School District/Gifted kids

[Callie]

I was one of "those" kids.
In 4th grade I entered the Depth Program for our school corporation, where we were a special class at a special school and we did all sorts of cool stuff. Heck I wrote an 8 page paper and gave an hour presentation in 5th grade, and had my class building pasta cars during it. By 6th grade I just had problems getting to school because of a number of issues. I ended up graduating high school after 2 1/2 years and then only going 3 hours a day and it was basically self learning.

the key to success is encouraging their minds and making them self motivated.

 

[mefordis]

I swear everyone on the dis has at least one gifted child!

Not me. My children are pretty average! My 7 yr old is pretty smart -- reads at the highest level in her class and gets all her homework without my help. She's still average.

 

[Nicolepa]

However, most people don't define "truly gifted" as the top 5 percent. They define it as the top half of a half of a percent. The outliers. The kids who teach themselves to read at age two and can multiply by three. And there's very few of THOSE kids around.

Frankly the whole "I've only ever met one kid who was truly gifted" statement makes me grumpy. Too often it's a way of saying that these are the only kids who need help. But lots of other kids who aren't freakishly smart also need gifted programs. They need to be around other smart kids, learning more in depth and at a faster pace. They need less drill and more content.

One of my 3 children is freakishly smart. She was reading chapter books by 3 learning multiplication/division by 4 and has a photographic memory. She has been in a full time gifted program since 1st grade. She tested in the top 1 % for reading & math on the IOWA and the COGAT.

What I love about the gifted program is she is no longer the oddball. Everyone in her class is average (compared to everyone else). Some are better at math, some are better a reading. In a regular classroom they would all be the oddballs. The other thing I like is that they are pretty much a contained classroom. So she has pretty much the same kids in her class every year. So they are all very close, there is no figuring out who fits in where at the beginning of each year.

 

[allyphoe]

What does YOUR school district do for these kids?

90 minutes a week of pull-out enrichment. The district recently had an operational audit, the results of which basically said "the gifted pull-out has absolutely no educational value." DD says it's boring.

If he has all this potential, shouldn't the local school district get going on helping him achieve higher goals??

In my experience, school districts here have relatively little interest in helping anyone achieve a goal other than "passes the standardized testing used for NCLB." Your school district may vary!

tell me what you did to help them reach out and achieve higher goals, and not be so 'bored'???

I'm not sure what "higher goals" you want your DS to achieve. I personally find it to be difficult to enrich at home without "working ahead," and working ahead exacerbates boredom at school. For me, I want my DD to learn to learn, and to be relatively happy.

My DD is currently in 3rd, having skipped 2nd at her own request. She's a very good 3rd grader, and would not have been a happy 2nd grader. But it has been a hard transition year in many respects, and the things that have been issues were not necessarily things I'd anticipated. She still complains about being bored from time to time, although she has a really great teacher who lets her work ahead or read quietly at times.

And honestly, a grade skip doesn't necessarily solve the problems. For some kids, one skip will be all they ever need, and it does solve most of the problems once the transition period (which I've heard anecdotally is usually one really bad year) is over. For some kids, a skip starts you off at the right point (or a less-wrong point), but you've still got depth and pacing issues. Or asynchronous development issues.

If private school is within your budget, and is otherwise a fit for your family, that can be a good solution. It would be the solution we'd have used, if not for an insurmountable religious mismatch with the school that was the best academic fit.

Some people homeschool, and that can be a good solution. It would not be the solution we'd use if there were any other alternatives, because DD learns better from a non-family teacher than she does from me. She and I are too alike, and butt heads.

Some people tell their kids to suck it up and deal until they get old enough for honors / advanced / AP classes. In our district, that starts in 6th grade. It's a fine line to walk, balancing the need for a kid who cares little enough about school (or enough about not getting in trouble) that they aren't disruptive, with the need for that kid to apply herself once she's eligible for the more-challenging classes. I was good at being that kid, but I flunked a fair number of assignments and mostly got Bs, because I didn't care.

 

[IDoDis]

DD (14) has been in the gifted program since 2nd grade. In my state, the students are first screened by the GT teacher. If they get a certain score on that, a referral process is started for formal testing by a certified evaluation specialist. DD's testing took 5 hours and was done on a Saturday all 1:1 with the eval specialist. There is a difference between Gifted Assessment and Academic Testing (sometimes called proficiency or standardized testing). Academic testing will determine where your child is academically, and is not an indicator of giftedness. Gifted Assessment here is a combination of Academic testing and I.Q. testing. Students must have an overall IQ of 130 to get into the gifted program.

Once DD qualified, an IEP meeting was held a couple weeks later where an IEP (individualized education plan) was set up. This is the same process that students go through if they have a learning disability. The gifted program in NM falls under the special ed umbrella, and is therefore funded as such. There are no federal funds for gifted programs. That's why many states don't have true gifted programs. They are called that, but are actually programs for advanced students.

As far as the program itself, I felt it was more of a social club than anything else. DD missed her reading block in elem. school to go to the GT class each day. Good thing she was an excellent reader -- not all GT kids are which put some at a big disadvantage because they missed a core subject to attend the class.

In middle school, DD's GT class was language arts. The class was small (8-12 students).

Now that she's in high school, she is supposed to have one gifted class per semester, but she wasn't offered one this first semester because of a scheduling issue, so the GT teacher comes in her class once in a while to check on how she's doing. Next semester, her Health class will be her one gifted class where there will be approx 6 students.

I haven't seen much benefit aside from the social issues, meaning that DD hung out with the smart kids who stayed out of trouble. Not nerds by any means, either.

At home she's always done creative projects. She's also a figure skater, so that takes up most of her time.

 

[golfgal]

Our school district has a GT program, but it doesn't amount to much really. My kids stayed busy with Math team activities and Math/Science competitions. Destination Imagination is another good activity. It really teaches teamwork and leadership skills as well as creativity.

Of course, I have to admit I have a "gifted" child. Our district allows the really advanced students to take Algebra a year early and keep advancing each year (even going to the High school for classes in 8th grade). My DD did that and everything was great until she got to Calculus this year (11th) grade. She's making a 100 average, but next year there's no other Math to take and she has to RE-take the same class. Her schedule doesn't allow for her to go take a college class somewhere. I wish we had thought ahead enough when we decided to go this route! So whatever you do for your DS, think ahead to the long term consequences!

My daughter was a reader, so when she finished assignments early she was allowed to keep busy doing that and stay out of mischief. Your DS is still very young, I hope you find something for him. The schools are really more interested in supporting the struggling kids and we parents of the bright ones have to be proactive to meet their needs. BTDT

That is too bad they don't have another option for her math. Is her Calculus an AP class? Could she take an online college math class and have it count for her high school math class-that way she can fit it into her schedule. We are lucky that we have a full compliment of AP classes AND have duel enrollment where high school junior and senior can take college level classes that double count for high school and college credit. Many of the classes are taught right at the high school or the kids have the option of taking the classes on a college campus. Our district just published in it's news letter that last year kids from our district saved 1.7 MILLION dollars in college credits with this program.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Our school district has a GT program, but it doesn't amount to much really. My kids stayed busy with Math team activities and Math/Science competitions. Destination Imagination is another good activity. It really teaches teamwork and leadership skills as well as creativity.

Of course, I have to admit I have a "gifted" child. Our district allows the really advanced students to take Algebra a year early and keep advancing each year (even going to the High school for classes in 8th grade). My DD did that and everything was great until she got to Calculus this year (11th) grade. She's making a 100 average, but next year there's no other Math to take and she has to RE-take the same class. Her schedule doesn't allow for her to go take a college class somewhere. I wish we had thought ahead enough when we decided to go this route! So whatever you do for your DS, think ahead to the long term consequences!

Do they have have Statistics? Or did she already take that? I am sure she did.

They do warn us in the middle school course book that this is a problem if your child starts with Algebra 1 in 6th grade. However we do have extensive Community Colleges here so getting duel enrollment is something that is easier to do. When I lived in DFW, I noticed the lack of CC for kids. There were none in Flower Mound which is why they had extensive AP classes. Which was good for my oldest, she took a ton of history.

You know it will be all good in the end. I bet she is smoking the ACT/SAT math section.

 

[Tinijocaro]

OK-i'm just gonna say it. Why is it that whenever a gifted thread appears, people have to come on and let you know that your child is probably not "truly gifted", just smart. What purpose could that possibly serve except to try to shoot someone down a peg.

The fact is, it shouldn't matter if a child is "truly gifted". Kids who are above the average kid and sit around waiting for other to get the material need to be challenged. I'm a teacher and I of course have kids who struggle (I give them extra help) kids who are right on target and doing just fine with the material, and kids who are ahead of the others-of course they need to be challenged and I do that by letting them move ahead of the others, giving them more advanced stuff.

Special services should not be provided just to kids on the low end of the spectrum. As someone else said, gifted has a wide range-some kids are really smart, and some kids are exceptionally gifted. These kids need special attention to reach their full potential. Let's stop splitting hairs and trying to shoot one another down for the crime of saying their child is gifted.

 

[Hannathy]

Of course, I have to admit I have a "gifted" child. Our district allows the really advanced students to take Algebra a year early and keep advancing each year (even going to the High school for classes in 8th grade). My DD did that and everything was great until she got to Calculus this year (11th) grade. She's making a 100 average, but next year there's no other Math to take and she has to RE-take the same class. Her schedule doesn't allow for her to go take a college class somewhere. I wish we had thought ahead enough when we decided to go this route! So whatever you do for your DS, think ahead to the long term consequences!

Although it isn't ideal make sure you are looking outside the normal high school hours for courses. When my DD was a senior she took a Sophomore English lit course at the University and to fit it in with her other stuff she took it outside normal hours, her class didn't start till 3 something and went til 5.

 

[Let'sGoFlyAKite]

OK-i'm just gonna say it. Why is it that whenever a gifted thread appears, people have to come on and let you know that your child is probably not "truly gifted", just smart. What purpose could that possibly serve except to try to shoot someone down a peg.

The fact is, it shouldn't matter if a child is "truly gifted". Kids who are above the average kid and sit around waiting for other to get the material need to be challenged. I'm a teacher and I of course have kids who struggle (I give them extra help) kids who are right on target and doing just fine with the material, and kids who are ahead of the others-of course they need to be challenged and I do that by letting them move ahead of the others, giving them more advanced stuff.

Special services should not be provided just to kids on the low end of the spectrum. As someone else said, gifted has a wide range-some kids are really smart, and some kids are exceptionally gifted. These kids need special attention to reach their full potential. Let's stop splitting hairs and trying to shoot one another down for the crime of saying their child is gifted.

Hey, Thanks, but I didnt take it that way. Maybe he's 'truly gifted" maybe not. I dont know. He's very bright, bored and not at all challenged. He may level out as he gets in higher grades, but right now, the teacher tells me he should be in the gifted program (what ever that is, since the school seems to have NO gfted program...) So who am I to argue when someone tells me my kid's a genius ....lol

 

[Magpie]

Hey, Thanks, but I didnt take it that way. Maybe he's 'truly gifted" maybe not. I dont know. He's very bright, bored and not at all challenged. He may level out as he gets in higher grades, but right now, the teacher tells me he should be in the gifted program (what ever that is, since the school seems to have NO gfted program...) So who am I to argue when someone tells me my kid's a genius ....lol

Since you'll be talking to your son about this eventually...

I always tell my kids that genius is what you DO, not what you ARE.

"Gifted" sure... you were gifted with a brain that works really well. However, what you do with it is up to you. You can use your gifts, or you can stick them in the closet and let dust gather on them.

I tell them that their intelligence is nothing to be proud of - they didn't to anything to earn it. So it makes no more sense to be proud of that, than to be proud of being tall, or having naturally brown hair, or any other thing like that.

But if you want to be a genius, then you've got to put the work into it. You've got to do something extraordinary, and that's going to take a lot of hard work. And you know what? Maybe you'll decide it's not worth the effort, and that's okay, too. No one's obliged to use all their gifts. It's a gift, not a lifetime of indentured servitude.

Also... boredom? I tell my kids if they're bored, then they're just not being creative enough about finding ways to entertain themselves. My daughter (99.98th percentile, started reading at age 2, gifted as all get out) is often bored even in gifted classes. Do you know what she does? She writes poetry in class. Or she reads novels. Me, I used to draw.

I'm not saying that you should not advocate for your child, and try to get him into gifted programming. Far from it! But be careful with the "he's bored" statement. Life is often boring. Your child needs to know that no one else is responsible for entertaining him. Boredom is something he has to learn to deal with himself.

Besides, it really seems to irritate teachers when you say, "My child is bored in your class." (I can't imagine why... )

 

[honugirl]

I'll second the life is sometimes boring thing and school can be boring, even in college! I had no idea I had any kind of talent in chemistry. None whatsoever. In fact, I'd always shied away from it 'cause I didn't think I'd like it. Fast forward a few years and a few life experiences, I decided to go back to school. I figured I'd start with the nursing program since I want to be in some sort of medical related field. One of the classes I needed to take was an entry level chem class. I am so bored in there! But it still doesn't give me a right to act up or be disruptive. When I'm bored, I throw my energy into making sure my lab partner understands what's going on and reading higher level chem books to satisfy my desire for more intensive stuff. In fact one day I was talking to the prof and I told him I was bored in class and his response was, "you should be!" Wasn't really expecting that! Then he told me to take another class so I'd be in his more advanced class next fall.

I kind of look at the boredom in class as a good thing because it pushed me towards wanting to get a degree in biochem because when my brain zoned out in class, it was zoning out towards higher level chemistry and it created a strong desire to go farther in that field. Fortunately, I have an amazing prof who encourages me and has been nurturing my talent all quarter.

I guess my point of all that is, we all need to learn how to deal with the boredom. Sometimes you don't have a choice and you have to deal with doing lower level courses or subjects you aren't interested in (next quarter I have 2 humanities courses and I'm really not fond of that stuff, but to get my degree I have to take it). And even though the class was boring, it taught me the basics that will put me that much farther ahead in the coming quarters.

I will admit, I was more advanced in school as a kid, but we didn't have a GT program, so I just had to learn to deal with my boredom without acting out. Must be where I learned the tutoring route 'cause in our school, the advanced readers got to tutor the less advanced readers... hmmm.

 

[allyphoe]

Life is often boring. Your child needs to know that no one else is responsible for entertaining him.

I don't necessarily disagree with your post - there's plenty of "suck it up, buttercup" in our house. But I've also got a lot of sympathy for the other side of that argument. I don't send my kid to school to be entertained; I send her to be educated. And I think it's not unreasonable to expect the school to educate her, rather than merely warehousing her.

If you took a truly average kid, and put her in a room with 20 kids who were mildly mentally ********, and taught that classroom material the average kid already knew, at a pace that let the other kids master it, that average kid would probably be bored. I suspect that the average kid's parents wouldn't appreciate being told "Life is boring. Your kid is welcome to read quietly." And I suspect that most people would agree that the average kid didn't have an appropriate classroom placement.

It's not an issue for most gifted kids. There's a big subset of gifted-identified kids who are "optimally gifted" - smart enough to do well in school, but not so smart they're hopelessly bored. At the other end of the spectrum, there's a big subset of borderline-functioning kids who can succeed in a mainstreamed classroom. But at either end, there are going to be some kids who can't learn appropriately in a class geared towards average kids, and those cutoffs are not necessarily where people who haven't had kids in that situation would guess. (Nor are numbers necessarily useful in identifying which kids will do well mainstreamed and which won't - there are a lot of characteristics other than IQ that come into play, and IQ is not a clearcut thing to measure.)

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...I always tell my kids that genius is what you DO, not what you ARE...

Very wise comment.

Schools on Long Island and in NJ offer some pretty amazing GT programs, but our oldest son asked out of them a few years ago and we agreed. First, they piled on additional work. Second, the kids in the program were not the type that he naturally gravitated toward. Finally, he wanted to spend more time with his music than the GT schedule allowed.

Our son continues to reach his potential, even in regular classes. We do not consider our children gifted, just gifts.

 

[bethy]

I can tell from your post that he's your first - BTDT. All of my kids have tested into the GT program starting in 3rd grade, and it's just a pull out program, with fun activities. I also don't think any of mine are truly gifted - just bright (althoug all straight A students). A truly gifted kid is doing algebra in the 2nd grade (and I only know one or two IRL who I could consider truly gifted).

Only my oldest had the problem of being bored and acting out - she had to learn that sometimes school would be boring, suck it up, and behave. Fortunately, the next 2 had better personalities. Once 5th grade hits, the children seem to have more similar academic abilities, and then in middle school and high school, there are vector/honors classes, and at least here, they are much more challenging than the regular (dd14 decided to take regular World History instead of honors, her first non-honors class, and she is amazed at how easy it is - this will be her last non-honors class).

So, find a private school that meets your needs, find an outside program that will challenge him, or be lazy, and just weigh it out, or beat your head against a door and try to change things in your public school (that doesn't have the funding for a true GT program).

This. Especially the last part. I've BTDT. Also, unless a child is truly at the genius level I think it can be hard to truly tell where they stand in K through 2nd grade or so. Because they all come in to school with different backgrounds and different levels of maturity. They focus on different areas of learning at different times and are still very individualistic. Also the demographics vary greatly from school to school. By third and fourth grade things start to even out and they've learned how to operate within the school environment, etc. And things get faster paced.

GL with your journey!

 

[mjkacmom]

This. Especially the last part. I've BTDT. Also, unless a child is truly at the genius level I think it can be hard to truly tell where they stand in K through 2nd grade or so. Because they all come in to school with different backgrounds and different levels of maturity. They focus on different areas of learning at different times and are still very individualistic. Also the demographics vary greatly from school to school. By third and fourth grade things start to even out and they've learned how to operate within the school environment, etc. And things get faster paced.

GL with your journey!

I find this is true as well. Heck, I don't think any of my kids got an answer wrong until at least the 3rd grade, and they and all of their friends got straight A's (and tested in the 99th % on standardized testing). Our curriculum has changed a lot over the years, because it has been found that "most" kids can learn to read in kindergarten. However, some kids aren't ready yet. Our school doesn't even test for GT until 4th grade for this reason.

 

[Boston Tea Party]

I always tell my kids that genius is what you DO, not what you ARE.

"Gifted" sure... you were gifted with a brain that works really well. However, what you do with it is up to you. You can use your gifts, or you can stick them in the closet and let dust gather on them.

I tell them that their intelligence is nothing to be proud of - they didn't to anything to earn it. So it makes no more sense to be proud of that, than to be proud of being tall, or having naturally brown hair, or any other thing like that.

But if you want to be a genius, then you've got to put the work into it. You've got to do something extraordinary, and that's going to take a lot of hard work. And you know what? Maybe you'll decide it's not worth the effort, and that's okay, too. No one's obliged to use all their gifts. It's a gift, not a lifetime of indentured servitude.

May I have your permission to quote this verbatim in the morning? LOVE IT!



"Boredom is failure to take responsibility for your own entertainment." <-- My dad.

 

[kbeverina]

I bet she is smoking the ACT/SAT math section.

Yes! I was going to make the same point. I think she did the right thing. My son scored significantly better on his last SAT, all in the more advanced math sections. The math class he took between the two tests made all the difference.

The higher PSAT/SAT/ACT scores don't just translate to better schools, but also merit money, in-state tuition at out-of-state schools, etc. So don't second-guess yourself, it will work out.

 

[WDWMom]

In our district we actually have a class of 4th and a class of 5th graders who are considered "gifted". You qualify on test scores from 3rd grade. We have 5 elementary schools but only one school has the class so they need to change schools if they want to be in the class. Once you are in, you can stay in if you want, but you can't qualify for 5th if you were in for 4th. After 5th grade there is only a higher math class through middle school. 6th grade takes 7th grade math, 7th takes 8th grade, 8th takes 9th grade math. So really they are just skipping 6th grade math.

I have known several students who have been in the GT class but go on to not do well later. For many students their brains just develope earlier that others but their bodies catch up to the brain in about 6-7th grade. DD was one point away from making it into GT program and her 3rd grade teacher said he would write her a recommendation to get her in. We passed. She is bright and could be a 4.0 student, but she doesn't want to be and knew that in elementary school. She is content with getting mostly A's and some B's without trying. Bugs the crap out of me, but DH was the same way. Now that she is in college she is still the same way. Why study if I can get a high B or low A. I think pushing her earlier would have made her even try less.

One girl in DD's grade that was in the GT class, could barely pass High school math. Was always in the lower math classes. I can't understand how she would have been considered GT in elementary. She even failed math twice in college. Her mom is a friend and I've yet to hear if she has passed math yet (she's a sophmore)

 

[koolaidmoms]

I have a child who is gifted and one who is average. I treat them both the same at home and do enrichment where they are in their studies. The school does next to nothing because I feel they just don't know what to do with DS (7) - 2nd grade.

He is working from their 6th grade math book. During school he sits and does the regular schoolwork - learning to tell time (BTDT at 4) but he sits and does his work. Most of the time he is very good about it but once in while he lets loose when he can't take it anymore.

The school sends him home with the 6th grade workbook for homework for me to teach him at home. Same for reading, science and SS. Sometimes I wonder why I send him to school but I feel he needs to the social skills (he is an Aspie) so he can't skip grades due to the lack of social skills.

How I wish we had a G/T program.