School shooting in CO

As for the defence question, I always find this dubious. Whilst it is true that stopping a homicidal maniac in his or her tracks using a firearm is very possible, getting the drop on them is not. Scenario: armed person knocks on your door. You open that door. He shoots you. What does NOT happen is you excuse yourself to go and fetch your firearm and shoot them first.

However, if you are in a school and you hear gunshots, as a teacher you can arm yourself and protect your students should the need arise.

Swings and roundabouts I guess.

Actually, a lot of people who own firearms for defense (and admittedly, I am not currently one) would never think of answering the door at night unarmed. Also, the primary defense in the home is from a break-in which typically produces noise. The hope is that there is enough time to wake from the noise, retrieve your weapon, and be ready to respond. And of course burglars are often unarmed, so it's not usually a case of someone breaking in specifically to shoot you - more likely, they're there to steal something they can sell in order to feed their drug habit. But yeah, if someone were to target you specifically, and do so successfully, you would have a difficult time responding in time to defend yourself.
 
I don't think of those as valid reasons to own a gun. I realize people do. But it wouldn't happen in my house, and my (not yet born) children would not be allowed in a house of someone who hunted or went target shooting.

How about if they have a pool? Or alcohol? Prescription drugs maybe. All have the potential to kill.
 
Who gave up our liberties after 9/11 in the name of terrorism? Who wants to limit reproductive freedom, our ability to love who we want, continue to criminalize recreational drugs, etc?

Trying to tread carefully here, but that first one has plenty of blame from both sides and the few attempts to roll it back have come neither of the "traditional" groups. And on the 2nd and 3rd parts, if the groups on one side didn't insist on getting the gov't involved in the first place, those who oppose them wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But, when there are laws that impact people's wallets, everyone has a right to have a say.
 
How about if they have a pool? Or alcohol? Prescription drugs maybe. All have the potential to kill.

Actually, the pool is far worse statistically speaking. Probably the prescription drugs too (but that's a guess).
 

You originally said police in Canada not just Toronto. Maybe the official policy in Toronto is that they don't take them home but that would be an official policy and not what actually happens.

You are arguing for the sake of arguing. Like I said apparently you know our officers more than we do. Have at it!
 
We also have our own "stand your ground" law, referred to as the "Make My Day Law." If you feel threatened in your home, you are allowed to shoot the intruder. Although we have pretty tough gun laws in regards to purchasing and even tougher laws on the magazines (magazines over 15 rounds are not allowed, cannot be sold or transferred), some of the other gun laws are crazy. For instance, both DH and adult DS got their concealed carry permits this summer. (I HATE guns, but they are both fanciers, I lost.). They took the required gun safety class online. Then went for an afternoon to the CCP class. They were absolutely shocked that not once did they have to touch a gun, did not have to prove their ability with a gun. You just have to take an online course (was the applicant really the one sitting in front of the computer?), show up for an afternoon, pass a background check and voila, you have a concealed carry permit. Pretty scary in my eyes.

As opposed to ohio where you have to show proficiency.
 
Actually, a lot of people who own firearms for defense (and admittedly, I am not currently one) would never think of answering the door at night unarmed. Also, the primary defense in the home is from a break-in which typically produces noise. The hope is that there is enough time to wake from the noise, retrieve your weapon, and be ready to respond. And of course burglars are often unarmed, so it's not usually a case of someone breaking in specifically to shoot you - more likely, they're there to steal something they can sell in order to feed their drug habit. But yeah, if someone were to target you specifically, and do so successfully, you would have a difficult time responding in time to defend yourself.

I wouldn't answer the door at night unarmed either. If someone tried to break in I would phone 911.

Like I've mentioned here, my husband has been on many squads in almost 30 years including the drug squad and the guns and gang task force. If there was a serious threat to his life, he would carry a gun 24/7. That has never been the case although I acknowledge it could happen.

I travel all over the US about 6 times a year and Americans often ask me about the gun laws. Most often the thinking is that if someone breaks into your home you need a gun to defend yourself.

Most Canadians do not think this way. It works for us.
 
I travel all over the US about 6 times a year and Americans often ask me about the gun laws. Most often the thinking is that if someone breaks into your home you need a gun to defend yourself.

Most Canadians do not think this way. It works for us.

It's somewhat of a chicken & egg thing. Particularly in rural areas, homes are as likely to have a gun as not. If someone breaks into a home, they know that. So, if you're home and someone is breaking in KNOWING you're home and KNOWING you're probably armed, odds are that is a pretty desperate person. That being the case, you would probably want to be armed.

So, you kind of have to be armed because anyone who'd come after you would assume you are - therefore, anyone who'd come after you is pretty much automatically a very dangerous person.

OTOH, a Canadian robber knows the homeowner is probably not armed, therefore there's less chance of a violent encounter. So, they could be coming into the home in an entirely different frame of mind than they would here - one that could be dealt with by an unarmed victim. Or, maybe breakins in occupied homes just aren't as common there (admittedly, they are rare where I live). Dunno.
 
DW does not have her license, but did take the class here. She had to pass a proficiency test with several calibers.

I don't have mine. But we target shoot and the kids hunt. They have hoes fill freezers at the homeless shelter and the food pantry. :)

I think that people who overreact to firearms are the same as those who over react to everything. Foolish.
 
I don't have mine. But we target shoot and the kids hunt. They have hoes fill freezers at the homeless shelter and the food pantry. :)

We only got 1 small deer this year among the 3 of us who hunt. We're hoarding what little meat there was :rotfl:
 
I wouldn't answer the door at night unarmed either. If someone tried to break in I would phone 911.

Like I've mentioned here, my husband has been on many squads in almost 30 years including the drug squad and the guns and gang task force. If there was a serious threat to his life, he would carry a gun 24/7. That has never been the case although I acknowledge it could happen.

I travel all over the US about 6 times a year and Americans often ask me about the gun laws. Most often the thinking is that if someone breaks into your home you need a gun to defend yourself.

Most Canadians do not think this way. It works for us.

We just wouldn't answer the door at all.
 
You seem to be quite fearful. I hate the assumption that guns kill humans. Nope, humans kill humans. Someone has to pull the trigger. Also, do you plan on screening every family your child comes in contact with? You will learn as a parent not to live in fear. Nothing is guaranteed in life, so sheltering them isn't going to improve the odds.

I'm not fearful, I am morally opposed to guns. I do ask the parents of my children's friends and would not allow my children to play at a home where guns are kept (it hasn't been an issue yet). The children of gun owners are welcome at our home (as are the gun owners themselves), but my children will not play at a home where guns are kept. It has nothing to do with guarantees, it has to do with my family's values.
 
First, you have to remember that in 1776 speak, "we'll regulated" actually means "well armed", not govt regulated the way we think of it today.

Also, the notion of cars being more heavily regulated than guns is false. The only requirement for owning a car is to achieve your 18th birthday. The regulation is all on the USE of a car. I took a 15 minute written test and a 30 minute driving test to get my drivers license. To get a hunting license, I was required to take a 12-hour class (over two days) followed by a 1-hour written test. A concealed carry license requires an additional test and class same as my upgrade to a class E drivers license.

Now, if you think that's not enough, you're well within your rights to think that. But the notion that cars are more heavily regulated then guns is false.

The idea of Chicago's problems being related to lax laws elsewhere also doesn't wash. If there were a connection there, the places with the lax laws would have even more violence than Chicago.

And the stats I've been reading for years have shown Australia's gun related crimes on the rise while ours are on the decline. Still a huge gap, admittedly.

Now, the cultural thing - you do have a point here. We are somewhat numb to this type of thing here. And there's a significant part of the criminal segment that believes its perfectly okay to settle small differences with murder. And if we cannot correct that, we will continue to have these problems. :(

I think these are fair points, though I disagree with some of them.

First, you're right that well-regulated has several meanings, although the most probable definition for the later eighteenth century means ordered. And ordered in turn means both working and moderated. However, the more important point is how the Supreme Court sees it; judicial precedent over the past 150 years has indicated well-regulated means that some impositions can be imposed. For example, you can't buy a bazooka (this is an extreme case, obviously). The government has the right to restrict that, according to the courts.

I don't disagree that hunting licenses may have more rules than car licenses. But you're perfectly able to own a gun in your house without having a hunting license. What I was proposing is a license in order to buy a gun, not just use it to hunt. And to get that license, a brief course on gun safety, gun handling, and a serious background check.

I don't think that Chicago gun crime is due solely to the ability to buy legal guns in suburban Cook County. (I think it has a lot more to do with socio-economic problems and a gun culture--combined with easy access to guns.) What I was saying is that holding Chicago up as a failed case for gun control isn't particularly fair; there may be strict gun control in Chicago, but the city's suburbs are little regulated. My whole argument is that it's more complicated than just gun control or culture or mental health or poverty--it's a dangerous cocktail of all of these.

Australia's gun crime has fluctuated, but it's still way below ours. As I said, I don't think it would have the same effect in America. But I do think that sticking our fingers in our ears and doing nothing hasn't accomplished much, so we should start trying to come together in the middle to get something done. If gun rights people could accept restrictions, and gun control people could accept that people want to own guns in some capacity, I think there is a rough bit of middle ground.

But do you know what happened after Newtown? The gun first reported to be used, the Bushmaster, saw its sales skyrocket. Sales are up almost a third this year. People didn't move away from violence, they moved towards it. They were worried there was going to be a restriction, and instead of thinking about how they might engage in that debate, they decided to grab the semi-automatic gun used in the shooting. They didn't move away from violence, they moved towards it. I understand why they did it, I get the rhetoric, but I find it really disturbing.
 
I'm not fearful, I am morally opposed to guns. I do ask the parents of my children's friends and would not allow my children to play at a home where guns are kept (it hasn't been an issue yet). The children of gun owners are welcome at our home (as are the gun owners themselves), but my children will not play at a home where guns are kept. It has nothing to do with guarantees, it has to do with my family's values.

If its not about guarantees of keeping them safe, what values if you don't mind me asking?
 


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