School holidays vs taking child out of school?

[joolz1910]

I don't feel the need to justify my decision to take my children out of school for a holiday, and I don't judge other parents' decisions to do the same.

I do worry about the punitive measures this govenment is beginning to take against parents wanting to take their children out of school. From September, Headteachers will not be able to authorise term-time holidays - your request will be turned down and the absence will be unauthorised. Although this is hardly the 'end of the world', it could trigger a fine. This annoys the hell out of me.
And I'm a teacher...

 

[Ciorsdah]

This has turned into a really interesting thread! It's interesting to see it from the teachers point of view, that basically as long as the time taken doesn't interfere with any major exams etc the overall tone is 'its up to you'.

I never was taken out of school for a holiday, but I was lucky enough to travel during the holidays (father worked overseas) and I gained so much knowledge from these trips and an understanding of other cultures that it was invaluable to me growing up.

Personally I think it's wonderful that everyone has acknowledged to speak to the school but ultimately it's their decision. I think it's appalling that you can be fined, especially if you aren't the ones abusing it!

Another factor for the people I know is work holiday rotas. In my office we have more parents than non parents, as a result its a total scramble for the start of summer holidays (in Scotland ours start earlier so its cheaper to go away those first 2 weeks) or the Oct break. Not every parent can get these times off, so they have to decide between a family holiday out with school holidays and in term time or nothing at all. Which I think is hard going, especially when you add the worry and fear of a fine or a visit from the social work!

 

[zippy99]

For many years we were tied by work for when we could go away - Easter was a no-no for me and August & December a no-no for DH as these were our busiest times at work. Therefore for a two week holiday we were limited.

When the children were 7 & 9 we did 2 weeks in January and after that 2 weeks in September - the next two trips we tagged a week on to the October holidays - my DD is just going into year 11 and following a campaign at his work - my husband can now take time off in August so we stick to the summer holidays now as the exams have to take priority.

To be honest I think it depends on your children and personal circumstances - whilst the new rules may mean any absence is marked as unauthorised it does not follow that you will be fined

 

[wilma-bride]

whilst the new rules may mean any absence is marked as unauthorised it does not follow that you will be fined

This is a very important point. I have seen so much correspondence, petitions, outcry etc. from people about the new policy for authorising term-time holidays and it is all over nothing. As Zoe quite rightly points out, just because the absence is unauthorised it does not necessarily mean parents will be fined. Most (if not all) schools in Wiltshire have had a policy of not authorising term-time holidays for nearly 3 years now. So any holidays we take during term-time are unauthorised. Wiltshire local authority has a policy where they will not issue a fine unless a child has had more than 10 absences in the past 6 months. And then they issue a warning letter (and opportunity to improve attendance) first. So only those who do take their children out 'to excess' will be penalised, which to me is the right way to address it. With the exception of last year, we have taken our DS out for up to 5 days (which is recorded as 10 absences) and haven't received a warning letter, let alone a fine.

Our DS is starting secondary school in September 2014 and, although we will be taking him out for a few days that October (due to an arranged family holiday), that will be the last time we will do it. I know, from experience, that it can be harder for children to catch up with work missed at secondary/GCSE level and I don't want to put him at a disadvantage if I don't have to. TBH, the price of October flights (our travel period of choice) has shot up so much in the past few years that it is just as cheap to go in the summer holidays now anyway (particularly the last 2 weeks of August).

 

[higgy66]

We have taken our DD's out of school every October during Primary school - taggng a week onto half term

We have had no problems with the Head Teacher however as from 1St Septmer the decision has now been taken out of the Head's hands and she can no longer approve any authorised leave unless the parents are in the forces etc or there are special circumstances. I have to say she is very embarrassed as she has always approved up to 10 days leave requesting parents to avoid May due to exam times and assessments

I have no issues paying the fine which would be £50 per child per adult so for the 2 girls would be £200 total but what annoys me is that even after paying the fine the leave is still unauthrorised and goes on the childs record? Does anyone know what affect that has on the child? Where this record goes and who sees it??

As we applied for leave in April we have been given approval for October 2013 as the new rules don't come into force 1st Septmeber.

 

[scoobydooby]

We have taken our DD's out of school every October during Primary school - taggng a week onto half term

We have had no problems with the Head Teacher however as from 1St Septmer the decision has now been taken out of the Head's hands and she can no longer approve any authorised leave unless the parents are in the forces etc or there are special circumstances. I have to say she is very embarrassed as she has always approved up to 10 days leave requesting parents to avoid May due to exam times and assessments

I have no issues paying the fine which would be £50 per child per adult so for the 2 girls would be £200 total but what annoys me is that even after paying the fine the leave is still unauthrorised and goes on the childs record? Does anyone know what affect that has on the child? Where this record goes and who sees it??

As we applied for leave in April we have been given approval for October 2013 as the new rules don't come into force 1st Septmeber.

It is relevant to the schools Ofsted rating. It is only relevant to your children if their attendance hits the mark it triggers a referral to Education Welfare Officers. Or if it affects them at school of course, which only you and their teachers can decide.

 

[luke]

I wonder if parents would be happy if a teacher took two weeks off school in the middle of term because it would be cheaper to go on holiday then...

 

[Laurafoster]

I wonder if parents would be happy if a teacher took two weeks off school in the middle of term because it would be cheaper to go on holiday then...

Slightly different. Nobody is told to work in a school, they make the decision knowing all the facts about holidays so its their choice. (And of course we all appreciate the ones that still choose to do so)

Its the same as me complaining about not being allowed time off over Christmas or financial year end. Its in my contract, i knew before i signed the contract, if i dont like it then i can choose a different job.

 

[joolz1910]

Slightly different. Nobody is told to work in a school, they make the decision knowing all the facts about holidays so its their choice. (And of course we all appreciate the ones that still choose to do so)

Its the same as me complaining about not being allowed time off over Christmas or financial year end. Its in my contract, i knew before i signed the contract, if i dont like it then i can choose a different job.

Yep, as a teacher I know that I don't get to choose my holidays - that's just the way it is. When I had a job-share contract, I did (with the Head /Governors' permission) take a week during term-time as my job-share partner covered me. I also covered her when she was on maternity leave, so it worked both ways!

And just to reiterate Joh's point - the fines are hardly issued. I know of ONE person who has been fined, but they are increasing to £60 from September.

 

[2Tiggies]

I wonder if parents would be happy if a teacher took two weeks off school in the middle of term because it would be cheaper to go on holiday then...

Honestly, if they put a decent substitute teacher in, I have no problem with it. DD has regularly had her class teacher away for a week, a month or more for various reasons over the years and someone else has been brought in and the kids have always loved their 'temp teacher'. That would be a matter for the Head to approve just as we have to get our leave authorized by our bosses in other sectors of employment. If they avoided crucial times like the run up to exams etc, just like we do when we take our kids out (those of us who do) then I'm not judging anyone for doing the same as I do. I see my reasons as justified so I would accept theirs to be too.

 

[luke]

Thing is though, we can't go whenever we want. That's what rankles with me to be honest.
I'd never complain about the amount of time we get off, but wow do we pay a premium should we actually want to go anywhere

 

[luke]

.

 

[joolz1910]

Thing is though, we can't go whenever we want. That's what rankles with me to be honest.
I'd never complain about the amount of time we get off, but wow do we pay a premium should we actually want to go anywhere

Ain't that the truth

When I was a job-share it was agreed that I could take a term-time holiday because the students were used to having both of us (we job-shared for 7 years) and it would not cost the school a penny. If I wanted to do it now, I would have to pay for a supply teacher!

I wish that there was a way of getting lieu days for all the unofficial overtime we do!

 

[2Tiggies]

Thing is though, we can't go whenever we want. That's what rankles with me to be honest.
I'd never complain about the amount of time we get off, but wow do we pay a premium should we actually want to go anywhere

I hear you Luke This is the first time I am not wanting DD to miss school as she starts First Year in August and that is a choice I made, with her. I am taking her out the last few days of the school year as it seemed the safest time to do it and I won't argue with you that the prices on Scottish departures from the day after schools close rocket up at a scary rate - and that's just the few that are released at the moment.

I still think this would be resolved partially and more fairly if the schools cut this long summer break and divvied up the hols more evenly through the year to allow parents and pupils more options. I don't WANT to take DD out of school and if I could afford not to I would never do it. I am quite happy that my reasons are justified but in an ideal world, she would not miss school. Aside from our one unauthorized and subsequent 4 authorized absences for our previous trips, she has had 3 sick days from school in 7 years. It would be nice to keep that perfect record but we just can't afford it.

 

[Elise79]

Slightly different. Nobody is told to work in a school, they make the decision knowing all the facts about holidays so its their choice. (And of course we all appreciate the ones that still choose to do so)

Its the same as me complaining about not being allowed time off over Christmas or financial year end. Its in my contract, i knew before i signed the contract, if i dont like it then i can choose a different job.

Just to play devil advocate though We all know when we choose to have children that they will have to go to school and that when we can go on holidays will be restricted by school.

We also all choose to take our children to Florida - no one is forcing us.

Just another way to look at it

 

[luke]

Just to play devil advocate though We all know when we choose to have children that they will have to go to school and that when we can go on holidays will be restricted by school.

We also all choose to take our children to Florida - no one is forcing us.

Just another way to look at it

Nicely said

 

[Laurafoster]

Just to play devil advocate though We all know when we choose to have children that they will have to go to school and that when we can go on holidays will be restricted by school.

We also all choose to take our children to Florida - no one is forcing us.

Just another way to look at it

Which is exactly why i said i will be going in half terms.

 

[Kath2003]

Thing is though, we can't go whenever we want. That's what rankles with me to be honest.
I'd never complain about the amount of time we get off, but wow do we pay a premium should we actually want to go anywhere

Yep - teachers actually probably go on fewer holidays than most people, despite having more time off work, because of the premium. We get a lot of time off and no teacher would argue that it's not an enormous perk of the job - but there is NO flexibility (e.g. can't take a morning off to wait for a washing machine to be delivered, or for the boiler to get fixed etc.) and when you're off work, all the kids are off school too.

 

[scoobydooby]

Yep - teachers actually probably go on fewer holidays than most people, despite having more time off work, because of the premium. We get a lot of time off and no teacher would argue that it's not an enormous perk of the job - but there is NO flexibility (e.g. can't take a morning off to wait for a washing machine to be delivered, or for the boiler to get fixed etc.) and when you're off work, all the kids are off school too.

Yes. But if you're like me ( and loads of other parents) and you don't take your children out of school for holidays, then you just pay the school holiday premium anyway as well and fit your holidays into your annual leave allocation. I get 32 days but I know that's more than most people. I have no flexibility with my 32 days. It has to be in school holidays as that's when I need my child care. Me and DH have to spend all but 2 weeks leave a year on separate time off to accommodate the fact we get 7 weeks less leave than school holidays. The days that aren't covered we pay child care. I'm not knocking teachers at all. I come from a family of teachers.

 

[Tanzanite]

OK - lets start by saying I really hope this doenst turn into a holidays vs travel education style "debate" as what happens on some other boards!!

I was chatting to my friends, basically none of them really "get" why I love WDW so much, but they all said that when they had kids (some have children) that they would love to go.

The topic of when to go popped up, of course I said that being childless I'm open to any time fo the year, but September/Oct/Nov seem to be great times for us personally. This brought with it "but children cant get out of school then, outwith Oct break, we'll be fined". The group was split between the "just take them out and pay the fine" mind set, and the "why not hold off a year, save really hard and have an amazing trip (and possibly a longer trip) in the summer when the kids are off.

One of the mums said that she felt like she would never get a chance to go, because its so expensive and to go in summer when flights are at a peak cost also would be prohibative for her. The thought of a fine terrified her!

I think, personally, that each parent should decide for themselves what works for their family. Fining parents for taking their children out of school seems a bit drastic, especially if the child has had perfect attendance up to that point.

What is the feeling around here about it? Would you take some time from school for the trip, or postpone a year until you had more saved up etc?

I live here in USA and have taken my kids out in fact to come see my family in London I have to take my 3 kids out at Christmas to see my Mum she cant come to me due to illness they always threaten me send nasty letters but if I didn't I could not afford summer rates plus I need to see my family for holidays I have also taken them out for a cruise I feel a parent should do what she feels best for them do what you feel is right for you time goes so fast and kids learn a lot from travel . most parents don't do it every year I think fining parents is crazy my kids don't take many days off but if I take them out its my choice if they had bad grades I would feel different but they work hard and always make up school work I ask in advance for it if possible or make it up when return.