sales tactics

[3DisneyNUTS]

Originally posted by Lisa P.
...if they have waived the limit for one customer and not the other it is very non Disney like.

Isn't it just what businesses do? Disney is a business. They give special discount codes to some customers and not others (home state, conventions, group rates, etc.). They offer limited-time-only offers (pay for 5 nights, get 2 free, etc.).

Is it so different from seeing a TV ad for a brand new car... discounted if you buy in the next 48 hours only? That's a large purchase too and some folks may be able to haggle the discount later without having put down a deposit but most would not. Realistically, it would depend on a lot of things... is the salesperson willing to take a cut in their commission... does the parent company allow them to extend a special deal... does the salesperson know the policy... has the managing supervisor had his second cup of coffee yet?

Is that "not fair" or is it just business? For them to operate differently because they are "Disney" would deny the fact that they are a business and need to behave as such. Otherwise, you would not have a savvy manager to maintain your resorts into the future.

Yeah but you see if they waive it for one who asks for it why not do the same for the other customer. Plus it leaves the one who was not given the discount unhappy. Good business practices should leave both cutomer and company happy. Now of course when and if I refer people to buy from DVC I will have to warn them and make sure they know of this practice. Which what kind of foot does it start everything off on? It leaves the potential customers I refer on guard immediately. They enter the whole experience not trusting DVC. I did not approach my guide that way. I wanted Disney service not car salesman lets make a deal service.

 

[anniet]

Originally posted by 3DisneyNUTS
Yeah but you see if they waive it for one who asks for it why not do the same for the other customer. Plus it leaves the one who was not given the discount unhappy. Good business practices should leave both cutomer and company happy. Now of course when and if I refer people to buy from DVC I will have to warn them and make sure they know of this practice. Which what kind of foot does it start everything off on? It leaves the potential customers I refer on guard immediately. They enter the whole experience not trusting DVC. I did not approach my guide that way. I wanted Disney service not car salesman lets make a deal service.

I would not warn them of this practice...the discount may not be offered at all, and what kind of foot does that start everything off on?

 

[megrod74]

3DisneyNuts,
As another honest person, I sympathize with you. (you mean you can use expired coupons??)But I hate to say this: I think you are being naive. As Lisa P. stated, Disney is a business. It probably isn't "fair" but it doesn't need to be. It's capitalism. It's SALES. The car reference is a good one. When you go to a car dealer, the MFRP is a starting price. It is expected that you will haggle, and if you don't you don't know how to play the game. If you're not into this (like I'm not) then you buy your car at CarMax. Not that you can haggle over the DVC price, but my guess is that when you called your guide after you got home and were honest with him, he could probably tell that you were going to buy whether the discount was extended or not. Therefore he didn't work that hard for you. He probably didn't even ask a supervisor; why should he when he'll get a higher commission. There are all these nuances to sales that I will never understand, but that my DH does, thank goodness.
I agree with you that he could have been more up front and informative and worked harder for your loyalty. I'm sure he didn't realize that you would have access to all these other DVC members to ask, and that was his mistake. But the idea isn't for him to be fair, it's for him to make Disney and himself money. It's all about the $$, unfortunately. They only way to make it up to him is to not refer him or give his name to others as a guide to avoid.
Why should one person get a bunch of $ off at the grocery store just because they clipped coupons? Why not just use the lower price? Because they know not everyone will use coupons, and they'll make more money. Do you think that's fair? or just accepted business practice?
I'm really am sorry you didn't get your discount, but I hope you have many wonderful vacations with DVC.

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by 3DisneyNUTS
Yeah but you see if they waive it for one who asks for it why not do the same for the other customer. Plus it leaves the one who was not given the discount unhappy.

It seems to me that you are characterizing this situation as a black and white issue rather than seeing the shades of gray that likely exist.

For example, how do we know that the Guides who broke the rules to give the discounts after the time limit had expired were following accepted DVC practices?

Perhaps your Guide simply didn't go high enough in the chain of command to find out that it would be OK to reinstate the discount. It sounds like you were pretty accepting of the fact that the discount was lost. The Guide may have been just as unaware as you were that he could get approval to give you the discount.

Perhaps your Guide was just being a jerk and didn't want to give you the discount. Maybe he knew you were going to buy either way, and applying the discount would eat into his commission to some degree.

Perhaps DVC's policies changed before / after your transaction.

My point is, I think it's a mistake to paint all of "Disney" with a brush just because there appears to be some inconsistency in this policy. How many different variations of "official policies" have been posted on these boards regarding issues such as room occupancy, use of refillable mugs or even acceptable resort smoking areas? Every time one of these topics is raised, there are people piping in to say "well, the CM *I* spoke to said ...."

By the same token, if you happen to experience a Cast Member that treats you rudely at one of the theme parks, do you immediately conclude that Disney now condones such behavior? Of course not.

Cast Members and Guides are all human. And, being human, we can't always automatically expect them to act in a manner consistent with the "letter of the law" as Disney has defined it.

If, as you said, you come out of this experience warning people to do their homework and push for the best deal possible from DVC...GREAT!!! No objections here.

I've read posts from people who did some arm twisting and got extra pins or lithos from their Guide for buying points. Did I do that? No.

Would I have liked some free pins when I purchased? Sure!

Do I hold DVC or Disney responsible for the fact that I didn't get any free pins? Of course not. It's my fault for not asking in the first place.

If this entire experience has soured you on "Disney" or DVC, then I hope you can find some way to overcome it. Personally, I haven't seen anything in this thread that really surprises me.

 

[bobbiwoz]

We've only been to 1 timeshare presentation, and we spent a 3 night weekend at Hilton Grand Vacation resort in Orlando. It was wonderful. We were true babes in the woods, at the end of the presentation, I looked at the sales person and said that there was no way that we would buy something that cost so much on the spot. Yes, they brought someone else in, but we weren't kidding. We had no idea that it was a then or nothing deal. You had 3 days.

We bought DVC based on the video, talking over the phone with Michele our guide and seeing the outside of the VWL.

I wish you peace of mind and hope you find it.

Bobbi

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by lisareniff
As you can tell, Dean, I do not really appreciate the art of the deal. Infact, I usually proceed the word salesman with slimy.

In general I'd agree. You may never want to buy a car though, someone else will always get a better deal. But this is DVC and not the saleperson themselves.

The one problem I have with DVC is they they are consistently inconsistent. They should stick to the rules period like the occupancy limits, etc. I'm betting the OP could have gotten the deal if they'd pushed enough.

 

[rinkwide]

You have a valid arguement.

I would recommend escalating this matter by going above each person as necessary until you find someone who can resolve it.

When I've used this strategy in the past I've often end up speaking with someone very high in the company who didn't have the time to waste on such a trivial issue. Invariably, they'd tell someone below them to give in and make the problem go away.

This was learned from my days in sales management. I'd have customers who could get nearly anything they wanted by progressively going over our heads.

And I don't think it's ever too late to do this.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Originally posted by anniet
I would not warn them of this practice...the discount may not be offered at all, and what kind of foot does that start everything off on?

Of course if I am referring anyone they would know the entire story and they could just ask the guide prior to going down.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

You know I asked for all of it. I said are there any extra perks that you get to buy like merchandice?" I was told no. Can I still qualify for the discount? He told me "no" I mean the thing that bugs me is if he were a different salesman I probably would have received the perks and the discount. I honestly asked more then once as did my husband and we were lied to.

Dean hit it right on the head if it were consistant then I wouldn't be so upset. Also had I not asked I would have been just hitting myself in the head saying "doh" but I asked repeatedly and told him he would hear from me if I found out otherwise.

Of course now I have to keep my word and give him a phone call on Tuesday. Even if it does any thing but let him know I found out so maybe the next customer gets fairer treatment then my job is done.

I mean what would I have to do to get the discount start crying or threatening? I asked reapeatedly KWIM? It just should be more consistant.

 

[mickeys#1fan]

I have been in sales for 15 years. It wasn't something I did because I failed at everything else. It wasn't a fallback. I chose it. And it didn't choose it because I am some "slimy" (yes someone on this thread did use that word to describe us) lowlife looking to make a quick buck. So I'll say right off the bat that I take personal offense when someone paints all salespersons with the same brush. Not all people that choose sales as a career are of below average intelligence or questionable character.

DVC certainly proves my point. I never felt pressured or lied to when I made the decision four years ago. I don't recall this $750 offer, so I don't think there's someone out there who got a better deal than me. And that's exactly what the $750 is. It's an offer, and inducement, an incentive. It's not a penalty. It's simply a means of moving the decision along faster.

One poster mentioned that the longer the deal is on the table, the less likely it is to close. That's exactly right. And that's not just what guides are paid to do, it's what they're expected to do - close business. If they don't, they're invited to pursue their careers in some other venue.

All that said, if the inducement is being applied inconsistently, then the OP has grounds to be upset. The idea of an up front warning is just silly, because this isn't a penalty. Nonetheless, everyone should be treated the same. The best sales lead to a long term relationship, in which the buyer trusts the seller and keeps on buying; i.e add-ons. This seems like a bad way to begin a relationship.

One final thought. I'm sure I'm not the only on the boards who has chosen to make a living in sales. We've seen plenty of buyers who have lied to get better credit terms, better pricing, or worse yet shopped proposals from salespeople just to squeeze another one for a better price. A big waste of time considering we could have spent it with someone who just might have bought. Not to mention the sexual harassment we endure on a daily basis. Being "slimy" happens on both sides of the table.

Just remember the next time you're about to sneer contemptuously at a salesperson - nothing happens in this economy until somebody sells something.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Originally posted by mickeys#1fan
I have been in sales for 15 years. It wasn't something I did because I failed at everything else. It wasn't a fallback. I chose it. And it didn't choose it because I am some "slimy" (yes someone on this thread did use that word to describe us) lowlife looking to make a quick buck. So I'll say right off the bat that I take personal offense when someone paints all salespersons with the same brush. Not all people that choose sales as a career are of below average intelligence or questionable character.

DVC certainly proves my point. I never felt pressured or lied to when I made the decision four years ago. I don't recall this $750 offer, so I don't think there's someone out there who got a better deal than me. And that's exactly what the $750 is. It's an offer, and inducement, an incentive. It's not a penalty. It's simply a means of moving the decision along faster.

One poster mentioned that the longer the deal is on the table, the less likely it is to close. That's exactly right. And that's not just what guides are paid to do, it's what they're expected to do - close business. If they don't, they're invited to pursue their careers in some other venue.

All that said, if the inducement is being applied inconsistently, then the OP has grounds to be upset. The idea of an up front warning is just silly, because this isn't a penalty. Nonetheless, everyone should be treated the same. The best sales lead to a long term relationship, in which the buyer trusts the seller and keeps on buying; i.e add-ons. This seems like a bad way to begin a relationship.

One final thought. I'm sure I'm not the only on the boards who has chosen to make a living in sales. We've seen plenty of buyers who have lied to get better credit terms, better pricing, or worse yet shopped proposals from salespeople just to squeeze another one for a better price. A big waste of time considering we could have spent it with someone who just might have bought. Not to mention the sexual harassment we endure on a daily basis. Being "slimy" happens on both sides of the table.

Just remember the next time you're about to sneer contemptuously at a salesperson - nothing happens in this economy until somebody sells something.

I completely agree with everything!!! I too had to make a living in sales. AND when I finally ventured out on my own with my own company i sold my photography as well as everything else in the company LOL. Anyway my clients knew that Mary wasn't getting any better a deal than Jane and when someone felt my prices were too high I would explain my costs to them. I was wide open as a sales person and it kept me honest. I also got many referrals and had long time clients. I would watch kids from birth to graduation of preschool to grad of junior high.

That is what made my clients feel comfortable and knew they could trust me. The reputation I have as a photographer led them to me but the relationship I built with my clients is what made me successful.

This is where I felt my guide failed me. I will never have a relationship of full trust with him.

 

[Dean]

mickeys#1fan, I'd agree in general. Howver, there are good and bad people in any profession and certain professions draw the bad. While DVC is an exception in timeshare sales (as is Marriott), the profession as a whole is pretty slimy. All you have to do is look down the road at Westgate to prove the point. Overall, they are likely a rung below used car salesman and some of them are honest as well.

In timeshare sales presentations, out and out lies and VERY common. I could list a number of common ones but will save that for another day.

While DVC guides are overall honest, some are not past being misleading. Ideas like buy VB and stay at WDW or implying that the exchange options are guaranteed. 5 in a studio or 1 BR is another shady area. The problem in this area though is that Disney tends to give in to make everyone happy, as you suggested in your situation as well. The rules were applied when a few have gotten by otherwise.

 

[mickeys#1fan]

Dean-

Sales & Marketing Management magazine voted MVC as the #1 sales organanization in the world. I would hope for nothing less. It's excellent they are no pressure since they work on straight commission. Have you ever seen a Hilton Grand Vacations presentation? What are they like?

 

[Deep-Thots]

When DH and I took the tour last month, the only inducement offered was the one they're handing out/mentioning at the kiosks: You can sell your 2004 points back to DVC for $10 per point, therefore effectively giving you a price of $85 (rather than $95) per point.

The 3-day-only, $750 refbate was never mentioned, and I don't believe it's applicable at this time.

It doesn't make me angry or anything. It just is what it is.

The only thing that did vex me after the fact was finding out that if you decide to purchase add-ons from Disney, DVC will only allow you to do so for your Use Year. Our guide made it sound as if you can just get them for any old UY. This may be a problem for us if we want to add on at SSR (being that they can't sell more points than they have available/already built....).

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by Deep-Thots
The only thing that did vex me after the fact was finding out that if you decide to purchase add-ons from Disney, DVC will only allow you to do so for your Use Year. Our guide made it sound as if you can just get them for any old UY. This may be a problem for us if we want to add on at SSR (being that they can't sell more points than they have available/already built....).

That's always been the case.

If you're worried about getting SSR points with your Use Year, then don't worry--at least in the short term. They will be selling brand new SSR points for at least another 3-4 years. They should have all Use Years available for that time period.

In the unlikely event that they don't have any points immediately available for your Use Year, you may just have to buy into a building that isn't quite open-for-business yet. If that's the case, you'll still get the points you want--you just may not be able to use them for a few weeks or months.

Once the resort is sold-out, you'll be in the same boat as owners at the other properties looking for add-ons. It's a matter of getting on a waiting list until the points become available via ROFR.

 

[Deep-Thots]

Originally posted by tjkraz


In the unlikely event that they don't have any points immediately available for your Use Year, you may just have to buy into a building that isn't quite open-for-business yet.

It's my (limited, I'll admit) understanding that DVC cannot legally sell deeds to buildings properties that haven't yet been finished (primarily because there's always a chance that they'll never be completed). I may be wrong about that, however.

Oh, I know I'll get the extra points eventually -- it just may mess up the vaca plans for next year. I can live with that for right now.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by mickeys#1fan
Dean-

Sales & Marketing Management magazine voted MVC as the #1 sales organanization in the world. I would hope for nothing less. It's excellent they are no pressure since they work on straight commission. Have you ever seen a Hilton Grand Vacations presentation? What are they like?

MVCI is a very good sales organization. A nice mix of aggressiveness and honesty. Some do go over the line. I have no experience with Hilton or Hyatt.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Deep-Thots
It's my (limited, I'll admit) understanding that DVC cannot legally sell deeds to buildings properties that haven't yet been finished (primarily because there's always a chance that they'll never be completed). I may be wrong about that, however.

Oh, I know I'll get the extra points eventually -- it just may mess up the vaca plans for next year. I can live with that for right now.

They can sell once registered and before finished. They can't close until close enough to finishing to assure things will work out.