Schooling vent

[greens_in_WA]

I hope I don't sound horribly selfish or like a bad Mom, but I'm terribly frustrated with my DD8's schooling. She's an August baby so is young for 3rd grade, but she is seriously struggling. She was a *very* difficult baby/toddler which was often attributed to her being intelligent. She's always seemed smart to me (biased Mom??), but she has really struggled off and on in school. Last year wasn't bad, but in first grade she had some Title I support for Math. This year, she's still really struggling with reading. She's still confusing b's and d's (sometimes q's and p's). Sometimes it seems like she can't see the letters on the page. Her teacher doesn't think its dyslexia, but I'm not so sure. Not sure how to help her and get her the support she needs.

She is in Title I, getting pulled out for reading help during classroom time, and getting before school reading help. The problem with the help in the classroom is that she's now getting behind on their class project. How can she go out of the room for 30-45 minutes and not miss something? That would seem obvious for any kid.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far. Just needed to let off some frustration. She's a sweetheart, but school was always *super* easy for me, I'm finding it really hard to relate to.

 

[ekmom]

Has her vision been tested? My daughter had a lazy eye and she went through vision therapy which was a big help with her reading. Before that she seemed to miss small words and struggle with losing her place on the page. Google it, there is lots of info out there.

 

[MM27]

Does she wear glasses? Perhaps she's having difficulty with letters because she can't see them

I teach in a title I school and between two classes that I teach I have 17 title I students. My school does what they call "push in" for title I. The teacher comes to the room instead of pulling the kids out so that they don't miss what's going on in the classroom and that the other teacher can gear their instruction around what we are doing, just with added support. It works pretty well.

 

[shelly3girls]

I personally would have her independently evaluated by someone who specializes in learning disabilities. Many people will tell you that it is the school's responsibility but that could take a very long time. If she does have a disability then you will be a step ahead in knowing the type of help she needs. Like you, school was always very easy for me so it is difficult to understand the challenges my DD faces. It helps a great deal to know exactly what the learning issue is when you decide what type of help to seek. Sometimes even minor accomodations make a big difference. Good luck!

 

[brymolmom]

Good for you for staying on top of it! Here's the thing from an outside perspective: It is a GOOD thing that they're pulling her out for the extra help she needs - Not all schools will do that so much. She NEEDS the extra help to 'catch up' and be at a good level for continuing on in school. If she falls behind in the classroom project - which, like you said, will obviously happen - you need to get the instructions from the teacher and work on that at home with her to keep her up to date on that. Teachers only have so many hours in a day to fit stuff in - so something has to be missed if she is getting pulled out for individual attention.

Intelligence comes in MANY different formats. Just because she needs extra help does not mean she's not intelligent. Perhaps you just haven't found her strong suit yet- music, science, math...Lots of areas it might emerge.

At this point, if it were my child, I would focus ALL of my (and the teachers and schools) on getting her reading up to par. Get any and all extra help you can for her. If needed, by a certain point get her evaluated outside of school. My best friend's son just got evaluated at Sylvan learning center and they told her that he should improve 1 grade level in reading for every 2 - 3 months he spends there. Something like this might be hugely beneficial NOW for her as reading is the basis for ALL LEARNING from about this age on. So if you working with the school on it does not bring a light at the end of the tunnel soon - I would investigate other options like this!

Best of luck!

 

[cam&phoebsmom]

I taught 3rd grade for many years. 3rd grade seems to be when things either totally "click" for struggling students or you can see things start to unravel and then it is time to step in and get some testing done.

Still confusing letters in 3rd grade sends up a red flag that there are some issues that need to be looked into. If she has been receiving assistance since 1st grade and is still struggling, they need to look further to identify and put in place a plan to help your daughter and give her not only intervention but begin a plan and document what modifications are needed for her to be successful in the classroom.

Ask for testing for your daughter (beyond her qualifying for Title 1 assistance) which would include an IQ test. There is also a test that determines at what level she is working. If there is a discrepancy with her IQ and her working level they should be able to better pinpoint if she has a learning disability and/or where to go from there. With standardized testing being so commonplace in the schools there needs to be modifications for her in the form of an IEP so as she gets older they are already documented and established.

Put the request in writing and ask for a conference with the teacher and reading specialist by a specific date (like within 2 weeks of you sending it in). Once a parent requests things in writing it is more likely to get done in a timely manner. When you go into the conference have a list of concerns (you may want to include these in the request letter). Include the letter confusion (b/d) and any other issues that you see she struggles with.

good luck!

 

[lulu2]

Google: Davis dyslexia. Best of luck to your family!

 

[karliebug]

She may have a learning disability or she may just not be developmentally ready for all the things being thrown at her. Especially if she is a "summer baby". Learning to read is a developmental task, just as is toilet training. Some kids are "ready" sooner than others. It may be that she is "overplaced" and is really developmentally more like a second grader. Have the teachers ever suggested that she repeat a grade? (K,!,2). If so, seriously consider it. Give her the gift of time.Childhood should be a journey,not a race. I have 26 years of teaching experience.

 

[greens_in_WA]

Thank you all for your helpful information.

To clarify, she was in Title I for math in 1st grade, but didn't have any Title I support in 2nd. She was *very* behind in her dibels testing at the beginning of this year, 3rd grade, and is now on Title I support again. Her reading is now at the bottom of grade level, vs. well below - which means she's improving - yay!

I'm not sure if she's in the wrong grade level or not. Our district has a reputation though of making it *very* difficult to repeat a grade - even as early as Kindergarten. She did have a really good pre-k program that did a kindergarten readiness test that she succeeded well at, so there were no concerns about starting her at 5. Socially, and emotionally she seems well placed. The information is not beyond her grasp, but reading is a stumbling block.

Vision is being tested next week, but previous visits to the eye dr. haven't revealed anything. I will point out the reading difficulties though so he can take a closer look.

Is Sylvan the best (only) place to have her tested for a learning disability outside of school? I'll try the school track, but everything costs money, and they are so hestitant. I appreciate the suggestion of putting it in writing.

Thanks again.

 

[Nicolepa]

Thank you all for your helpful information.

Is Sylvan the best (only) place to have her tested for a learning disability outside of school? I'll try the school track, but everything costs money, and they are so hestitant. I appreciate the suggestion of putting it in writing.

Thanks again.

Are you in WA state? If so what district? I personally would stay away from Sylvan until at least you establish that she does need a lot of help. Everything I've heard is that they are expensive and lock you into a year at a time. I KNOW there are private testing places but I don't know what they are. I would call your pediatrician and ask them where you should take her to be tested.

My son was struggling last year and was getting special reading help 3x a week. All I heard was how far behind he was and he was getting frustrated because he "wasn't good at reading". I pulled him out of school this year (for lots of reasons) and he is doing a virtual academy. He is doing wonderful now. Reading chapter books on his own (Magic Treehouse, A to Z Mysteries, Geronomo Stilton). Last year all he would tell me was I'm no good at reading.

I personally think that the schools, at least in my area, put so much pressure on them that they feel like a failure before they even get started so they don't give their best. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[greens_in_WA]

Yes, I'm in Washington State. Thanks for the headsup on Sylvan. I was guessing that they are expensive. She was excited to go to reading before school today and asked if she could come more - transportation's an issue for more than 2 days.

 

[Cadiewampus]

Yes, I'm in Washington State. Thanks for the headsup on Sylvan. I was guessing that they are expensive. She was excited to go to reading before school today and asked if she could come more - transportation's an issue for more than 2 days.

Could you get a tutor to come in and help. I know when my high schooler was younger he was having some trouble. We called his school and they had a list of teachers that did tutoring. She came in once a week for an hour and I think it was $100.00 a month

 

[cam&phoebsmom]

The reason I would suggest really pushing the school testing route is that if they do the testing then you will have on record what kind of support she needs. It may seem odd now, but by 5th grade and going into middle school the accomodations that an elementary teacher makes will not necessarily be done by a middle school teacher UNLESS it is documented and in her file and she has an IEP in place.

Yes, schools are reluctant to test sometimes due to the cost, but from my experience they were thorough and they were able to have testing done by a psychologist, as well as observations by the reading specialist. Tutoring places can for sure be a help, but schools really do not care at all what a paid tutoring place says with their testing-they will take any of their findings and look at them as part of what they take into consideration, but unless you have her tested and disagree with the findings I would go the school route before paying out of pocket if possible.

 

[robinsegg]

Do you know how dd learns? It sounds like she may *not* be a visual learner. If so, you may need to find other ways to help her learn to read. Have you considered Reader Rabbit or some such computer program?

 

[jessica29]

I am a intervention specialist and it sound like she very well need to be tested to be put in special education and be on an IEP( this does not mean she has to be failing in all academic areas). Remember, special ed is different from when we were younger. It includes inclusion at most districts where the teacher comes in the rooms, they make accomodations, and modifications. LD are the fastest growing in special education. It is not just handicap children. Education difficulties come in many forms.

Also push the school. They will be reluctant and it will take time. Sometimes a year. It will not cost you money it will cost the school system. In the districts by me a typical child will have $9,000 spent on education each year and a speical needs child will have $42,000 +. That is why the school will string you along. You are the parent request that their special ed teacher have a look and then the school psychologist.

Also note that The IDEA(look it up on the internet) requires schools to help children in needs. Other woods its illegal if they know she needs help and do nothing.

 

[perpetualplanner]

You stated earlier that her vision was being tested next week. Please make sure they are not simply testing acuity - she needs her tracking, etc. checked too. My son had problems reading but had 20/20 vision - his eyes didn't track together though which made it difficult for him to read. 1 year with a trained teacher and he read above grade level. Most exams only test acuity and with children MUCH more needs to be tested, especially if they are struggling.

 

[pigget74]

I am a special education teacher and have been one for years. Depending on your state it will take time for testing through the school. There has to be interventions and such before they can even be referred for testing. I know that she is in Title 1 and that could be used for Interventions, but each state has it own set of criteria on what can be used and how much time is given.

My oldest child is very bright and dyslexic. Your daughter is at an age where the reversal of letters should not be happening or at least not as much. What has me concerned and is a red flag was when you wrote that at times it appears to her that there are no words on the page. This is not dyslexia.

There is a book called, "Reading By the Colors". There are some eye conditions where certain colors make it very hard for people to read the words. The typical white background is very hard. It makes it appear as if there are no words, the words run together, the words are like rivers--a clump of words then white space and then more words--it makes a pattern on the page and is very hard to read. There are other ways this effects the student as well. This is called--Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome (SSS). I have had students that have used a blue color over lay or blue paper for all things to be printed on. There are other colors you could try as well. If you would like more information on this pm and I will be happy to discuss with you. Good luck on your journey.

 

[Rylee]

Here's our story... hope it has some info you can use.

By the time our 3rd child was between 3 - 5 years old, I saw small differences in her. Nothing alarming, I knew she was smart, but there were little clues along the way. Her pre-school teachers were teaching safety awareness, and the importance of knowing their phone number and address. They worked with her, we worked with her, her older siblings worked with her. "Say, 555-123-4567." She would try to repeat, "222-555-9999."

Over that two year period, we tried to teach her the number. Her teachers thought it was her hearing, so we had her hearing tested... 4 times in 2 years. Finally, in March of the year she would start kindergarten, I had my calculator on the table, and she said, "Look Mommy, I did our phone number!" It read, 555-123-4567. We jumped for joy! I told her how proud I was. I cleared it and said do it again... it was perfectly type out. So I took the calculator away and said, "Now, tell me what it it." She said, "626-222-9447." My heart sank. I knew something was wrong.

That same day, I contacted our school to see if and where I could get her some help. They told me a true learning disability doesn't show up until about the middle of first grade. So, we waited. Meanwhile, my child couldn't remember the lines to "Happy Birthday" (3 of the 4 lines are exactly the same) or recite simple nursery rhymes.

Kindergarten seemed to be going okay, but when I questioned her teacher about my concerns (who also had both our older girls) she called me a "worry-wart" and said I was comparing her to her sisters who were at the top of their class, this child, she said, was not at the top of her class, but right where she should be. Another year gone.

First grade - January (last Friday in Jan.) report card, I noticed they had dropped her from "On Level to Below Reading Level." Called the teacher... "No, no need for concern, lots of kids are right where she is. Just continue to work with her at home." She entered remedial reading program.

First Grade - first week of March - Received a call from the teacher... "We want to retain her in First grade." There is NO school here, the 3rd week of Feb.! So, in 15 school days, they went from, "No need for concern, to wanting to hold her back!

I made an appointment to meet with her teachers. I asked lots of questions, and asked to have her tested. They told me they didn't know if they could get her in before the end of the school year. (This was still the first week in March.)


(Some of this probably varies by state, school district, available funding, etc.)

Here in New York, I contacted the Learning Disability Association of Central New York. They sent out a packet, including a form letter to copy, inserting my daughter's name, etc., into the blanks. By putting it in writing, the school legally had 30 days in which to test her. (The CSE called me to ask where I had learned this information! hehehe)

Anyway, they tested her with the school psychologist. He got it wrong but slapped some "Borderline" label on her. (He did mention she aced the visual Memory part of the test.)

Grades 2 and 3 - More of the same. November conferences, "She's one of my best students! I don't know what you talking about." April conferences roll around, and then it was, "Gee, ya know, I think you're are right. I think she does have a problem." I didn't want to be right, just wanted her to get helped if she needed it. Two more years wasted.

Finally, with the help of her very nice 4th grade teacher, the school agreed to test her outside of the school. BINGO! Finally a name... and it all made sense.

My daughter has, and there are other names for it, Specific Language Recall Disability. The information goes in correctly, she processes it correctly, but she can't always put it back out correctly. Simple example - 2 + 2 = 4 goes into the brain, she understands 2 + 2 = 4, but when you ask her, she may not be able to come up with the word, "four." He said she had already found ways to compensate for it. He also mentioned she aced the visual memory part of the test. (One way she was managing so well.)

This Dr. put in place for her, an IEP and listed modifications that would be helpful. This was 4th grade. By the end of 6th grade, the school declassified her, saying with her averages (all above 90) they couldn't justify her need to remain in the program.

She graduated this past year... 11th in her class, (yep, just missed the top 10 and we had big tears.) She's off to a 4 year college and going for... Special Education.


I think you need to have DD tested. Start with your school and put your request in writing. If you aren't satisfied or something doesn't seem right, you may need to go outside the school. Also, have vision and hearing tested. Talk to her pediatrician. Ours was very helpful... her daughter is a special ed teacher. Be your child's advocate and do your own homework.

On a side note - I want to mention, I am happy with our school and the teachers. We've had 2 other children graduate in the Top 10 and 2 still in school. Even to best teachers/schools, though, can miss problems or be lacking the resources, funding etc., to catch all problems.

Good luck.

 

[greens_in_WA]

Thanks so much for sharing your stories and struggles. She learns and recites auditory information so well, her spatial reasoning is fantastic, its not an IQ problem. Ryllee- your story made me cry - not sure why. Its hard not to compare to my own childhood, friends' children and so forth.

pigget74 - she sees the word on the page, but the other night we were reading together and she missed a word, I pointed at it for her, and she read the same word wrong again several times, dropping the final consonant each time. It was just weird - she was really trying, but for some reason, she was not recognizing the whole word.

 

[Tistal]

Imho, as an educator myself (not special needs) with a special needs sister (high functioning autism) you need to have your child evaluated and tested. Make sure there is a paper trail whatever you do. Make and keep copies of everything and start a file.

My parents struggled (and still do, I'm much older than my sister) with getting her the help she needs. They live in a rural area, and the school system hates doing anything to help her because it costs them money.

Admittedly, it was hard on everyone at first. We didn't get a clear diagnosis until she was well into elementary school because the school system was so unwilling to help. Mom was finally able to get the school to agree to have her tested outside (which cost her a pretty penny, but it was what she needed to get my sister help), and that was really when we were able to start getting her help. It took 3 doctors diagnosing her with autism before the school was willing to concede that she may need an IEP.

If it is determined that there is a disability, learn what your rights are. Call the state board of education and get anything clarified. At least where my sister is, the school will often try to not do things and my parents will pull the legal code and tell them that they have to. Know your rights and use them. Your daughter is your baby, and no one is going to fight for her and her rights like you will.

Above all, I hope you (and anyone else for that matter) don't have to go through the bitter battle that my parents have to go through. A child that wants to learn is a beautiful thing, and it disgusts me when schools try to not help them along because of the price tag at the end. Best wishes and good luck.