School situation - declining Basic Skills program

[Disney Ella]

I know you are sick of hearing about school situations so I will try to make this short. I have twin nine-year-old (4th grade) daughters. My second daughter has a little bit of trouble on and off with math. Last year when she started having trouble, I bought a copy of her math book and started working with her. She improved and finished the school year with a B in math.

Yesterday, this DD brought home a paper saying she was selected to participate in the basic skills pull out group due to a low ASK3 test score in math. All that was given was a number with no explanation as to where she fell in the testing. I found the scoring manual on the Internet and discovered that her score was within the proficient range. DD was so upset about the possibility of being in this group and she is afraid of the woman who teaches it. As she had a B in math previously and was at least proficient on the standardized testing, I saw no reason for her to be in this group and explained my reasoning in a letter.

The woman who teaches this group called me today and was, in my opinion, antagonistic and abrasive. She said the reason DD was selected to be in this group was because the classroom teacher said that DD failed the first chapter test. This teacher said that the principal said that DD is going to be in the group and that is that! DD did fail the chapter test because she only had 15 minutes to complete it due to her inschool flute lesson and hurried through the test so she wouldn't have to stay after school.

DD's teacher has never mentioned anything to me about problems or I would have already begun to work with DD again. I know that if I start working with DD again, she can bring her grade up. Both DH and I managed to get through college and while I don't remember calculus, I think I can still handle fourth grade math.

The main reason that I don't want to force DD to do this is that I don't want people to refer to the twins as "the smart one and the other one." These labels tend to become self-fulfilling prophecies. If I can't get DD up to speed, then of course I would hire a tutor for her, but I don't see how the school can force me to put her in this group. She is already a nervous child and I don't want to make things any worse for her.

Can the school force me to do this?

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

I would take the extra help the school is offering your daughter. JMO.

 

[ElizaB39]

They cannot make you do anything. You pay taxes, they work for you, you are her mother, you outrank them.

They are probably worried about covering their butts due to the No Child Left Behind legislation.

 

[gina2000]

No, you can decline basic skills.

I can see your point about making comparisons between your two daughters. I don't know if I'd decline the help based on that. Couple with the abrasive attitude, possibly. You might want to go into the school and discuss your concerns as well as other options...private tutoring (you or another qualified teacher). They are probably concerned about the 4th grade testing and how it will affect their ranking in the state.

 

[4greatboys]

It doesnt seem right they would stick in that group based on 1 test. I would set a meeting with the teacher and the principal and ask to see all her grade to see if is she doing badly on a regular basis. if not I would stand my ground she not be put into that group.

 

[Cindy B]

So, if I understand the ASK3 scoring, your daughter scored within proficient range?

Sometimes if its a low proficient, they will "up the ante" so to speak with math skill/language arts skills.

If it was a high/mid range proficient I would talk to them about that. If it was a low scoring proficient, plus the first chapter test fail, I would take the services offered. In most districts, the first chapter test is review of the prior years learning.

My sister and I are "Irish twins" so to speak. We are very close in age, and were only a few weeks difference than to be in the same grades. We both had academic issues after a move to a different district, and no one called one the smart one and the other the dumb one.

 

[bananiem]

Even if she scored "proficient" depending on the scores of the other kids she may be behind. Does that make sense? All in all it sounds like the first test was a strong indicator for this particular district. She failed the test because she didn't want to take the time to do it right. I just filled in the dots on a standardized test one year and then wondered why I was with the "dumb" kids the next year. I learned my lesson!

 

[mickeyboat]

I think I would request that your DD be allowed to re-take the Chapter 1 test. If she does well on it, and continues to do so, I see no need to get the extra help - especially in light of her profiency on the ASK3 test.

Denae

 

[debster812]

Put me in the camp of extra help is NEVER a bad thing. DS really benefitted from some Title 1 reading help.

I understand that you are concerned that she may be pigeonholed and compared with her twin, but if you can help her by getting extra help, that point may become moot. DS was 'highly proficient' and done with Title 1 in 6 weeks!

 

[Disney Ella]

Thanks for all of your replies. I agree that extra help isn't a bad thing if it's needed - and the child is not afraid of the teacher. Since I've worked with DD before successfully, I know I can help her again. She is so upset about this, and on the nervous side to begin with, that I don't want her to dread going to school because she has to work with this basic skills teacher.

I like the idea of asking her classroom teacher if she can possibly retake the test and see if there still is a problem when she slows down and takes her time.

 

[golfgal]

Another thing I would suggest is moving her band lesson to a different time slot so she isn't missing math class all the time for that. If you are willing to work with her at home, I would not put her in the extra class. I wouldn't hesitate to put her in the class if the teacher was fun, but going to a teacher that she is afraid for for a subject that isn't her best might just make things worse for her math grade.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Nice job pulling up the scores last year! My babysitter's daughter (who was reading and comprehending in K was "selected" to be in a summer reading program, due to a low score in 3rd grade...with 4th grade proficiencies looming! Her mom put her in, and boor Bec was miserable. She just wasn't in the same place, and other's in the class knew she was more proficient than them.

Maybe you could work with her on her speed. My boys would stress when given a time limit, and my DH used to also! eta: I did see that she missed because of a class...but it sure didn't register!

Good luck dealing with the school. Don't forget to breathe!

 

[Rajah]

Yeah, I like the idea of trying to have her retest where she can take her time.

I understand your concerns about putting her in the class with that teacher, and I'd feel the same.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I would have a SERIOUS problem with a school that allowed a child to miss MATH for a flute lesson!!!!

Perhaps you can give a little more insight on that situation?????

 

[Wishing on a star]

PS: The only way a child can be placed in Special Ed in my State is if the PARENTS sign to approve the necessary testing/evaluation, and then sign on the IEP plan. ONE missed test in no way gets a student into special ed.

I do not think that a school should be able to force this. I would be in the privacy of the Principals office until I had some real answers!!!!

 

[Cindy B]

I would have a SERIOUS problem with a school that allowed a child to miss MATH for a flute lesson!!!!

Perhaps you can give a little more insight on that situation?????

my son has oboe lessons. He gets pulled out at a certain time every week. Since he now switches classes, sometimes its math, language arts, science, well you get the idea.

The music lesson can not be switched because the music teacher is only .5 (half time) at this school, and has to travel to another school for more lessons. She is booked up lesson time wise, so you have to keep the time you have.

If they are flexible to change the music lessons, thats a great alternative. However in some cases, that is not that easy to do.

 

[Wishing on a star]

The evaluation that I just mentioned must be done by a qualified professional. (ie: Child Psychologist) A teacher is in NO way qualified to make this kind of determination.

Many people here already know the term that I have for teachers who think that they can make these judgments and control everything. (I will kindly refrain from repeating it at this time!!!)

 

[Wishing on a star]

my son has oboe lessons. He gets pulled out at a certain time every week. Since he now switches classes, sometimes its math, language arts, science, well you get the idea.

The music lesson can not be switched because the music teacher is only .5 (half time) at this school, and has to travel to another school for more lessons. She is booked up lesson time wise, so you have to keep the time you have.

If they are flexible to change the music lessons, thats a great alternative. However in some cases, that is not that easy to do.

Then my son would NOT be taking Oboe lessons at school!!!!

That is not a valid reason... Just an excuse.
Simply NO WAY would he miss math.

What are peoples priorities here????

 

[Rock'n Robin]

I think she should be able to wait until after the next chapter test, if retaking the first test is not an option. And she should take it during the whole math period, flute lesson or not. I love music but math is more important at this point, esp. for her.
As a teacher I know we have kids who have been pulled out of study halls or "non-essential" classes to be tutored if they have yet to pass the proficiency they need to pass to graduate. But this teacher sounds kind of abrasive about it. I would get the word right from the principal, not second hand from this woman.
Robin M.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Here is my personal example....

I am signing the necessary paperwork to get my son into Occupational Therapy for a bona-fide viseo-spatial-motor problem.

Well, the thing is, until they have the paperwork, and get it all worked out, nobody can tell me just when my son will be 'pulled' out of his classroom to go to OT.

You can bet your bottom dollar, that if the only time that they can pull him is during Reading or Math... I will put a VERY quick stop to my son recieving OT at school. And, this OT is a very important bona-fide necessity for him. But, NO WAY would I let this force him into Special Ed for Math or Reading. I can get OT for my son outside of school.

Very interesting situation... A child ends up labeled and placed in a Special Education Math program IN school, or needs Math tutoring outside of school, over flute lessons during math time AT school? I just can't wrap my brain around this one.