School wants us to sign a crazy medical release form..

[Pea-n-Me]

My problem is with any nurse who seeks to overstep her license. Trying to diagnosis & second guess the successful treatment by a licensed physician is way over the line. Trying to intimidate a parent & force her idea of treatment is also over the line. I would not let that type of nurse have access to any medical information she doeasn't absolutely need. None of her busness what's in my child's full medical record.

I am an RN with decades of experience, too, and we'll have to disagree on this one. What you see as overstepping bounds and second guessing, I see as professional assessment within the scope of practice. (And again, not agreeing with full access to medical records, necessarily. Just commenting on some of the examples cited here. Obviously there is a large degree of misunderstanding and miscommunication within systems and roles, not surprisingly.)

 

[Sorsha]

I'm wondering if all those who would grant this unlimited access to the child's medical record would sign the same kind of release for their employer? After all, might you not get sick or have an emergency at work? Wouldn't you want someone to have access to your full medical record in case your next of kin isn't reached immediately?? Same thing, in my book.

Ummm yes, I would.

I have several medical conditions, including a mild seizure disorder, that I DO want people to be able to understand and handle in case something happens when I am around them. I fact, I have taken almost everyone I work with aside and explained my condition to them and they know how to get ahold of my Neuro (yes, I know that he still wouldn't release anything to them without signed forms, etc, but he could probably tell them how to handle a crises) if they need to. Better for them to be able to deal with anything that might arise than for me to believe that I need some shroud of privacy.

My children have no such conditions, but if they did, I would still feel the same way.

 

[focusondisney]

I am an RN with decades of experience, too, and we'll have to disagree on this one. What you see as overstepping bounds and second guessing, I see as professional assessment within the scope of practice. (And again, not agreeing with full access to medical records, necessarily. Just commenting on some of the examples cited here. Obviously there is a large degree of misunderstanding and miscommunication within systems and roles, not surprisingly.)

True, much is context of what & how the nurse is asking. We are reading it differently. Thanks for disagreeing so nicely!

 

[focusondisney]

Ummm yes, I would.

I have several medical conditions, including a mild seizure disorder, that I DO want people to be able to understand and handle in case something happens when I am around them. I fact, I have taken almost everyone I work with aside and explained my condition to them and they know how to get ahold of my Neuro (yes, I know that he still wouldn't release anything to them without signed forms, etc, but he could probably tell them how to handle a crises) if they need to. Better for them to be able to deal with anything that might arise than for me to believe that I need some shroud of privacy.

My children have no such conditions, but if they did, I would still feel the same way.

Thanks for answering! I was just wondering if people are as comfortable with giving out their own info as they are with giving their child's. And I would probably do the same thing if I was in your situation.

 

[mickeyboat]

Ummm yes, I would.

I have several medical conditions, including a mild seizure disorder, that I DO want people to be able to understand and handle in case something happens when I am around them. I fact, I have taken almost everyone I work with aside and explained my condition to them and they know how to get ahold of my Neuro (yes, I know that he still wouldn't release anything to them without signed forms, etc, but he could probably tell them how to handle a crises) if they need to. Better for them to be able to deal with anything that might arise than for me to believe that I need some shroud of privacy.

My children have no such conditions, but if they did, I would still feel the same way.

If my children were to develop a condition where I would feel it necessary to divulge their medical history to the school (or to their Girl Scout leader, or to their hockey coach, etc), of course I will provide that information. They ask for it every year on the health forms I fill out. But I will not provide unfettered access to my daughters' medical records to someone who really has no need to know every detail of their very uneventful medical histories, and who has the authority to divulge that information to anyone she thinks might need to know.

 

[sam_gordon]

I haven't had much dealings with paramedics, so I don't know that.

You do realize that not every child has a primary doctor?

If the child doesn't see a regular doctor, what medical records are they going to have?

No not at all. This would have been on the emergency contact card and could have been left in the sub notes by the teacher or school nurse. In another instance I had a diabetic kindergarten student with diabetes and the teacher did inform me so I knew to give her a snack at a certain time and send her to the nurse to have her sugar tested. That day a parent wanted to bring cupcakes for her child's birthday. I was able to contact her parent and discuss how the diabetic child could be included in the celebration. Had I not had to information it could have been a disaster. This was before HIPPA. Subs really do need to have basic info on a child with a condition that might need intervention during class time. All that is needed is a list from the teacher of the information in the sub folder or if they go for meds or testing a prefilled out pass to hand to the student.

I'm sorry, I didn't state my thought clearly. What I was trying to say was if a nurse had access to medical records, the only way your situation would have been avoided is if she read it all. Any allergies should already be included on emergency cards. That doesn't justify everything else that is in a medical record.

 

[BelleMarie]

My kids' school uses a similar form, which I did not sign. I did contact the district office, however, to ask them why the information was being requested. They explained that it is only used for situations where the school, in conjunction with state agencies, would need to remove a child from their home and would need to access medical records for that process.

 

[sam_gordon]

My kids' school uses a similar form, which I did not sign. I did contact the district office, however, to ask them why the information was being requested. They explained that it is only used for situations where the school, in conjunction with state agencies, would need to remove a child from their home and would need to access medical records for that process.

THAT makes me want to give them the information.

 

[Sorsha]

If my children were to develop a condition where I would feel it necessary to divulge their medical history to the school (or to their Girl Scout leader, or to their hockey coach, etc), of course I will provide that information. They ask for it every year on the health forms I fill out. But I will not provide unfettered access to my daughters' medical records to someone who really has no need to know every detail of their very uneventful medical histories, and who has the authority to divulge that information to anyone she thinks might need to know.

The problem here is that most of the replies (not yours necessarily, you were just the closest one to "quote") assume that school personnel have nothing better to do with their time then go around calling doctors (who may or may not divulge information anyway) being nosy trying to find out when the last time was your child had a sore throat. (And again, who cares???)

99% of school personnel a. don't care unless an emergency arises, b. respect your privacy enough to not go nosing about, and c. have enough crap to deal with on a daily basis that your quite-healthy child's health records are WAY low down on their priority list.

I think we can all agree that our nation faces an epidemic of un-involved parents (obviously not on the Dis, we are all perfect, with perfect children, remember) and I think that we can also all understand that school may not be getting the information needed to care for students in an emergency. And yes, in a legal situation, schools DO have to cover their butts.

Sorry, but if little Johnny goes into shock over a food allergy that was not reported to the lunch ladies because his teacher didn't have that information, and it could have been prevented by a quick call to the pediatrician the first time someone noticed something amiss, then to me that makes it worthwhile. After all, if the nurse calls little Johnny's doctor and asks 'I noticed that when Johnny drank milk yesterday, he had trouble breathing in P.E afterwards. Can you tell me if there is a dairy allergy I should be watching out for?" I find it fairly unlikely that the doctor will launch into a full-blown conversation with her about little Johnny's genitalia. Let's give our medical professionals a little respect...

 

[focusondisney]

My kids' school uses a similar form, which I did not sign. I did contact the district office, however, to ask them why the information was being requested. They explained that it is only used for situations where the school, in conjunction with state agencies, would need to remove a child from their home and would need to access medical records for that process.

The school could never remove a child from it's home. That's the court/ chld protection/ law enforcement's job. And the court can get access to the child's medical records in that instance.

 

[sam_gordon]

The problem here is that most of the replies (not yours necessarily, you were just the closest one to "quote") assume that school personnel have nothing better to do with their time then go around calling doctors (who may or may not divulge information anyway) being nosy trying to find out when the last time was your child had a sore throat. (And again, who cares???)

99% of school personnel a. don't care unless an emergency arises, b. respect your privacy enough to not go nosing about, and c. have enough crap to deal with on a daily basis that your quite-healthy child's health records are WAY low down on their priority list.

I think we can all agree that our nation faces an epidemic of un-involved parents (obviously not on the Dis, we are all perfect, with perfect children, remember) and I think that we can also all understand that school may not be getting the information needed to care for students in an emergency. And yes, in a legal situation, schools DO have to cover their butts.

Sorry, but if little Johnny goes into shock over a food allergy that was not reported to the lunch ladies because his teacher didn't have that information, and it could have been prevented by a quick call to the pediatrician the first time someone noticed something amiss, then to me that makes it worthwhile. After all, if the nurse calls little Johnny's doctor and asks 'I noticed that when Johnny drank milk yesterday, he had trouble breathing in P.E afterwards. Can you tell me if there is a dairy allergy I should be watching out for?" I find it fairly unlikely that the doctor will launch into a full-blown conversation with her about little Johnny's genitalia. Let's give our medical professionals a little respect...

My problem is by the time an "emergency" happens, it's too late to ask for medical records. In your example, the nurse should be calling the parents first, regardless of their involvement. Why would the nurse focus on the milk he drank? Isn't it possible he's allergic to something else in the lunch? Or something someone brought at the same table?

 

[focusondisney]

Sorry, but if little Johnny goes into shock over a food allergy that was not reported to the lunch ladies because his teacher didn't have that information, and it could have been prevented by a quick call to the pediatrician the first time someone noticed something amiss, then to me that makes it worthwhile. After all, if the nurse calls little Johnny's doctor and asks 'I noticed that when Johnny drank milk yesterday, he had trouble breathing in P.E afterwards. Can you tell me if there is a dairy allergy I should be watching out for?" I find it fairly unlikely that the doctor will launch into a full-blown conversation with her about little Johnny's genitalia. Let's give our medical professionals a little respect...

And you don't think the first call should be to the parent & ask them about a dairy allergy? If the pediatrician knows there's a dairy allergy, so does the parent.

 

[BelleMarie]

The school could never remove a child from it's home. That's the court/ chld protection/ law enforcement's job. And the court can get access to the child's medical records in that instance.

Right, but the school can work in conjunction with agencies/make the reports that result in the child being removed from the home. And yes, it would still take a court order to get full access to everything. I'm just passing on information that my school district gave me

I'm a little (ok, a lot) protective of my family's medical privacy, though. Too much information is passed around at will, which leads to too much discrimination. I had a medically complicated high school 'career', and most of it was pretty well known (hard to miss the girl in the wheel chair 4 months out of the school year for 3 years in a row). The 'silent' issues were only supposed to be known by the school nurse, though, and somehow several of my teachers found out and started treating me differently because of them.

 

[Sorsha]

My problem is by the time an "emergency" happens, it's too late to ask for medical records. In your example, the nurse should be calling the parents first, regardless of their involvement. Why would the nurse focus on the milk he drank? Isn't it possible he's allergic to something else in the lunch? Or something someone brought at the same table?

And you don't think the first call should be to the parent & ask them about a dairy allergy? If the pediatrician knows there's a dairy allergy, so does the parent.

OK, as to whether or not it could be an allergy other than dairy, of course it could - let's not be silly for the sake of being argumentative. I am NOT a medical professional, I am quite sure a nurse would phrase it differently than I did.

And yes, the first call should always be to a parent, but do you not realize that it is sometimes impossible to reach a parent??!? Good grief, my friends are all responsible parents and I know that for many of them, they wouldn't get a message till it was far too late - their jobs just don't allow for constant phone contact. Who doesn't miss a call now and then?? Schools need to have other options after they have tried calling a parent.

 

[focusondisney]

Right, but the school can work in conjunction with agencies/make the reports that result in the child being removed from the home. And yes, it would still take a court order to get full access to everything. I'm just passing on information that my school district gave me

I'm a little (ok, a lot) protective of my family's medical privacy, though. Too much information is passed around at will, which leads to too much discrimination. I had a medically complicated high school 'career', and most of it was pretty well known (hard to miss the girl in the wheel chair 4 months out of the school year for 3 years in a row). The 'silent' issues were only supposed to be known by the school nurse, though, and somehow several of my teachers found out and started treating me differently because of them.

Yes, absolutely the school should work with the state agencies as needed. They are legally required to do so. I just mean in that instance it wiouldn't fall to the school to get full access to the medical records. I just think your school "gave you a line".

Sorry you had such a rough time in high school. Hope things are better now.

 

[focusondisney]

And yes, the first call should always be to a parent, but do you not realize that it is sometimes impossible to reach a parent??!? Good grief, my friends are all responsible parents and I know that for many of them, they wouldn't get a message till it was far too late - their jobs just don't allow for constant phone contact. Who doesn't miss a call now and then?? Schools need to have other options after they have tried calling a parent.

Sorry, I disagree. The school has options for getting in touch with a parent. Good old fashioned note sent home with the child, call again, leave a voice mail & our distrct even takes email addresses to contact parents. Again, not talking emergency here. The example you gave is for medical information the nurse is trying to obtain for future use. She should contact the parent.

 

[mickeyboat]

OK, as to whether or not it could be an allergy other than dairy, of course it could - let's not be silly for the sake of being argumentative. I am NOT a medical professional, I am quite sure a nurse would phrase it differently than I did.

And yes, the first call should always be to a parent, but do you not realize that it is sometimes impossible to reach a parent??!? Good grief, my friends are all responsible parents and I know that for many of them, they wouldn't get a message till it was far too late - their jobs just don't allow for constant phone contact. Who doesn't miss a call now and then?? Schools need to have other options after they have tried calling a parent.

If there is an emergency, the child will be treated whether or not a parent has been contacted.

If it is not an emergency, it can wait until the nurse talks to the parent.

The release is unnecessarily broad.

 

[Sorsha]

Ok, I am out. I will respectfully agree to disagree.

A I said i am not a huge privacy advocate. It is my humble opinion that if society (in general) wants to find out something about me, there are ways to do it that are WAY beyond my stopping it. So I refuse to let it get my knickers in a knot. The Census didn't bother me, Facebook privacy scares don't bother me, and being able to find my house on Google maps doesn't stress me at all. People in general have my trust to begin with unless they do something to make me not trust them. I have never owned a tin-foil hat in my life.

I also believe that, in my small town environment and quite stellar schools (and they really are, I am not being snarky), people are basically good, and the schools have my childrens' best interests at heart, so if they want me to something to make their jobs easier, I am not going to worry about it.

Yeah, I have a pretty Pollyanna attitude, and my glass is almost always more than half-full. And I like it that way.

ETA: Dangit, I just reached for my coffee cup and it is now LESS than half-full. I hate it when that happens...

 

[RitaE]

If there is an emergency, the child will be treated whether or not a parent has been contacted.

If it is not an emergency, it can wait until the nurse talks to the parent.

The release is unnecessarily broad.

Exactly. And that is what the Emergency Treatment form is meant to cover. Permission to transport the child to an emergency facility and contact the Physician on record.

I can tell you that I have escorted a young baseball player with a broken arm into an ER and the parental authorization to consent to medical care form was largely ignored. They wanted Mom on the phone giving permission before they would do hardly anything beyond an ice pack. I'm sure that if he needed to be rushed into surgery and my signature was the only option they would have given it larger consideration but otherwise ... I was just the lady keeping him company.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I have never worked in a school but since someone above mentioned a camp... yeah I knew way more medical information then I should have about the kids at camp because I was friends with the director and the "nurse" (really someone with first aid training and a few other things not an actual nurse) had a bit of a big mouth. This includes the child that got her period for the first time at camp, the one who had an infected bug bite the diagnoises of the child that had to go to the hospital after hitting her arm when she fell out of a kayak etc... since none of these children were even in my group that time I really didn't need to know about any of them. So why would I think a school would be that different?

A school nurse is a nurse. Your friend at camp was not. It's faulty reasoning to reflect the non-nurse's behavior on a(ny) school nurse.

Not even comparable.