School wants us to sign a crazy medical release form..

[sam_gordon]

A I said i am not a huge privacy advocate. It is my humble opinion that if society (in general) wants to find out something about me, there are ways to do it that are WAY beyond my stopping it. So I refuse to let it get my knickers in a knot. The Census didn't bother me, Facebook privacy scares don't bother me, and being able to find my house on Google maps doesn't stress me at all. People in general have my trust to begin with unless they do something to make me not trust them. I have never owned a tin-foil hat in my life.

I also believe that, in my small town environment and quite stellar schools (and they really are, I am not being snarky), people are basically good, and the schools have my childrens' best interests at heart, so if they want me to something to make their jobs easier, I am not going to worry about it.

Yeah, I have a pretty Pollyanna attitude, and my glass is almost always more than half-full. And I like it that way.

ETA: Dangit, I just reached for my coffee cup and it is now LESS than half-full. I hate it when that happens...

I will agree with everything you say. But there are lines to be drawn. Would you post your bank account numbers online? Just because the lines are different for others doesn't mean they're paranoid.

I would have asked the school for a reason the medical record access would be necessary. If they can convince me, ok, I'd sign. However, I'm not convinced based on what's been posted.

 

[ZachnElli]

I wouldn't sign it, I would never give them full access to my children's medical records. There are still many illnesses that have stigmas attached to them, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, be grateful. My son is adopted, giving them access would give them access to the fact that he was born to a drug addict, why do they need to know what and how much narcotics were in him at birth? It only takes one person to look at it and not notice that it is NOT me listed as his mom and start a rumor. Yeah I can say this to a board full of strangers, but you wouldn't know him if you saw him. I don't want him treated differently and I need to be the one to explain it to him when he is old enough. I want him to reach his full potential and not be told he can't do something because he was born that way. I know lots of teachers would never think that way, but it only takes one with that attitude and you can't tell which is which. If all I had to worry about was an allergy or appendicitis, I could see why it wouldn't seem like a big deal.

 

[Bob NC]

Would you post your bank account numbers online?

Are you serious?

 

[sam_gordon]

Are you serious?

If you think I am, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

I'm sorry you don't understand my writing style, maybe I'm not expressing myself well. The point is EVERYONE is concerned about privacy. The only difference is where the line is between "this is private" and "others can know this". Just because someone wants to keep certain things (like medical records) private doesn't mean they don't trust anyone or they "wear" tin foil hats. But I guess it's ok for someone to go to that extreme because you agree with them?

 

[Bob NC]

If you think I am, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

I'm sorry you don't understand my writing style, maybe I'm not expressing myself well. The point is EVERYONE is concerned about privacy. The only difference is where the line is between "this is private" and "others can know this". Just because someone wants to keep certain things (like medical records) private doesn't mean they don't trust anyone or they "wear" tin foil hats. But I guess it's ok for someone to go to that extreme because you agree with them?

LOL, I've been around here enough to know about your "writing style", if that's what you want to call it.

I know we all want to make our views known, and want to get our points across.

But, comparing the amount of information you feel secure in giving to a school nurse with putting your bank account numbers online?

Really?

 

[Ceila]

To those who say that school nurses (or other school personnel) don't have the time or interest to look up every child's medical history, well, you're mostly correct. But the OP herself gave an example of a nurse who is questioning the opinion of a medical doctor and, I think, WOULD be the type to try to obtain a student's medical records. Would she get them? Probably not, but why take the chance?

Pea-n-me, I really don't think anyone here is disparaging all school nurses. The OP's school nurse, IMO, crossed the line when she insisted on ignoring information from a medical doctor. Most school nurses are wonderful, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some who act unprofessionally. As a teacher myself, the same is true for my profession. I certainly wouldn't take offense to a poster who was unhappy with their child's teacher just because I am one as well.

To those who say "I have nothing to hide," well, that's great for you. But you do understand, don't you, that a child could have a medical issue that they and their parents prefer to remain private?

 

[chicagoshannon]

I wouldn't sign any of it. There is no reason why the school would need to call my child's doctor. If there is an emergency they better call 911.

I wouldn't even give insurance info. It isn't necessary as the emergency room has to treat anyone being brought in.

 

[Social Worker Sue]

To those who say that school nurses (or other school personnel) don't have the time or interest to look up every child's medical history, well, you're mostly correct. But the OP herself gave an example of a nurse who is questioning the opinion of a medical doctor and, I think, WOULD be the type to try to obtain a student's medical records. Would she get them? Probably not, but why take the chance?

I agree. The school nurse was second guessing the doctor? What a busy-body! She wasn't even there. But she knew more than the doctor? Um. Ok.

I could see a nurse that was "on scene" and privately discussed the matter with the doctor. But to doubt what happened without even being there seems just weird. And certainly unprofessional.

I am not a fan of nurses that Play Doctor.

 

[monsterkitty]

I'm a teacher and an EMT. If there is a true medical emergency we're not going to call the parent first, we're calling 911. I am not going to waste time and call a parent and say, "Hey your child is having an allergic reaction to something and having difficulty breathing. What do you want us to do?" Instead the secretary is calling after we call 911 and saying, "Your child is having difficulty breathing due to a possible allergic reaction. We have called 911. Do you want to meet the paramedics here at school or the hospital?"

While I do think the form crosses the line, I can see some of the reason behind it. We have had students with severe medical needs that have not been shared with us by the parent. We have had kids who have diabetes, asthma, heart conditions, etc and the parents have not told us about these. One of my students was staggering around in class one day because she has diabetes and she was hypoglycemic. We had no idea she had diabetes because her parents didn't think we needed that info. I now have a student who has a form of Muscular Dystrophy. She drops things, falls, and stumbles daily. However, nowhere in her record is this noted. Her sister has the same disease. The only reason I know about her MD is that her mother passed away two years ago from this form of MD and my student shared the information with me. Dad and step mom don't think we need this information so they didn't give it to us. When they found out their dd shared the info with me she was grounded. Parents don't always want to share information that can teachers do need to know so I wonder if something like this happened at the OP's school and this is their way of trying to prevent it from happening again.

 

[tvguy]

OK, lets say a child gets stung by a bee at recess. How does the nurse having access to medical RECORDS helpful? If the child is allergic to bees, that should already be disclosed. If the child is allergic but the doctor doesn't know, that doesn't help. Do you want the nurse to wait to administer first aid until SHE gets the records? Shouldn't she just call the pediatrician, explain she's the school nurse, "Suzy" got stung by a bee and what should she do?

Okay, I'm confused, the first part of your post argues why the nurse should not have access to the medical records, the last sentence is a great example of why the nurse should have access to the records.

Under HIPPA, the only way the doctor could even confirm the child was his patient was if the school nurse had the signed form from the parent allowing him to disclose medical record information, let alone discuss any specific health issues that may or may not have been otherwise disclosed to the school. And no, treatment should not be delayed for that, but what treatment beyond immediate first aid may be dependent on the information in the medical records.

 

[sam_gordon]

Okay, I'm confused, the first part of your post argues why the nurse should not have access to the medical records, the last sentence is a great example of why the nurse should have access to the records.

Under HIPPA, the only way the doctor could even confirm the child was his patient was if the school nurse had the signed form from the parent allowing him to disclose medical record information, let alone discuss any specific health issues that may or may not have been otherwise disclosed to the school. And no, treatment should not be delayed for that, but what treatment beyond immediate first aid may be dependent on the information in the medical records.

I don't see an issue with the school knowing what doctor a child goes to. Unless the nurse has copies on hand on EVERY student that they can look at in a moments notice, they're no good in an emergency. And if it's that much of an emergency that the nurse needs medical records, they better be getting the kid to the doctor or ER, NOT looking up records.

 

[tvguy]

In none of those situations would a medical professional be taking the time to go thru the past office records. In a true medical emergency, the child would be being treated & stabilized by PARAMEDICS! Who would not have access to the complete past medical record!! After the child is stabilized & transported to a hospital if necessary, past medical records would be accessed if needed. The school nurse does not need access to complete medical record for an emergency. Especially one who has already proven to be trying to second guess a child's medical care.

Allergies to drugs, food or bee stings are different & already known by the school. Nobody is saying the school shouldn't be told about those. The objection is to the nurse having complete access to every past test, office visit or diagnosis the child has had. Noone except the patient & doctor truely need that. Heck, once the kid turns 18, even the parent doesn't get that access.

Maybe a regional difference, but just got off the phone with the media contract for our fire department. She says here, a child taken to the hospital by paramedics from a school will always be accompanied by a school nurse or other school official. They will act as guardian until contact can be made with parents. He said it is not unheard of for the paramedic to be in contact with the ER Hospitalist enroute, and for the school official at the same time to be in contact with the child's Doctor so that a medical history is complete, or as complete as possible when they arriver at the E.R. She said "parents need to decide what is more important, privacy, or allowing access to critical information that can help the ER Hospitalist and Parademic make an informed decision in what could be a life and death situation."

 

[tvguy]

I don't see an issue with the school knowing what doctor a child goes to. Unless the nurse has copies on hand on EVERY student that they can look at in a moments notice, they're no good in an emergency. And if it's that much of an emergency that the nurse needs medical records, they better be getting the kid to the doctor or ER, NOT looking up records.

That is exactly what these emergency cards are that the OP was concerned about. They are what school officials grab and take with them when a student has an emergency and has to be transported, and it is what the paramedics ask for when they arrive at a school. Yes, there is one for every student.
OP was concerned that the card they were being asked to sign allowed access to medical records. But the basic card is required, there is no option there.

Same set up as daycares, and nursing homes, and board and care homes, and I know when my mom had to be transported by ambulance from a Rehab center to the ER. before the paramedics left, they asked for that card.

 

[BelleMarie]

Maybe a regional difference, but just got off the phone with the media contract for our fire department. She says here, a child taken to the hospital by paramedics from a school will always be accompanied by a school nurse or other school official. They will act as guardian until contact can be made with parents. He said it is not unheard of for the paramedic to be in contact with the ER Hospitalist enroute, and for the school official at the same time to be in contact with the child's Doctor so that a medical history is complete, or as complete as possible when they arriver at the E.R. She said "parents need to decide what is more important, privacy, or allowing access to critical information that can help the ER Hospitalist and Parademic make an informed decision in what could be a life and death situation."

Much like what my school district told me about the generalized release form, I think the person you were speaking with was giving you a line. Not every physician has digital records for their patients, which can make it difficult to locate information quickly. In the cases I have seen involving transport from a school, the nurse grabs the student's emergency info card, which details medication allergies, chronic medical conditions and anything else that the parents have chosen to be shared with the nurse and emergency medical personnel. That card is handed over to the paramedics who treat the student appropriately. I've never heard of a school nurse getting a history on a student being transported. It's not necessary to have a complete history to treat an emergent condition.

 

[tvguy]

In none of those situations would a medical professional be taking the time to go thru the past office records. In a true medical emergency, the child would be being treated & stabilized by PARAMEDICS! Who would not have access to the complete past medical record!! After the child is stabilized & transported to a hospital if necessary, past medical records would be accessed if needed. The school nurse does not need access to complete medical record for an emergency. Especially one who has already proven to be trying to second guess a child's medical care.

Allergies to drugs, food or bee stings are different & already known by the school. Nobody is saying the school shouldn't be told about those. The objection is to the nurse having complete access to every past test, office visit or diagnosis the child has had. Noone except the patient & doctor truely need that. Heck, once the kid turns 18, even the parent doesn't get that access.

Yes, paramedics would treat, but as I have posted, a school official is required to go along until the child can physically be turned over to a parent or guardian. Of course a school official is not going to ask that an entire medical record be read to them, but if the need comes up before the parent/guardian takes over, without access to the records, they could not even get an answer to a specific question......good lord, think up any of a million situations where the paramedic has a question enroute that might impact what treatment the child needs.......that the parent may not have included on the basic and required emergency card......maybe the child has a stent or other medical device that maybe precludes the use of, or where an IV is inserted....or means that CPR not electro shock is the only way to resusitate them.

 

[tvguy]

Much like what my school district told me about the generalized release form, I think the person you were speaking with was giving you a line. Not every physician has digital records for their patients, which can make it difficult to locate information quickly. In the cases I have seen involving transport from a school, the nurse grabs the student's emergency info card, which details medication allergies, chronic medical conditions and anything else that the parents have chosen to be shared with the nurse and emergency medical personnel. That card is handed over to the paramedics who treat the student appropriately. I've never heard of a school nurse getting a history on a student being transported. It's not necessary to have a complete history to treat an emergent condition.

Like the Paramedic told me, it boils down to what is more important, privacy, or potentially saving your child's life, no matter how slim the odds are of it ever being needed.

 

[Planogirl]

I would have no problem with #1. The other forms are odd.

I see the schools as continually getting more into the child's private business and going to places that they don't belong. I always support the schools wholeheartedly but they are getting way too nosy and nanny-ish (is that a word?).

 

[tzolkin]

To those who say "I have nothing to hide," well, that's great for you. But you do understand, don't you, that a child could have a medical issue that they and their parents prefer to remain private?

I wouldn't sign it, I would never give them full access to my children's medical records. There are still many illnesses that have stigmas attached to them, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, be grateful. My son is adopted, giving them access would give them access to the fact that he was born to a drug addict, why do they need to know what and how much narcotics were in him at birth? It only takes one person to look at it and not notice that it is NOT me listed as his mom and start a rumor. Yeah I can say this to a board full of strangers, but you wouldn't know him if you saw him. I don't want him treated differently and I need to be the one to explain it to him when he is old enough. I want him to reach his full potential and not be told he can't do something because he was born that way. I know lots of teachers would never think that way, but it only takes one with that attitude and you can't tell which is which. If all I had to worry about was an allergy or appendicitis, I could see why it wouldn't seem like a big deal.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make with the examples in my earlier post.


It seems that most of the discussion has gone off on the importance of a school nurse having medical information in case of an emergency. Emergency was never mentioned as a reason that the school wanted access to the records. (Also obviously if there was an actual emergency there would be no time for the nurse to contact the doctor's office, receive all the records, and go through everything looking for pertinent information.)

The OP said:
#3 I give the school nurse permission to have unlimited access any of my childrens medical records (not limited to, information about appointments, referrals, physicals, lab results, immunization records, phone calls)

I just can't possibly see why the school would need all of these details and what use they would have. Unless they gave me a reasonable, logical reason why would I sign something granting them access to years worth of personal information?

 

[tvguy]

If OP doesn't want to sign it, I have no issue. My only point is, this type of form is not unusual in schools, and youth sports. I know when I coached little league, we had a copy of the medical form on site, and we were required to carry a copy with us when we played away from our home fields.

 

[tvguy]

I agree. The school nurse was second guessing the doctor? What a busy-body! She wasn't even there. But she knew more than the doctor? Um. Ok.

I could see a nurse that was "on scene" and privately discussed the matter with the doctor. But to doubt what happened without even being there seems just weird. And certainly unprofessional.

I am not a fan of nurses that Play Doctor.

And here they elimiated school nurses a long time ago so they aren't even a factor . 9-1-1 would be called and the emergency card would be given to paramedics or whoever the first responders are in your area.