First Riviera ROFR

[RivShore]

Everything I can find puts international tourism to Orlando/WDW at over double your 10% number (see this article, for example https://www.connollycove.com/disney-tourism-statistics/) so I’d be interested in reading your sources.

I was just looking at general Orlando visitor because I know Visit Orlando does a good job of tracking such things and I would think how Orlando goes so goes WDW and visa versa.

 

[Mouseforward]

So, perhaps you should step back a bit.

Nah , the view is much better from the real world.

 

[Brian Noble]

I do so appreciate a good ad hominem attack. I don't respect it, but I appreciate it.

You may have the last word if you like; I will return to discussing DVC.

 

[RivShore]

I do so appreciate a good ad hominem attack. I don't respect it, but I appreciate it.

You may have the last word if you like; I will return to discussing DVC.

Apparently I need to ask AI what this fight is even about cause I am lost! lol

 

[Carouselofplanning]

Im just guessing but it’s likely part of a long term plan. DVC has been watching how much meat is left on the bone that a huge resale market has been built. But DVD doesn’t make a dime on resale. My bet is eventually they will have a way to bring resale back into their sandbox. If people arebuying restricted resales low price, that leaves room for a ‘washed points’ price.

A washed points concept isn’t a terrible idea and maybe you are right on that eventually happening. As I’ve said before, they created this situation with oversupply. Every new hotel is now a timeshare and even old resorts are being converted into them.

That having been said, Disney (the parent) does make plenty of money off of resale via guest spend. Whether the customer bought direct or resale, they are happily coming to the resort to be a customer of Disney Parks and Experiences. You can’t pay for the rest of your vacation with points - just the room. Granted the timeshare division isn’t making money on the resale (although they did when it was originally sold - not sure how much more valuable the direct buyer is to them say 20 years later) but the rest of the company is making money on food, merch, park tickets, etc.

 

[Mouseforward]

As I’ve said before, they created this situation with oversupply.

I certainly don’t disagree with your overall points. However, on this point - LSL makes me question the common wisdom that there is oversupply. What internal data does WDW have that says “ we need 900 more rooms in MK” ?

Reflections could have been left dead

 

[Brianstl]

Funny thing is the only ones not using AI are the professors, failure to use AI in any software company and you will be finding yourself unemployed.

Until their AI has a hallucination and the company gets sued out of business.

It is, also, a money and productivity loser for companies.

https://www.axios.com/2025/08/21/ai-wall-street-big-tech

It is good if you want to create memes, become a YouTube content machine or just create some art.

 

[Carouselofplanning]

I certainly don’t disagree with your overall points. However, on this point - LSL makes me question the common wisdom that there is oversupply. What internal data does WDW have that says “ we need 900 more rooms in MK” ?

Reflections could have been left dead

I should have made myself clear, sorry. Rooms are one thing. And I agree if they are measuring park capacity and predicting expansion then by all means build more rooms. However, why do these rooms need to always be DVC? The more points that are out there, the more problems they create whether it’s more resale or more point rentals (another thing they dislike because they don’t make the sale). It’s a have your cake and eat it too situation. If you don’t buy DVC you better rent your room from me…but now my timeshare customers control more inventory than I do!? Doh!

 

[Tatebeck]

Cars and Villain's expansion are the likely reason. New resort, new expansions, (and hopefully more onsite benefits) = easy money

 

[Mouseforward]

However, why do these rooms need to always be DVC?

I was more shocked by the majority being cash rooms.

As far as DVC I assume they can build and sell for as long as the math works. I do think they have been shorting quality for quantity possibly testing the limits of what the market will tolerate.

 

[RivShore]

Until their AI has a hallucination and the company gets sued out of business.

It is, also, a money and productivity loser for companies.

https://www.axios.com/2025/08/21/ai-wall-street-big-tech

It is good if you want to create memes, become a YouTube content machine or just create some art.

Last 2 paragraphs of this article sums up my feelings of the current status of AI - best use case is as cover to layoff people:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/02/sal...ayoffs-because-i-need-less-heads-with-ai.html

 

[Carouselofplanning]

Some comments on these:

1) Foreign tourists make up less than 10% of Orlando visitors, I was surprised it was that little. (We had some good data on our stock thread on that but of course I can't find it now.) That means that even if it dropped by a third, it would just amount to a couple percent less in overall visitors.

2) Your comparison is nothing like EU/WDW - EU will draw more overall visitors to Orlando and many of them will find their way to WDW, it is exactly what happened when HP opened, both Universal and WDW attendance went up.

3) This is certainly true and it's frustratingly happening everywhere. I dread calling or chatting with help desks, and the supposed AI improvements do nothing but make it more frustrating!

Funny you mention foreign tourists. Last week felt like UK week at Disney World. British accents all over the place especially at Animal Kingdom Lodge!

 

[Tumnus]

This does not do what you think it does.
-signed, a computer science professor.

(The current versions of the Plagiarism Machine can't even do simple math correctly.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/comments/1mkrrbx/chatgpt_5_has_unrivaled_math_skills

I tried to get chatGPT to make a fun powerpoint presentation for the kids about our 2026 disney trips. It...could not do it. Not even a little bit. Took about 100 back and forth clarification questions and then said "here's the file" with no file and said actually I can't do that do you want some Python code?

 

[Carouselofplanning]

Apparently I need to ask AI what this fight is even about cause I am lost! lol

Sir, this is a Wendy’s.

 

[Sandisw]

So why is it that we don’t have the data about how long direct buyers hold on to their contracts? If all WDW DVC direct sales as well as resales are recorded and available for the public to see on the Orange County website, it seems that someone smarter than me should be able to search and compile this data, no?

Because you’d have to go through every resort and search each individual deed and then back track it to see if the sale was from someone who bought it direct or resale.

It would be pretty hard to do because very contract would need to be checked.

So, the info is available in terms of being able to find deeds on the OCC site for FL properties…but it’s not something that is compiled other than by DVD.

 

[atthebeachclub]

Apparently I need to ask AI what this fight is even about cause I am lost! lol

Yeah, I'm not following where this aggression came from either. It seems to be an attack based on the idea that those in higher education's "ivory towers" don't do "real work" like those in regular jobs. Never mind that private enterprise typically pays much, much more than higher education. If I chose to pursue the path of instructor rather than working in the real world, I'd be making at least 30% less than I do. College professors don't have it so easy as many think.

It would be nice to have more information on sales prices. And that information is available, but it is not reported through a central agency like an MLS, and it also is not easy to access through the Orange County Comptroller website. You'd need some sort of bot to get the downloads of contracts in the first place and keep clicking through the "are you human" tests.

 

[PolyRob]

Oh, it's perfectly good at writing code that is almost right.

I asked ChatGPT to build a shortcut for me in iOS for a basic command to see if it would build it the same way I did. ChatGPT flat out told me it could't be done. I informed ChatGPT that it was possible because I did it. It then asked me how I did it and I refused to share my knowledge

 

[PolyRob]

I was more shocked by the majority being cash rooms.

I am perplexed by this as well. Why is Disney converting cash rooms to DVC while also building cash inventory with some of the worst views at LSL? WL lost half of it's inventory to CCV, but WDW expects PVB IT 2.0 with trees instead of sea turtles to fill at rack rate for cash guests?

 

[davidhr]

I know AI is out of topic, but I believe it should be mandatory that the first question you ask the chatbot is to explain in simple terms how they work, as I see people trusting way too much those answers. Then you'll realize it has no idea what's is answering. The model (in simple terms) predicts what the next word is the most likely to be in the answer, based on the question (and previous words answered). And it's doing that for every single word in the answer.

That's why the models struggle with some simple questions like 'How many letters are in the phrase "Hakuna Matata"?'. Spoiler Alert: It's not going to count the letters.

It's an amazing tool if you understand this and use it knowing that.

 

[Mouseforward]

It's an amazing tool if you understand this and use it knowing that

Correct, it’s this generation‘s “ don’t trust the Internet” knee-jerk response. There’s a right and a wrong way to use each tool.

The difference is the speed at which it is changing the workplace. I feel like we had plenty of time for everyone to get comfortable with the Internet, email, etc.. but now if you’re not spending the majority of your continuing education time on AI, you are making yourself a dinosaur in my industry and just like dinosaur the ride, you won’t be here long.