that is the only opportunity to do so.

I am cracking up about the comment of contest winners who weren't excited to be there. Did someone force them to enter a contest they didn't want to win or accept the grand prize I am envisioning the proverbial "gun to the head" of these contest winners with an authoritative figure shouting, "YOU WILL GO ON VACATION TO A BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY FOR FREE OR ELSE!!!"

 

[carpenta]

With regards to the Junior Adventure night I too as our daughter was disappointed with the evening she had on our recent tour to Az. The kids were gathered in a room and shown a movie. Plus the night was scheduled on the last leg of the trip. In my opinion they should place it in the beginning so the kids can get to know each other better earlier.Other tours with ABD they did have different games and events planned. If I wanted our child to watch videos we could have stayed home.

 

[sayhello]

Hi, paddles! That was strange, wasn't it? Some of them looked like they weren't sure what they'd gotten themselves into. Group travel like this isn't for everyone. I think some of them didn't realize this until they were on the bus with three dozen strangers.

A lot of people enter sweepstakes without knowing exactly what they are entering for. So many people hear "Adventures by Disney" and say "Yes! I'd love to go to Disney World!" (Seriously. Check out ABD's Facebook page. It's kinda sad.) Generally, because of the cost, most folks on ABDs have really thought it through, and really want to be there. Being on a tour with a lot of folks not familiar with what ABD is, and not knowing what to expect, and maybe not being the type of family that travels that way well -- I never really thought about it! I know someone on this board reported that they had the family of a "celebrity" on their ABD (I think it may have been a Disney bigwig) and that made for a strange dynamic on their tour, too).

I am cracking up about the comment of contest winners who weren't excited to be there. Did someone force them to enter a contest they didn't want to win or accept the grand prize I am envisioning the proverbial "gun to the head" of these contest winners with an authoritative figure shouting, "YOU WILL GO ON VACATION TO A BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY FOR FREE OR ELSE!!!"

Seriously, if someone in the family won the trip, the whole family is likely to go on the trip even if it's not their idea of fun or a good vacation. They wouldn't want to "waste" the trip. I imagine when entering a contest like this, they likely aren't as careful to check if it's really a trip their family would want to go on, or that suits their kids' personalities or interests. All they see is "Disney" and "free trip"!

Sayhello

 

[Miss SD]

A lot of people enter sweepstakes without knowing exactly what they are entering for. So many people hear "Adventures by Disney" and say "Yes! I'd love to go to Disney World!" (Seriously. Check out ABD's Facebook page. It's kinda sad.) Generally, because of the cost, most folks on ABDs have really thought it through, and really want to be there. Being on a tour with a lot of folks not familiar with what ABD is, and not knowing what to expect, and maybe not being the type of family that travels that way well -- I never really thought about it! I know someone on this board reported that they had the family of a "celebrity" on their ABD (I think it may have been a Disney bigwig) and that made for a strange dynamic on their tour, too).



Seriously, if someone in the family won the trip, the whole family is likely to go on the trip even if it's not their idea of fun or a good vacation. They wouldn't want to "waste" the trip. I imagine when entering a contest like this, they likely aren't as careful to check if it's really a trip their family would want to go on, or that suits their kids' personalities or interests. All they see is "Disney" and "free trip"!

Sayhello

The winners were taxed on the value of the trip so they knew what we paying customers shelled out for the tour. Several of them told me they didn't think the trip was worth the "list price." Made me feel like a sucker!

 

[edinburghlass]

Too late now but it seems that perhaps the company didn't do enough research as the Queen visits Scotland at the same time very year resulting in the closure of the Palace and the Tattoo is on for the same three/four weeks each year. So those particular changes were within the company's control and instead of having the same itinerary for all of the trips if they do the vacation again next year hopefully they will take these things into account.

Those that do get to see the Tattoo I'm sure you will enjoy enormously and of course your days in Edinburgh.

 

[sayhello]

The winners were taxed on the value of the trip so they knew what we paying customers shelled out for the tour. Several of them told me they didn't think the trip was worth the "list price." Made me feel like a sucker!

Just because they don't understand or appreciate the value of the trip does not make you a "sucker". Plenty of people don't think ABD's are worth the money, and they just don't take the trips. I think there is a particular type of traveler that ABDs are meant for, and appeal to, and those of us in that category appreciate that the trips are expensive, but worth it.

Honestly, what did they get, if they took a trip they didn't like?

Sayhello

 

[sayhello]

Too late now but it seems that perhaps the company didn't do enough research as the Queen visits Scotland at the same time very year resulting in the closure of the Palace and the Tattoo is on for the same three/four weeks each year. So those particular changes were within the company's control and instead of having the same itinerary for all of the trips if they do the vacation again next year hopefully they will take these things into account.

Those that do get to see the Tattoo I'm sure you will enjoy enormously and of course your days in Edinburgh.

I tend to agree with you, and it surprises me, because normally ABD is all about the in-depth research. But these issues they have had with this itinerary couldn't have been surprises, because, as you say, they are normal events that happen every year at the same time.

Sayhello

 

[Miss SD]

Just because they don't understand or appreciate the value of the trip does not make you a "sucker". Plenty of people don't think ABD's are worth the money, and they just don't take the trips. I think there is a particular type of traveler that ABDs are meant for, and appeal to, and those of us in that category appreciate that the trips are expensive, but worth it.

Honestly, what did they get, if they took a trip they didn't like?

Sayhello

In fairness, the three groups I'm thinking of had legitimate reasons (well, two of the three) for souring on the trip. One group included a disabled family member. Getting him off the bus took a while, and they often found the rest of us were nowhere to be seen once they were off the coach. They felt the guides ditched them. The other family included an active boy who was frequently yelled at by a guide. A particularly nasty scene occurred in a castle gift shop. Thankfully, a fellow adventurer vouched for the kid, saying he didn't do anything wrong.

I don't think these people started out with a chip on their shoulders.

 

[Calfan]

The tour is focused on 'Brave', so key sites like Stirling Castle and Wallace monument are skipped. We hired a private driver/car for one day, and I'm so glad we did!

We're booked on the Central europe trip for next summer, so I'll make sure to add several extra days this time since I'm a big history buff

Who did you use for your private car/driver for your visit to Stirling? We are contemplating using one of our pre-days to visit Stirling.

We are also booked on the Central Europe ABD for next summer. We plan to spend 3 or 4 days in Prague before the ABD begins.

 

[paddles]

Just to clarify my post, there are local guides/experts at the places we visited to explain things. However, there was a lot of travel time with just the 2 American ABD guides when little to no commentary was provided (and on day 3,we were on the bus for nearly 6 hours). And some key historical sites were skipped since this was a 'Brave' focused tour (like Culloden battlefield in Inverness).

That said, the itinerary was great but I encourage ABD to add more of the historical aspects to this trip since most who booked did so due to a love of seeing Scotland vs. 'Brave'.

I'm providing this detail since this is a new itinerary and I wish I had some of this info before planning my trip. I hope I don't sound negative because my family had a great time and I think a few tweaks would make this just incredible (especially since ABD is charging nearly $1000 more next summer with essentially no changes to the itinerary).

 

[paddles]

Who did you use for your private car/driver for your visit to Stirling? We are contemplating using one of our pre-days to visit Stirling.

We are also booked on the Central Europe ABD for next summer. We plan to spend 3 or 4 days in Prague before the ABD begins.

We asked the concierge at Balmoral hotel to book it for us. Our driver's name was David and he was great. They charged approx. 50 pounds per hour and it was worth every penny. Stirling castle is fantastic and they have interesting free tours there. Wallace monument is a must see if you love Braveheart.

 

[jjharts]

We were on the June 9th tour and experienced a lot of the same things that the are being brought up. More than half the people on our trip were also "winners" of the trip. I agree that this did change the dynamics of our trip. I think that Disney should have put all the "winners" on one trip together.

Also, we did not go to Holyrood (we were told that a royal was in town), did not stroll Staffin Beach (we were told that it was too slippery out on the rocks), no highland games on Jr Adventurer night, did not learn Ceilidh dancing (but those kids were adorable), lunch at Digby Chicks, ate inside at Glamis (we also didn't get much archery time - I only shot 2 sets of arrows), and were rushed thru Edinburgh Castle to see Crown Jewels.

On the positive side, we totally enjoyed that it was a "Brave" adventure - that was the main reason I booked this particular itinerary. There were some neat surprises along the way and the country is beautiful. At Rothiemurchus my husband was able to do skeet shooting while we went pony riding. We offered to pay extra for this but were not charged.

A couple of other things -

I was contacted three times by Disney the week before we left. We were arriving by train from London and they wanted to know our train number and also our weights. Three times I explained to them that our train did not have a number and that we would meet our guides in the lobby of the Balmoral at 4pm as the train station was right next door, and each time they made note of this. I also gave them our weights - my husband is a large man - 6'2" and weighs in at 300 lbs. They said he wouldn't be able to ride the horses (he was more than okay with this as he grew up around horses and rode them enough as a child!!). Upon arriving at the Balmoral at 4:00 there was no guide to greet us - after waiting for 20 minutes the bell man felt sorry for us and rounded up our guide. We also found out that my dh couldn't do the canoeing at Loch Ness because of weight (no mention of this from Disney).

Neither of our guides were from Scotland. I had planned my tips assuming that one would be a local so at the end of the tour I had to flip a coin to see which on ended up with gbp instead of usd. Oh well

All in all, it was a good trip. I hope Disney does more destinations bases around movies (maybe one for Frozen when it comes out!!!)

 

[sayhello]

In fairness, the three groups I'm thinking of had legitimate reasons (well, two of the three) for souring on the trip. One group included a disabled family member. Getting him off the bus took a while, and they often found the rest of us were nowhere to be seen once they were off the coach. They felt the guides ditched them. The other family included an active boy who was frequently yelled at by a guide. A particularly nasty scene occurred in a castle gift shop. Thankfully, a fellow adventurer vouched for the kid, saying he didn't do anything wrong.

I don't think these people started out with a chip on their shoulders.

Wow. Both of these items seem to be issues with your Guides! I can't imagine both Guides taking off until everyone was off the bus. One of the best things about having 2 Guides is that one can stay behind with anyone who needs them while the other takes care of the rest. Yes, the Guides are not allowed to physically help with someone with a disability, but I'm shocked that one of them did not wait with the bus until that family was off. And, granted, I've only taken one Family ABD (the rest were Adults Only), but I've *NEVER* heard an Adventure Guide yell at anyone, and certainly not *frequently* yelling at them. Was an Adventure Guide involved in the "scene" at the Gift Shop? I'd be disappointed/soured on the trip under both of those conditions, too... Man, this just so doesn't fit with the amazing Adventure Guides I've experienced on my trips. I wonder what happened?

Sayhello

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

First, this definitely is a "Brave" adventure. If you're looking for a historical tour of Scotland, this isn't it. (As someone else pointed out during the trip, this is the "Brave" adventure, not the "Braveheart" tour.)

For instance, if we wanted to see everything at Edinburgh Castle, we had to go on our own. The guides told us on the first day that the last day of the tour included a visit only to the Scottish Crown Jewels, which are housed at the castle. We were lucky that we arrived a few hours before our welcome dinner so we could see the rest of the castle.

We didn't stroll on the Staffin Beach on Skye as was promised, and we didn't "line up for some Ceilidh dancing" (thank God). We did, however, see a group of cute and talented girls perform!

So I don't come across as too whiny, I should add that the Farewell Dinner was awesome! Being the only people in the castle was unbelievable, especially since we were fighting the crowds there a week before!

Thanks to you (and Paddles) for the feedback. I'm trying not to feel disappointed by the reports, but on top of the Edinburgh Castle disappointment (we are on one of the tours that is missing the castle dinner--you can read back through the threads to see what happened--and from your comments it sounds like it was as special as I thought it would be) the "fluidity" of the itinerary is beginning to sound like poor planning. I would be very disappointed to miss the stroll on the beach as that is the one part of the Skye itinerary I have not done (I've been to Skye a couple times). I hope by August they will figure out a way to make it work. I am also disappointed by the lack of history. Now granted, I am a Scottish history buff and probably biased, but IMO one of the most special things about Scotland IS the history. I love the Brave aspect, and I'm sure the kids will as well, but you would think they could find a way of blending. Not seeing Edinburgh Castle, Stirling Castle or Holyrood Castle is a huge miss--ABD absolutely SHOULD have been aware of the Tattoo and royal visits and made alternative plans if certain tours were impacted (i.e. if you couldn't visit Holyrood, why didn't they have you do a bigger tour of Edinburgh Castle or, alternatively, Stirling?)

- This tour is very light on history...and at times, I think the guides missed really good opportunities to include some commentary on areas we were visiting or places we passed along on our bus rides.
- it would have been great to have one Scottish guide. On all other tours, there's typically one American and one local country ABD guide. I think it would have added to the authenticity of the experience and afford the ability to ask questions/get additional insights into the country. Not sure why ABD didn't do this for Scotland....

I'm very confused by this as well. I hope ABD reads this and addresses ASAP--especially for those long bus rides. Scotland is so rich with history, it's a shame that they missed the opportunity to take advantage of it with a knowledgeable guide.

I take it no explanation was given regarding throwing out the stroll on Staffin Beach and the other changes besides Holyrood Palace. That would upset me. I would want an explanation. I understand a change from Holyrood Palace if the Queen is in residence. That isn't something that is within ABD's control.

Ditto! Unexplained itinerary changes *really* upset me. When you pay so much for a trip, every piece matters.

Too late now but it seems that perhaps the company didn't do enough research as the Queen visits Scotland at the same time very year resulting in the closure of the Palace and the Tattoo is on for the same three/four weeks each year. So those particular changes were within the company's control and instead of having the same itinerary for all of the trips if they do the vacation again next year hopefully they will take these things into account.

Exactly! This kind of thing is how I justify paying the premium for the ABD product. They are supposed to do their homework!

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

Wow. Both of these items seem to be issues with your Guides! I can't imagine both Guides taking off until everyone was off the bus. One of the best things about having 2 Guides is that one can stay behind with anyone who needs them while the other takes care of the rest. Yes, the Guides are not allowed to physically help with someone with a disability, but I'm shocked that one of them did not wait with the bus until that family was off. And, granted, I've only taken one Family ABD (the rest were Adults Only), but I've *NEVER* heard an Adventure Guide yell at anyone, and certainly not *frequently* yelling at them. Was an Adventure Guide involved in the "scene" at the Gift Shop? I'd be disappointed/soured on the trip under both of those conditions, too... Man, this just so doesn't fit with the amazing Adventure Guides I've experienced on my trips. I wonder what happened?
Sayhello

Double wow from me. I've only been on one ABD, but I can't imagine one of the guides yelling at someone (especially a child). The Adventure guides are always one of the most ingredients to making ABD special, and from some of these reports it sounds like something is lacking--are they new? Untrained? Isn't ABD running concurrent trips for Scotland...could that be the issue? Again, I hope ABD will address these issues immediately.

 

[Miss SD]

Double wow from me. I've only been on one ABD, but I can't imagine one of the guides yelling at someone (especially a child). The Adventure guides are always one of the most ingredients to making ABD special, and from some of these reports it sounds like something is lacking--are they new? Untrained? Isn't ABD running concurrent trips for Scotland...could that be the issue? Again, I hope ABD will address these issues immediately.

I don't know what the story was. I think they said they had led many trips in the spring, so I think they considered themselves experienced. After I asked why we weren't going to Holyroodhouse (no group announcement was made; I approached them), I decided to keep a low profile. Since I had already mentioned that I didn't receive my Insider pin, I didn't want to be seen as the complainer of the group.

But, as I mentioned to paddles during our trip, the guides seemed to lack the gravitas (the only word I can think of) of our Germany guides. Daniel and Nadine were the consummate professionals. I can't imagine one of them reprimanding a grown man for trying to grab a snack as he got off the bus.

 

[sayhello]

I don't know what the story was. I think they said they had led many trips in the spring, so I think they considered themselves experienced. After I asked why we weren't going to Holyroodhouse (no group announcement was made; I approached them), I decided to keep a low profile. Since I had already mentioned that I didn't receive my Insider pin, I didn't want to be seen as the complainer of the group.

But, as I mentioned to paddles during our trip, the guides seemed to lack the gravitas (the only word I can think of) of our Germany guides. Daniel and Nadine were the consummate professionals. I can't imagine one of them reprimanding a grown man for trying to grab a snack as he got off the bus.

Seriously???? OMG, that is so unprofessional and so petty. The Guides I've had would have asked him if he maybe wanted two snacks instead of just one! I'm sorry, but I am SO GLAD I was not on this trip. The Adventure Guides really make the trips for me, and according to what you've described, these guys just did not live up to the title of ABD Adventure Guide.

Sayhello