Saratoga Springs Goes on Sale

[bicker]

The question raised earlier still remains the most interesting to me: Where will SSR owners stay (other than SSR) after 2042? I'm thinking that the way the contracts are written, the availability to exchange into other DVC resorts isn't guaranteed. I don't meant to say it is an option for DVC to just either offer the exchanges or not, but rather that they're only obligated to offer the exchanges if such resorts are currently in operation, so that if any resort leaves the system (like in 2042) then that option simply ceases to be offered, no harm no foul.

The logistical issue here is that eventually these building will wear out, and DVC will either have to assess the membership to build new buildings (ouch!) or ... something ... The most logical approach would be to end the resort at a point in time when DVD has full control (a la 2042) and then sell new with a new building. It isn't clear that these buildings will wear out by 2042, but some of the OKW buildings might be getting close to that at that time, I suspect. Indeed, I bet some of the HH and VB buildings will as well, since they're both subject to much harsher weather. I would be less inclined to buy a 50 year timeshare in a 40-50 year old building!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by bicker
The question raised earlier still remains the most interesting to me: Where will SSR owners stay (other than SSR) after 2042? I'm thinking that the way the contracts are written, the availability to exchange into other DVC resorts isn't guaranteed. I don't meant to say it is an option for DVC to just either offer the exchanges or not, but rather that they're only obligated to offer the exchanges if such resorts are currently in operation, so that if any resort leaves the system (like in 2042) then that option simply ceases to be offered, no harm no foul.

The logistical issue here is that eventually these building will wear out, and DVC will either have to assess the membership to build new buildings (ouch!) or ... something ... The most logical approach would be to end the resort at a point in time when DVD has full control (a la 2042) and then sell new with a new building. It isn't clear that these buildings will wear out by 2042, but some of the OKW buildings might be getting close to that at that time, I suspect. Indeed, I bet some of the HH and VB buildings will as well, since they're both subject to much harsher weather. I would be less inclined to buy a 50 year timeshare in a 40-50 year old building!

They would create the same problem in reverse. If they extend, they will do so to get them all on the same page. Under the present situation it'd be just like when OKW was the only resort. The SSR owners would lose any trading options the last 12 years.

Why not???? Can't they just buy them back, rewrite them and then sell them?

(Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand- real estate, contracts and things of that matter are beyond me, just trying to figure it out.)

Because of the legal registration with the state and the deeding. If they extend, the most logical thing would be to just have a vote of the membership and extend everyone. I'm not sure how this fits legally as well but it they do it this way but give owners a chance to opt out, I suspect it would fly. Who in their right mind would say no unless they're worried about the dues.

 

[BEACHCLUBVILLAS]

I am not convinced that "leaving" your children a DVC contract is necessarily a great idea. It depends if they can afford the maintenance fees. That is a decision we have all been able to decide for ourselves. Leaving it to our children, we leave them with a big bill. We don't know what the maintenance fees will be 30 years from now. Therefore, I look at the extra 12 years more in terms of can I use it for an additional 12 years. My children will be able to use my points and vacation with us during the time I am here. Also, unless the contracts to the other resorts are extended then your DVC choices are seriously diminished. So, the overall value of those last 12 years are diminished as well. Who knows what Disney itself will look like in those last 12 years.

SS is in the same situation as OKW. Beautiful but secluded resort. BCV and BWV's proximity to EPCOT and MGM make it an ideal location. If I wanted to buy into DVC and the only resort available on site is SS, then its great that it comes with an additional 12 years but that is not the deciding factor for me. One poster calculated a possible option to purchase the additional 12 years for $20+ per point. Never would I be willing to pay that much money for 12 years that starts 39 years from now. Now, if we are talking about a monorail resort and the price is $89 point, then I seriously need to consider an add on.

 

[ArnyVee]

Well, even if my daughter will not be able to afford the maintenance fees, at least she can sell off the DVC contract and make some money back....that is, if Disney's ROFR is still doin' what it does best.

 

[DisneyHumbug]

The ideal thing would be to leave the kids the DVC contracts and a nice little bank account to pay all those maintenance fees!

 

[Pinnie]

I dunno, Disneyhumbug, I am thinking I want to SPEND all mine before I go and just leave enough to bury me.

pin

 

[lurontravel]

Even if DVC does not extend existing contracts, what is to say that DVC will not allow any trades from SSR into the old ones after 2042? Just b/c WE don't own them anymore doesn't mean that DVC won't own them any longer. They retain some ownership in them now, and our share of ownership reverts back to them. They could keep on allowing the SSR people to trade, and then just rent out the other rooms for cash, right?
Anyone else think like this?

 

[Geoff_M]

As it stands now, complete ownership of the DVC resorts (SSR possibily exculded) will revert back to WDW Co and the building would be then outside of the "club". It wouldn't make sense to extend that termination date, unless there was still the ability to continue DVC timeshare ownerships in the property. I think it's safe to say that, unless the termination dates are pushed back, all of the current DVC room inventory will go "poof" in 2042. If that happens, SSR will only have the options to use SSR or other future DVC properties that come after it.

 

[vernon]

lurontravel said

They could keep on allowing the SSR people to trade, and then just rent out the other rooms for cash, right?

It's possible they could, but based upon the rates for the "Disney Collection" I wouldn't bank on a 1 for 1 on points cost. I would expect they would look for something like twice the points for a similar unit. Disney will want a premium for taking on the associated risk. IMHO OKW would be the first up for refurb, so you would hear all sorts of justification like "prime location" of Epcot resorts etc but the reality is the different departments would be looking to maximise their profit on the deal so expect to get burned.

 

[bicker]

I think we can rest assured that there will be NO extension without a new buy-in. They're not going to give us any extra 12 years without getting a good bit of new principal.

 

[childsplay]

If the ending date of SSR is really going to be 2054, then my guess is, what we are seeing is the beginnings of DVC II. SSR will be followd by Eagle Pines, which would start selling with about 45 use years left followed by some type of resort with a big "hook"(monorail?) at about 40 years left (like BCV with SAB and Epcot).
I just don't believe they are going to change the ending date and leave SSR sitting out there by itself. A new ending date signals a new beginning to me.

 

[Namdnas]

I find it odd that people are asking what they'll do for resorts after 2042 if they're SSR owners.

Look at it this way, we're a little better than 10 years into DVC and there are 6 resorts. It stands to reason that if there exist the chance for revenue, Disney will build more DVC properties. (If you build it, they will come). So, as the new resorts are built, they'll likely fall into some time tier (DVC I, DVC II, DVC III) which might be say, 10 years to match end dates. This would likely follow as Disney builds out the Kingdom into new parks, and therefore needs more lodging. Also, they have the opportunity to make 'Villas at' for each new resort they build.

So, if the economy were to keep increasing, we might see 8 totally new DVC properties over the next 30 years without stretching it. These would have their own end dates to align with whatever DVC incantation they fall into.
As older DVC properties end their time, some people will bow out, and others will buy overlap points which end in the next DVC.

There should be more theme parks, more DVC properties and more resorts to choose from the future, not less. Disney is in the enviable position of having loads of land, cash and willing customers.

That's my $0.02.

PS My BCV contract ends in 2042, like everyone elses. That's more than enough time for me to make my young daughters into addicts, who'll just as likely shell out for DVC for their families when they're older. More revenue for DVC, happy business unit = more units, more time, etc...

 

[littlestar]

I don't remember who posted about the buildings wearing out, but I still think the Contemporary looks good. How old is it? Built in '71 or '72? That's over 30 years old!

I think Disney will keep up with all the DVCs as they age. I don't know the "life" expectancy on buildings, but DVC was attractive to us because it had an ending date. The idea of owning a traditional timeshare forever would scare me too much I think.

I, too, wonder about Saratoga having a new ending date. Only being able to stay at Saratoga after year 2042 would be a turn-off to me. I would rather pay a nightly rate at a prime Disney hotel close to the parks than be stuck with just one option - staying at Saratoga for the last 12 years. So, I guess I don't see the attraction on the extra 12 years for Saratoga. I would think Disney would either build more DVCs or extend the ones they already have to make this new end date attractive (if the rumor is true on the new end date).

 

[RweTHEREyet]

Just thought I would mention that I talked to my Guide today. He stated that none of it was rumor anymore, points will definitely be $89 for Saratoga and he said they will go on sale August 3. My Guide is Marc Turner, and he has been with DVC since Day 1, I believe, and has never told me anything incorrect, so I trust this to be fact.

I asked what he thought about Saratoga and he said it will be first class, parking in front your villa, like OKW, etc. etc. He seemd really excited about it, moreso than I remember him being about BCV.

Just thought I would share.

 

[ncligs]

Originally posted by RweTHEREyet
My Guide is Marc Turner, and he has been with DVC since Day 1, I believe, and has never told me anything incorrect, so I trust this to be fact.

Marc is our guide also and has always been very informative and right on the money on his info.

 

[bicker]

Originally posted by littlestar
I still think the Contemporary looks good. How old is it? Built in '71 or '72? That's over 30 years old!

And there aren't any kitchens in the rooms. Regardless, nothing lasts forever.

I think Disney will keep up with all the DVCs as they age.

No. Disney won't cover the cost of keeping up those buildings, and yet have them remain timeshares. Rather, they'll assess the membership or require new principal as part of a renewal.

 

[roelongo]

All of these posts got me thinking, what if this is a separate entity all together. What I mean is what if the points we have can't be used at SSR and their points can't be used at any of the DVC resorts? Think about it, OKW was the original and only resort for a number of years, they could turn around and start a whole new phase.

 

[littlestar]

Bicker,

So far from what I've seen, Disney seems to keep up with all their properties. They usually look pretty good is what I was trying to say. I know Disney doesn't cover the maintenance on the DVCs (our dues are supposed to). Even Old Key West being the oldest DVC looks pretty great I think.

Now, what will happen to our dues in 30 years, I don't know. But, surely they reserve so much each year for roof replacement, equipment replacement, and general maintenance on the DVC buildings out of our dues. I'm sure it just doesn't come out in one lump sum at year 25 for a roof replacement? I hope not! The dues were one of the things that almost made us say no to joining DVC.

By the way, congratulations on maintaining that 100 pound weight loss. That is inspiring (I'm trying to lose 10 pounds and it's hard to do).

 

[vernon]

Littlestar, as we, the members, will be paying for the upkeep and replacement items I feel sure that Disney will make sure they inherit the resorts in a fine state of repair. that doesn't mean however that there will be nothing that requires updating. The budgeting does mean they allow for roof replacements etc at the appropriate times ( actually I think their budget gives them quite a lot of leeway).
The only potential problem would be as DVC gets close to 2042 and a large and unexpected cost arose. Would the members be prepared to pay out in dues an "emergency payment" with only a couple of years left on their ownership. I think there would be legal wrangles if that were the case. I think DVD will make sure they have a reasonable reserve to cover that eventuality so that Disney will take over the property in a condition that will require a minimal amount of major repairs, although I'm certain there will be a fair amount of updating that would go on. I would expect Disney to schedule the updating to run reasonably close to the rate at which they would sell the then DVC III .

 

[married@wdw]

Originally posted by RweTHEREyet
Just thought I would mention that I talked to my Guide today. He stated that none of it was rumor anymore, points will definitely be $89 for Saratoga and he said they will go on sale August 3. My Guide is Marc Turner, and he has been with DVC since Day 1, I believe, and has never told me anything incorrect, so I trust this to be fact.

I asked what he thought about Saratoga and he said it will be first class, parking in front your villa, like OKW, etc. etc. He seemd really excited about it, moreso than I remember him being about BCV.

Just thought I would share.

Talked to my guide today, too, and his reaction was the same. He said he saw the tour rooms yesterday and was really surprised by how nice they are. Smaller -- the size of BCV -- but by far the nicest DVC Disney has done yet. The first time he's been impressed (since he expects the best from Disney).

He also said $89/point, 50-year contract, August 3rd is the date for sure. He also said there will probably be early purchase incentives. And for those on waitlists for other resorts (we wanted to add on at Old Key West, but are now rethinking this) he said there will probably be two prices, at least until BWV, BCV and Vero are really totally sold out.

So we're just gonna wait and see what happens. We were going to add-on 50 points at OKW on the waitlist (we get a CM discount so it's not worth it to go through the resale market) but now we might do Saratoga instead. Depending on the incentives, we might actually be able to get it cheaper (well, get more points for he same price).