School wants us to sign a crazy medical release form..

[ebtbmom]

There very well may be cases when a child is so medically fragile or complicated that the school personnel and the doctor need to be in contact. I trust schools, parents, and doctors to handle those cases on an individual basis. Just because it may make sense in a very small percentage of cases, doesn't make it remotely reasonable to ask all kids in a school to give up their medical information.

You are absolutely correct! I am a school nurse and I do not need or want access to the entire medical record of every student in my school. The kids that have complicated histories I get the parent to sign a release allowing me to discuss how their condition needs to be handled at school. For kids with potentially life threatening conditions I have their diagnosis, required meds, special instructions if any, and typical presentation. For everything else there's 911!

It's true that sometimes parents don't share serious conditions with the school, but that's their responsibility and perogative. If I don't know about it I can't be responsible for it.

I am allowed to share medical info with "need to know" staff members. This may include teacher, TA, first responders, bus drivers, and cafeteria workers.

The form to me seems completely unnecessary and inappropriate.

 

[luvsJack]

Didn't you once start a thread about the way a teacher discouraged your dd about her chosen career path? What do you suppose a teacher would do with some of that personal information in your examples?

You know what, some kids have crappy parents who don't care about their education, but last I checked doing bad in school wasn't against the law. Its a matter between a parent and their child, and the teacher, only if the parent decides to involve them.

Yes, I did. And my problem with that teacher was not that he told dd the truth about what it takes to be a vet. It was his whole attitude about it; as though it was completely impossible for her to do. He now teaches her bff in high school and he knows his field and is a good teacher. His issue is a personality thing that seems to make him assume girls are not cut out for anything to do with animals. And what exactly does that have to do with this subject? I never said I have never had an issue with a teacher or an administrator--I have.

And what does being against the law have to do with anything?

The teachers and schools are responsible for giving these kids and education. Those tests that we all complain about not only tests our kids but is testing the school and teachers. In order to help a child learn and pass those tests, it is helpful to know what is going on in their lives that may have some impact on their ability to learn, pay attention and complete their assignments. --ETA: I went back and re-read your post and saw your comment on this very thing. And you are right, as long as we continue the ridiculous testing of our students and schools, things like this will continue and may get more "invasive". IMHO, it is making the schools more and more responsible for our kids. They no longer have the choice just to let the kid fail.

As for crappy parents, yep, there have always been those. But, in your opinion, the child should suffer because mom and dad don't feel the need to tell the school that their child is ADHD, or allergic to milk, or has a medical condition that can have an impact on their performance in school?

 

[tvguy]

I would think that if a child had a serious condition they would wear an alert bracelet.

I would hope so too.

 

[tvguy]

Hippa Regulations also do not prevent a child's Doctor from communicating with hospital staff in regards to Emergency Medical care ... and frankly in a Medical Emergency I'd rather Doctor #1 be communicating with Doctor #2 and not relaying medical information via the school nurse.

If a school nurse phoned a Doctor from the ambulance and said "We are transporting student XYZ who is your patient to ZZZ Hospital - the Doctor's office would pull the chart information, alert the Physician (or on call Doctor) and they would then contact the hospital with needed facts.

None of this is any reason for a school Nurse to have access to lab reports, future appointments, or any of the other possible information that was listed.

Like I said, no issue with that. My point from the beginning has been this type of form isn't something new or unique.

 

[luvmy3]

Yes, I did. And my problem with that teacher was not that he told dd the truth about what it takes to be a vet. It was his whole attitude about it; as though it was completely impossible for her to do. He now teaches her bff in high school and he knows his field and is a good teacher. His issue is a personality thing that seems to make him assume girls are not cut out for anything to do with animals. And what exactly does that have to do with this subject? I never said I have never had an issue with a teacher or an administrator--I have.

And what does being against the law have to do with anything?

The teachers and schools are responsible for giving these kids and education. Those tests that we all complain about not only tests our kids but is testing the school and teachers. In order to help a child learn and pass those tests, it is helpful to know what is going on in their lives that may have some impact on their ability to learn, pay attention and complete their assignments. --ETA: I went back and re-read your post and saw your comment on this very thing. And you are right, as long as we continue the ridiculous testing of our students and schools, things like this will continue and may get more "invasive". IMHO, it is making the schools more and more responsible for our kids. They no longer have the choice just to let the kid fail.

As for crappy parents, yep, there have always been those. But, in your opinion, the child should suffer because mom and dad don't feel the need to tell the school that their child is ADHD, or allergic to milk, or has a medical condition that can have an impact on their performance in school?

My point was you as a parent were annoyed with a teacher, or his personality because of his opinion about what your dd can or ca't do. I guess I would assume that a parent who got annoyed at something like that wouldn't want some of those things known to those types of teachers.
As far as the other comment about law, its because there is no reason for a teacher to need access to a students medical records in order to make sure they do well in school, since its not against the law for a student to fail.

I agree that a teacher can only do their best for a student if they know what is going on. However that doesn't mean I support permission for them to have access to that information any time they may feel the need to have it.

And to answer your question, no it is not okay for the child to suffer because of crappy parents, however those situations can be handled on a case by case basis, much like how things like that are handled now. No need to put a blanket policy in place when the majority of parents aren't crappy KWIM.

 

[luvsJack]

My point was you as a parent were annoyed with a teacher, or his personality because of his opinion about what your dd can or ca't do. I guess I would assume that a parent who got annoyed at something like that wouldn't want some of those things known to those types of teachers.
As far as the other comment about law, its because there is no reason for a teacher to need access to a students medical records in order to make sure they do well in school, since its not against the law.

I agree that a teacher can only do their best for a student if they know what is going on. However that doesn't mean I support permission for them to have access to that information any time they may feel the need to have it.

Sorry, I still don't get the connection. He made a decision about dd based on the fact that she was a girl and that she was in show choir; had nothing to do with personal information.

I guess, like a pp said, I, too, am just a trusting person. I have yet to meet a teacher (other than MAYBE the one ag teacher who has a problem with girls in his class but honestly I think he really does think he is doing the best for them) that doesn't have their students best interest at heart. I just don't see any teacher having the time nor want to go digging into information that they do not really need.

I know what you mean about the blanket policy and you may be right. It would probably be better if they could do things on a case by case rather than having permission on every kid.

 

[sam_gordon]

As for crappy parents, yep, there have always been those. But, in your opinion, the child should suffer because mom and dad don't feel the need to tell the school that their child is ADHD, or allergic to milk, or has a medical condition that can have an impact on their performance in school?

Again, in order for school personnel to learn of unreleased problems, someone would have to read entire medical files. Is that what you think would happen?

 

[luvsJack]

Again, in order for school personnel to learn of unreleased problems, someone would have to read entire medical files. Is that what you think would happen?

If it would help the child.

 

[luvmy3]

Sorry, I still don't get the connection. He made a decision about dd based on the fact that she was a girl and that she was in show choir; had nothing to do with personal information.

I guess, like a pp said, I, too, am just a trusting person. I have yet to meet a teacher (other than MAYBE the one ag teacher who has a problem with girls in his class but honestly I think he really does think he is doing the best for them) that doesn't have their students best interest at heart. I just don't see any teacher having the time nor want to go digging into information that they do not really need.

I know what you mean about the blanket policy and you may be right. It would probably be better if they could do things on a case by case rather than having permission on every kid.

Okay I guess I'm not explaining it very well, its been a long day
In that teacher's mind your dd can't do something because she's a girl. How about a teacher who forms an opinion on your child because they were raped, or because they come from an abusive home, etc.
Not that teacher's aren't entitled to have opinions about their students, however if I as the parent am Okay with whatever is going on at school (due to something like one your examples) then I wouldn't want people to know things that I see as deeply personal. As long as parents are allowed to not sign the release its not really that big of an issue. If schools start making that #3 option in the OP mandatory, then it is something I'd fight.

 

[luvsJack]

Okay I guess I'm not explaining it very well, its been a long day
In that teacher's mind your dd can't do something because she's a girl. How about a teacher who forms an opinion on your child because they were raped, or because they come from an abusive home, etc.
Not that teacher's aren't entitled to have opinions about their students, however if I as the parent am Okay with whatever is going on at school (due to something like one your examples) then I wouldn't want people to know things that I see as deeply personal. As long as parents are allowed to not sign the release its not really that big of an issue. If schools start making that #3 option in the OP mandatory, then it is something I'd fight.

OHHHHH! I gotcha!

Ok, well that does raise an interesting point. And I do see your point in that respect. I would not keep most of those kinds of things from dd's teachers, but I would want to know each teacher before telling it. OTOH, I know that not every parent is like me or you and I do think about those kids and how it works for them. If, for kids whose parents do not communicate with the school, some personal information is needed there has to be a way for the school to obtain it. But, for parents like us, it would be best if the parent gave the information.

I guess it's just another example of the squeaky wheel getting the oil.

 

[DopeyDame]

I guess, like a pp said, I, too, am just a trusting person. I have yet to meet a teacher (other than MAYBE the one ag teacher who has a problem with girls in his class but honestly I think he really does think he is doing the best for them) that doesn't have their students best interest at heart. I just don't see any teacher having the time nor want to go digging into information that they do not really need.

.

Even with the absolute best interest of the students at heart, a teacher (or any person not fully involved in a person's medical care) can make inappropriate decisions based on medical information. I have a congenital heart defect. It freaks-the-heck out of people. To the point where my softball coach in middle school didn't want to let me play after I casually mentioned that I was going to miss practice because of a cardiologist appointment. (Clearly, should have just said 'doctors' appointment.) My cardiologist knew I was playing softball (and, in fact, cleared me to play in the NBA if I should make a team ), my parents obviously knew, and at no point was the oh-so-intensive world of middle school softball a danger to my health. But my parents ended up in a long phone conversation with the head of the league because I used the word 'cardiologist'. I loved that coach, and I am 100% confident that she had nothing but my best interests at heart. But really, beyond the sports physical signed by a doctor indicating that I was physically able to play, the rest of my medical history was none of her business.
Was it a big deal in the grand scheme of things? Of course not. Did I continue to play the rest of the season? Yup. But I'm willing to bet that all of us with even slightly off-the-beaten path medical histories have similar stories. Some far more hair-raising than that. Surely you can realize that teachers can act with the best of intentions and still make completely bone-headed decisions if given the wrong kind of information.

 

[sam_gordon]

If it would help the child.

Which child? EVERYONE'S records would need to be read. You can't assume only "Suzy's" parents left something off.

 

[HelenePA]

I also have a child with a complicated medical history (a rare CHD w/3 open heart surgeries and multiple non invasive cardiac procedures to date).....I'm laughing at the thought of a school nurse trying to read through his medical records for "pertinent" information to give to the paramedics. We've had enough trouble dealing with the average physician given the general lack of understanding re: his condition so there's no way I'd want to put his fate into the hands of a school nurse. If something goes wrong my husband and I/his ped/his cardiologist (or someone from the cardiology dept at the Children's Hospital) are the ONLY people who should be contacted. The school knows the name of the diagnosis and the names and numbers of those who should be contacted in an emergency. That's all they need.

I also have to agree with those posters who have expressed concern that too much information in the wrong hands can be counterproductive. It would be very easy for a well meaning yet uninformed staff member to make decisions that would be unnecessary and not in the child's best interest based upon their 'fears' and lack of understanding. I get that most here don't get that. Consider yourselves lucky I guess.

My daughter also has a CHD (Double Outlet Right ventricle, VSD ASD blah blah blah.. She's had one open heart surgery but to date she's had 5 surgeries total) Could you see them reading thru all that? I'm going to guess HLHS for your little one? I hope they are doing well! The school also knows all her major stuff. I've never kept anything from them that they NEED to know.

 

[Pigeon]

How do you propose they do that?

If a child's family is being upturned due to a divorce--guess what? Its going to affect their work in school.

If a child's father is beating his mother (or the other way around)--guess what? Its going to affect their progress in school.

If a child is being picked on in school, it could affect medical issues such as bed-wetting. So there again a medical problem can over-lap a school problem.

If a child has been raped and gone through a birth/adoption/abortion--it can very possibly affect their school progress for several years.

If a child has some long term illness--it can certainly affect their progress.

Everything going on in a child's home/personal life can have impact on their school performance. If a teacher or administrator does not know what is going on, how would they help this child?

Up until fairly recently, schools had no problem doing that at all.

I've got a dh who is a public school teacher, as well as several siblings and sisters in laws who are public school teachers. The idea that the teacher really can do much of anything to address any of these issues is nothing but wishful thinking. I certainly think services should be available for kids in these situations, but the schools shouldn't be the ones providing them.

 

[sookie]

For me personally it has nothing to do with being (over) protective. I wouldn't have an issue with signing #1 or #2, but #3 takes it too far. There is no reason for the school to have access to those things, whether they intend to use them or not. Its the principle of the matter that they seem to think they are entitled to personal medical info. I as a parent will inform the school of anything they need to know regarding my child.

That is because you are a good mom. I'm a Peds NP, and used to be a boarding school nurse. So probably a different situation, because the staff I worked with had to be the "parent". When a kid came to me - a lot of the time it was routine, but at least two or three times a week I had to send kids to the hospital, and several times a year I had to make decisions that at times were life and death. I had kids literally crash on me. I ran a service full clinic at the school I worked with. It was stressful.

Several times, I had children who had major medical problems show up to the school without medicines. The parents did not tell the school in advance that the the children had chronic health issues - like diabetes. Further, several times, I had children show up where their parents had failed to disclose their condition because they were afraid we would reject the child's application to our school. We took medically complex children. But they would just sent them on a hope and a prayer - and the kid would literally crash after they had been there a week or so. This did not just happen to one kid, but several.

And it would be my job to dig through their paperwork and see that mom or dad didn't disclose. This would happen as I was trying to get records for a kid that was sick, getting sicker, or for a kid who was at an ER or who was admitted to a hospital.

And then it would be my job to get their records from where they used to live. I used a form that gave me permission to get whatever records I needed - educational, healthcare - anything. Because these were teenagers, they were usually able to tell me what clinics they had gone to recently. I started there. If the kid didn't know, I would call the parents / family and I would usually get that information - if they weren't forthcoming, the staff would usually talk to them and discuss sending that kid back home when they were stable. Usually they were concerned and they would start to tell me the information, though.

Then I would get everything faxed to me, and then I would somehow piece together a recent medical record. Then, I could paw through that and figure out what in the world I could do with this kid; what their previous routine meds were supposed to be, and what I needed to do. I found all kinds of things that as a boarding school nurse, that I HAD to know. And the dorm staff who took care of the kids and gave them their medicines? They needed to know too.

The population I work with is disadvantaged and tends to get disjointed care in the first place, so getting a good history is very hard.

I think that the people in this thread are being very hard on school nurses in general. I have been there and if you are a real school nurse (and I'm not talking the secretary who has been trained to put a band-aid on someone) and if you are really having to treat a kid - you need real information sometimes. And it stinks not to have it - especially if parents are not forthcoming. The people on the dis are generally middle class, involved parents. Not every parent is forthcoming about their child's medical history... and sometimes in healthcare, nurses have to track down records and try to treat a kid without hurting them. Who knows what sort of school nursing is going on in the OP's school - but if it was a full service clinic like the type of clinic I ran, previous records are VERY, very important.

OK, off my soap box!!

 

[sookie]

Which child? EVERYONE'S records would need to be read. You can't assume only "Suzy's" parents left something off.

I can promise you - as someone who has had unlimited access to thousands of records over the years - no one cares enough to track down records unless there is a true need. Unless your kid is very ill and they can't get a hold of you - they are not going to use your permission slip to go around and start tracking down records.

There has to be a permissible reason / purpose to access those records in the first place. Otherwise, people can get in trouble. You have to justify every reason you access / request a medical record. You can't just say "I want to" or "The school says I need to". You would have to justify it further to meet HIPPA requirements - even as a healthcare provider, I cannot go into an area of a chart unless I have a permissible purpose just because I have access - I have to have a need to know basis to do my job. Does that make sense?

 

[Robbi]

OP, my answers would be:
#1. No- I would offer to give them extra contact names and numbers.
#2. No- My business who I want to know about any problems my child might have.
#3. No- Just plain crazy

 

[Betsy82]

I've read through the whole thread and am still trying to figure out why giving them our insurance information is a bad idea?
We have a subscriber number, and that is it. The company uses that number for everything. No policy number, nothing else. Just that subscriber number. I don't see the harm in the school having that.


... I also wouldn't sign. But I have a son with a thick medical file and a few conditions. One of which involved an impossible decision for me that very likely could have been the wrong one. I don't need to worry that I'm being judged for choosing what I thought was best for my child. My other child is perfectly healthy and I wouldn't sign for him either, but mostly because I think it would look strange to sign for one child and not another.

 

[Robbi]

I've read through the whole thread and am still trying to figure out why giving them our insurance information is a bad idea?
We have a subscriber number, and that is it. The company uses that number for everything. No policy number, nothing else. Just that subscriber number. I don't see the harm in the school having that.


... I also wouldn't sign. But I have a son with a thick medical file and a few conditions. One of which involved an impossible decision for me that very likely could have been the wrong one. I don't need to worry that I'm being judged for choosing what I thought was best for my child. My other child is perfectly healthy and I wouldn't sign for him either, but mostly because I think it would look strange to sign for one child and not another.

It's a privacy issue to me. You or the doctor your child would see, or if heaven forbid, the hospital would file insurance.
Besides, if an accident happened at school and there were legal problems, it would be your insurance vs the school's insurance. Their lawyers don't need anymore information than your lawyer would be willing to share with them or that the courts would decide they need.

 

[HelenePA]

Do any of your schools ask for your childrens SS# and do you give it to them? I dont, I write will give if/when needed. We may have given it to them when we registered them for school so they might already have it but with out fail every year I get sent home the same forms for all 3 kids (#4 will go next year ) and every year the school manages to lose at least one of my kids forms.. who knows who has it or where they end up...