School now banning all "out of term" holiday leave

[mickeyforpresident]

I am a teacher and I don't think like this! I have 3 kids and it drives me mad too when I am asked for yet another costume etc. I believe that I live outside the school 'bubble' and have a reasonably firm grip on reality. I too have a job and my children's school to consider. Education is (obviously) a big part of my life but it isn't the most important thing in my life! My life does not revolve around school - my job will never be as important as my family.

Some teachers are parents too!

Agreed! My son's school is so disorganised when it comes to costumes etc. This is partly why I'm a little too organised with letters and requests coming from my school!

 

[mickeyforpresident]

WHAT????!!! You mean you actually live in a house? In a street, where other people live too?

I feel like I live at school!

 

[UKDEB]

You are both right and wrong. You do not have a right (yes, my words) to take your child out of school.

Precisely what I said - I don't have a right (but that doesn't make it illegal).

You can of course for legitimate reasons (e.g medical appts).

Again, precisely what I said.

Term Time Holidays are not a right and should be marked as unauthorised.

Again, what I said.

You clock up "x" (in my authority it's 12 days - so more than two weeks) the school can issue a penalty notice. You could also lose your child's place

And again.

I don't know of any extenuating circumstances if it were a holiday you took when you weren't given permission to do so. This wouldn't be a exclusion. You would have failed to bring your child into school and therefore lost the place. Probably over subscribed schools would be able to do this.

Well, this is one area where I've clearly misunderstood the language. Losing your place does not equate to your child being excluded from the school in question? My point is that any attempt to exclude my child, or to fine me as a parent, would fail if my only "crime" was to take my child out of school for an annual holiday, particularly if the circumstances of our employment prevented my husband and me from taking time off during school holidays.

Also, persistent unuthorised absence, for example, the failure to bring your child to school could (but a VERY BIG could) lead you to prosecution which could (again a VERY BIG COULD) lead the parents to being imprisonned.

This is what I meant by extenuating circumstances. There would have to be more to it than simply taking a child out of school for an annual family holiday.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm just outlining the facts (from my point of view / professional standing). I don't agree with it fully.

Ditto.

You're actually saying exactly what I did, but with a different spin (because we're coming at it from different standpoints).

 

[katytrott]

The bubble that people refer to isn't about whether you have a family or not, its about if you've experienced the big wide working world outside of school. For so many teachers they have spent their entire life at school. It starts at nursery then infant school. Then primary school. Then high school. Then 6th form. Then uni. And when it comes to work [you guessed it] back to school.

For this reason it is a bubble and many many teacher have no grasp of things external to that something I've seen with numerous teachers I know

This describes my old best friend from my school days. Primary, middle, secondary and 6th form all within a mile radius of each other that included her home. Teacher training then at the next town so she could stay living with her parents, and now living just down the road from her parents and working as a primary teacher in the school next to the one we attended!

Our friendship has really diminished over the years - mainly because I feel we have absolutely diddlysquat in common with each other since we were 11. It is hard to describe what it is like chatting to someone who has little to no concept or opinion on anything like ethics/politics/world affairs etc, etc. Her world revolves around school in the day and going out to local pubs/bars in the evening. I sometimes imagine her teaching my kids and shudder!

I am sure officially you don't need "life experience" to be a teacher, obvioulsy all you need to know is how to teach. However - a number of years ago, BC (Before Children), I considered changing my path as a District Nurse, slightly, into training to be a Health Visitor. I got as far as being interviewed for a space on the course, but pulled out, after deciding that I was a woman without children. I was told by the Uni/Health Trust that it didn't matter as we would be using "evidenced based practice", and learn/teach up to date research - but it just didn't sit right with me teaching mums how to deal with newborns/toddlers when I had no experience of what it is really like. Now, I feel I could be a genuine supportive and empathetic Health Visitor - really what most mums want.

Sorry, have just realised just how far off topic my post is - but as I spent a fair bit time writing it, I'm posting it!!

 

[katytrott]

Don't know if anyone else has noticed - this thread must take the award as the thread with the least amont of typos, errors and lazy writing!

Maybe the teachers here are practicing what they preach and the non teachers are working hard to avoid a low grade

 

[2Tiggies]

Don't know if anyone else has noticed - this thread must take the award as the thread with the least amont of typos, errors and lazy writing!

Maybe the teachers here are practicing what they preach and the non teachers are working hard to avoid a low grade

Quick - edit your text and I'll edit mine to delete the above quote from your post.

 

[katytrott]

Quick - edit your text and I'll edit mine to delete the above quote from your post.

Well done - you spotted the deliberate mistake

I can't believe I did that - I'm normally so thorough

 

[wishspirit]

You know, I can totally understand that, as a teacher, you would feel this way. I've absolutely no doubt that if I were a teacher, I would think that way, too. But please understand that I have an entirely different point of view. For me, school is a part of my child's life; a big part of my child's life (and, thus, mine, too), but our lives do not revolve around it in the way that teachers imagine it does/should. I have huge issues with our education system - far too involved for this thread - and other separate issues with schools themselves. As a former co-opted governor, I felt I brought a balance to the board I served on. The Head Teacher was a truly exceptional individual - committed and passionate, but unbelievably blinkered in some respects. She knew I admired and respected her and would never have dreamed of undermining her authority. In turn, I knew she valued the fact that I wasn't afraid to challenge and to think laterally.

All my adult life, I've worked full-time in a demanding job. I've lost count of the number of times I received a list of equipment required for a school trip or the like, the night before. This, to me, is an example of teachers thinking that, because their lives naturally revolve around school, it's the same for the rest of us. We have school and jobs to consider; for teachers, it's one and the same. That simply isn't conducive to gaining an understanding of what is reality for those of us living outside the school bubble. I don't mean that to come across as condescending, but I have seen enough in my time to believe it's a fair assessment.

I think you are tarring all teachers with a rather mucky brush here. Some teachers are disorganised, as probably some of your co-workers are, but they are human beings doing a tough job too. They often have homes and families at the end of the day just the same as you. Everyone gets a little caught up in their work bubble if they are passionate about their jobs, like most teachers are. If a request gets sent too late, go in the next day and explain how you'd of loved to have provided it, but it did arrive too late.

I think we should cut teachers a bit of slack, they do an excellent job overall!

The bubble that people refer to isn't about whether you have a family or not, its about if you've experienced the big wide working world outside of school. For so many teachers they have spent their entire life at school. It starts at nursery then infant school. Then primary school. Then high school. Then 6th form. Then uni. And when it comes to work [you guessed it] back to school.

For this reason it is a bubble and many many teacher have no grasp of things external to that something I've seen with numerous teachers I know

See, I find this a little upsetting. I am a university student applying for Primary PGCE's (and it is NOT a walk in! They aren't taking on anyone without significant work in schools as well as something else interesting to their name) and the reason why I want to jump back into being at a school is because I love kids! I have worked throughout my time at University (all be it part time), and I think I have a grasp of what parents have to deal with, as well as teachers.

I think the 'bubble' you guys are referring to is passion. They are passionate about what they do (otherwise all the other crud they have to deal with just wouldn't be worth it). Yes it can make anyone a little insular, but teachers have a lot to juggle in their working day.

god, i wish it was

i myself had a career outside of school, i trained in nutrition/catering and worked in hotels (and i challenge anyone to find a harder job, both physically and mentally) and then retrained to teach following the arrival of my children (i actually recived a credit card bill for £100 which i couldnt pay OMG if my bills were that small now
i totally agree that some teachers have done that school-uni-school thing but in general they are the worst teachers and kids do pick up on this, the ability to manage 30 unruly kids is alot easier when you have managed a drunken stag do - trust me
life skills make teachers human, and i am glad that i have a life outside of the classroom.
are we not drifting off subject again?

I know you are trying to be jovial here, but I really don't think (or maybe want to believe) that's true. I understand that great teaching comes with experience, and NQT's can be a little bit shaky on their feet when it comes to dealing with a class, however it is only by trying can these things be achieved. Many people who are now coming out of PGCE's have more than just a degree to their name. I, for instance, have run a playscheme for children with special needs, and been working there for the last 3 years, and 2 years before that as a volunteer. I have a great deal of experience in behaviour management and communication, as well as really knowing where my passion is!

I get as annoyed as you when I hear people I am at uni with saying they are thinking of becoming teachers 'because they can't think of anything better to do'. Luckily (or unluckily for me as it is making my task a lot harder) PGCE's aren't letting those people in any more, a lot of people are having to spend a year as teaching assistants or volunteering in a school 3 days a week to even get on to these courses. I am willing to do whatever it takes to be a teacher, even if it does mean taking a few years out of training to get there.

Sorry, I just had to add my piece. Please cut teachers a bit of slack! Especially the newly qualified!

 

[scojos]

Sorry, I just had to add my piece. Please cut teachers a bit of slack! Especially the newly qualified!

I have taught with some excellent NQTs, at my previous school, which has just been ofsteded , the only outstanding came from an NQT, they are generally more willing to try new things, have no pre conceived ideas of what is good or bad and will therefore try anything
when i first qualified (about 6 years ago now), i was 30, so "been there done that" had worked in industry for about 9 years, and had 3 kids of my own (inc a new born baby... i too worked liked a trojan to qualify!)
i walked into my HOD and said "that lesson didnt work". she looked at me and said "why?, the class was quiet and calm, you didnt come and get me so no issues, why didnt it work?"
i dropped my head and said "because they didnt understand what i was trying to teach, it was a very simple lesson, that a-b-c-d etc in an industrial sense, but they didnt "get" it.
she looked at me and said "you ve just become an outstanding teacher, if you can see your lesson from the angle of the class and undertstnad they didnt get it and why, you ll make an amazing teacher
this comment has stuck with me for a very long time, and now i am the "old wise one", i tell this to my GTPs.
goodluck training, i for one am glad that unis are looking for some "life" in new teachers
tracy

 

[joolz1910]

Sorry, I just had to add my piece. Please cut teachers a bit of slack! Especially the newly qualified!

I've been teaching for 17 years (yes I was one of those people who never left education, I am 'bubble woman') and I have seen it all! It doesn't matter one jot whether you have 'life/work experience', '25 years in teaching' or it's your 'NQT year' - it's about whether you can communicate your passion for your subject. It also helps if you like kids.

 

[joolz1910]

This describes my old best friend from my school days. Primary, middle, secondary and 6th form all within a mile radius of each other that included her home. Teacher training then at the next town so she could stay living with her parents, and now living just down the road from her parents and working as a primary teacher in the school next to the one we attended!

Our friendship has really diminished over the years - mainly because I feel we have absolutely diddlysquat in common with each other since we were 11. It is hard to describe what it is like chatting to someone who has little to no concept or opinion on anything like ethics/politics/world affairs etc, etc. Her world revolves around school in the day and going out to local pubs/bars in the evening. I sometimes imagine her teaching my kids and shudder!

No kidding?

 

[scojos]

I've been teaching for 17 years (yes I was one of those people who never left education, I am 'bubble woman') and I have seen it all! It doesn't matter one jot whether you have 'life/work experience', '25 years in teaching' or it's your 'NQT year' - it's about whether you can communicate your passion for your subject. It also helps if you like kids.

are you following me around???

 

[joolz1910]

are you following me around???

I sure am.

 

[crabbie1]

dont want to start another debate or upset anyone but I am taking my daughter out of school for the ten days(not done this before) and am worried incase our plane is delayed etc or my daughter is genuinly ill when she comes back.Would I get into trouble,would she be marked absent? Obviously she is only young(7) but dont want to get into trouble. Thanks for any advice

 

[joolz1910]

dont want to start another debate or upset anyone but I am taking my daughter out of school for the ten days(not done this before) and am worried incase our plane is delayed etc or my daughter is genuinly ill when she comes back.Would I get into trouble,would she be marked absent? Obviously she is only young(7) but dont want to get into trouble. Thanks for any advice

I wouldn't worry about it. Just let the school know if your plane was delayed or if she is ill.

 

[scojos]

dont want to start another debate or upset anyone but I am taking my daughter out of school for the ten days(not done this before) and am worried incase our plane is delayed etc or my daughter is genuinly ill when she comes back.Would I get into trouble,would she be marked absent? Obviously she is only young(7) but dont want to get into trouble. Thanks for any advice

before i was a teacher we took the kids out of school for a few days, but didnt facture on jetlag, and boy do we get it bad in our house, instead of 2 days, they missed a week, the only thing the head said to me was the next time i had a week off for disney, could i send them back with an "off switch" as they hadnt shut up
pooh happens, most people understand

 

[UKDEB]

Oops! Often with discussion forums, ones meanings get muddled. I wasn't suggesting that living inside the school "bubble" makes teachers bad at teaching, but it can seem (to those of us looking in from the outside) that life totally revolves around school. Even that's not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, provided those inside the system can truly comprehend that the rest of us are unlikely to share that all-consuming view.

In all professions you'll get the gamut of competencies, from the truly awful to the exceptional. I was often embarrassed and frustrated by the behaviour of some of my colleagues. Others I could only aspire to emulate. I do think it's sad that the old adage that "all teachers are teachers of English" no longer holds true. What happened to capitalisation, grammar, punctuation, syntax...? The system definitely failed my girls in that respect and I was forced to teach them myself.

 

[joolz1910]

I do think it's sad that the old adage that "all teachers are teachers of English" no longer holds true. What happened to capitalisation, grammar, punctuation, syntax...? The system definitely failed my girls in that respect and I was forced to teach them myself.

A provocative comment...

 

[UKDEB]

A provocative comment...

Not intentionally provocative; just observational. And I do feel genuinely sad about it.

 

[joolz1910]

Not intentionally provocative; just observational. And I do feel genuinely sad about it.

I had a conversation with a colleague a few weeks ago about accurate English. I had corrected one of his reports (I have to do this) and he accused me of being a pedant. He had confused practice/practise and was genuinely annoyed that I had highlighted it. He has been teaching for about 25 years.