Sad.......when will it end?

My best friends Dh works for DHL- not in Ohio. They are so upset. he's worked there for 20 years. It seems as though every week i am hearing about another friend who lost a job. I pray that all these people will find something soon.
 
That's the entire issue here, a job creation issue was on the ballot to offset the loss of most of these jobs, and the people voted no. Granted a DHL job is better, but when an entire town is about to fall off the map, a job is a job regardless of what type of job it is. .

Just to set the record straight - while this issue was voted down in the state of Ohio, it passed by a wide margin in Clinton County, which is where DHL/Wilmington hub is located.
 
Yes, stories like these point out why we have to save the auto industry. That was 10,000 jobs....think about what 5 million jobs lost overnight will do to communities.
 
I know how you feel, these poor people.

I mean I got laid off on Friday and was stunned and even still stunned today.

2 more got it today, that were doing very well so who knows the rhyme or reason.

I think someone on here started a thread by saying instead of giving that money to the BIG COMPANIES or what have you. Give it to the people. That way we can pay off the mortgages, buy things so that stores won't go out of business. I mean this is a domino effect. We were at 1.2 million jobs lost as of Oct. 31. Well its already Nov. 10 (Happy Birthday Marines!!) and 8,000 lost for DHL and I know the company that I worked for probably got rid of the same amount if not more.

QUOTE]

I agree give the bailout money to the people instead of the companies, It would help the economy people can get out of debt. IT would help people spend more.

There are so many economic reasons for not doing this that it barely bears pointing it out. Sending every American family $10,000 would be completely ridiculous. The "stimulus checks" that Bush sent out last year held off the current economic crisis for a few months, but it did nothing to solve the underlying problem. The problem is that everybody is overextended. This has happened before. The market has to correct itself. Credit has to be able to flow. The government is trying to speed up the recovery process with a minimum of collateral damage. I don't know if it's going to work, but it's an idea. The only other possibility is to just let the whole thing collapse, go through another Great Depression, and then gradually rebuild the economy the old-fashioned way. Nobody wants that.

The losses of jobs in the manufacturing sector are completely unsurprising. I know it sounds callous, but this trend has been evident for the past twenty years. This economic crisis has just sped things up. The United States economy has been moving away from a manufacturing economy into more of a service economy. Part of the reason for that is that it's cheaper to make things overseas, other countries have lower corporate taxes, it's still relatively cheap to ship things overseas, tariffs are generally low, etc. In many industries, it's too expensive to produce things in the United States and sell them as cheaply as the American consumer demands. Those jobs are never coming back. The only way they come back is if America turns into a protectionist economy with high tariffs. Say goodbye to low prices on items if that happens (unless the government sets price controls). Those are all completely anti-capitalist measures, by the way.

Still, a "Main Street bailout" (i.e., a welfare check) would help people to spend more. But, spending more doesn't fix anything. Spending more is what got us in this mess to begin with. Spending more is not the answer to this problem. Economists know that. As I said before, they're trying to rebuild the economy without tearing it down completely. Who knows if it will work? It might just delay a complete collapse for a few years. We'll see.
 

Spending too much definitely contributed to the problems but wasn't that generally spending using credit? I would think that spending actual cash wouldn't have that effect.

It's disheartening to think of the US moving to a service economy. Low paying jobs, hello!
 
Yes, stories like these point out why we have to save the auto industry. That was 10,000 jobs....think about what 5 million jobs lost overnight will do to communities.


What bothers me about the bailout is that tax dollars are going to come from people (some with no health insurance) to fund the UAW so a retiree can have a low copay or in some instances no co-pay at all????
 
Spending too much definitely contributed to the problems but wasn't that generally spending using credit? I would think that spending actual cash wouldn't have that effect.

It's disheartening to think of the US moving to a service economy. Low paying jobs, hello!

The problem is that it's not really cash that you'd be spending. It would be cash borrowed from China by the federal government. It's still credit, even if the money was borrowed at the federal level.

You're exactly right about the low paying jobs bit. I had this discussion with a friend of mine during the election. I argued that there are basically four tiers of service jobs, and that only the top two tiers have a shot at a really decent living. I also have a suspicion that it wouldn't shake out into a standard bell curve. I think it would definitely be skewed towards more people in the lower tiers than we have now. The manufacturing (and other jobs like construction, oil refining, etc... I view as "creation" jobs because they actually produce something) jobs balance things out now so that we have more of a bell curve, but if you take those away I think things shift significantly.

The way people would fight that is by unionizing more service jobs. You'd unionize beauticians, shop employees, waiters and waitresses, etc. You'd force collective bargaining on the employers, and then costs would rise as pay and benefits for those jobs also rise. Everything would get more expensive.
 
What bothers me about the bailout is that tax dollars are going to come from people (some with no health insurance) to fund the UAW so a retiree can have a low copay or in some instances no co-pay at all????

The union-forced pension and retiree health benefits are what is killing the auto industry. If you don't get to the root of that problem, we're just throwing good money after bad.
 
The losses of jobs in the manufacturing sector are completely unsurprising. I know it sounds callous, but this trend has been evident for the past twenty years. This economic crisis has just sped things up. The United States economy has been moving away from a manufacturing economy into more of a service economy. Part of the reason for that is that it's cheaper to make things overseas, other countries have lower corporate taxes, it's still relatively cheap to ship things overseas, tariffs are generally low, etc. In many industries, it's too expensive to produce things in the United States and sell them as cheaply as the American consumer demands. Those jobs are never coming back. The only way they come back is if America turns into a protectionist economy with high tariffs. Say goodbye to low prices on items if that happens (unless the government sets price controls). Those are all completely anti-capitalist measures, by the way.
.

the only problem with that is that service jobs are generally low paying, non living wages. That's one of the issues Disney is having with high turnover. I for one would not mind paying an extra $25 bucks on my TV if it meant some one would have a decent job (and as cruel as it sounds I absolutely hate calling my tech service # and getting some body in India who I can barely understand)

I have no problems with unions per se, I work for a fortune 500 huge company and starting in 09 any new employee will not have health care. That stinks and it's becoming the normal not the exception. maybe I'm over simplifying things but I do have a problem with living in the richest country in the world and not being able to send your kids to the doctor without it bankrupting you. My neighbors kid smash his bike into a car and broke his collar bone and arm, long story short 25,000 grand in the hole. It's sad.
 
There are so many economic reasons for not doing this that it barely bears pointing it out. Sending every American family $10,000 would be completely ridiculous. The "stimulus checks" that Bush sent out last year held off the current economic crisis for a few months, but it did nothing to solve the underlying problem. The problem is that everybody is overextended. This has happened before. The market has to correct itself. Credit has to be able to flow. The government is trying to speed up the recovery process with a minimum of collateral damage. I don't know if it's going to work, but it's an idea. The only other possibility is to just let the whole thing collapse, go through another Great Depression, and then gradually rebuild the economy the old-fashioned way. Nobody wants that.

The losses of jobs in the manufacturing sector are completely unsurprising. I know it sounds callous, but this trend has been evident for the past twenty years. This economic crisis has just sped things up. The United States economy has been moving away from a manufacturing economy into more of a service economy. Part of the reason for that is that it's cheaper to make things overseas, other countries have lower corporate taxes, it's still relatively cheap to ship things overseas, tariffs are generally low, etc. In many industries, it's too expensive to produce things in the United States and sell them as cheaply as the American consumer demands. Those jobs are never coming back. The only way they come back is if America turns into a protectionist economy with high tariffs. Say goodbye to low prices on items if that happens (unless the government sets price controls). Those are all completely anti-capitalist measures, by the way.

Still, a "Main Street bailout" (i.e., a welfare check) would help people to spend more. But, spending more doesn't fix anything. Spending more is what got us in this mess to begin with. Spending more is not the answer to this problem. Economists know that. As I said before, they're trying to rebuild the economy without tearing it down completely. Who knows if it will work? It might just delay a complete collapse for a few years. We'll see.

The thing about people being over extened is COL has increased so much but the raises (at least the ones my DH gets) is 5 cents a year then the companies started cutting hrs. This has been coming for a long time and it is sad. Hindsight had we known we wouldn't have gotten a 15yr mortgage instead of a 30yr so we would not have had the problems with everything going up and wages going down.
 
the only problem with that is that service jobs are generally low paying, non living wages. That's one of the issues Disney is having with high turnover. I for one would not mind paying an extra $25 bucks on my TV if it meant some one would have a decent job (and as cruel as it sounds I absolutely hate calling my tech service # and getting some body in India who I can barely understand)

I have no problems with unions per se, I work for a fortune 500 huge company and starting in 09 any new employee will not have health care. That stinks and it's becoming the normal not the exception. maybe I'm over simplifying things but I do have a problem with living in the richest country in the world and not being able to send your kids to the doctor without it bankrupting you. My neighbors kid smash his bike into a car and broke his collar bone and arm, long story short 25,000 grand in the hole. It's sad.

You might not mind paying an extra $25, but a lot of people do. Also, the companies producing televisions outside of the United States will likely be able to sell their TVs for $25 less than the American company. Perhaps the quality of the foreign TV is better, too? Then, if I'm standing at Best Buy, I'm going to buy the better TV that costs me $25 less. If enough people do that, the American company goes out of business. That's just how competitive markets operate. The only way you can prevent that from happening is buy keeping the foreign TVs out of the store by using tariffs and limits on imports. But, those are anticompetitive practices that force costs to rise, and everyone here seems to be complaining about how much things have gone up. It would get worse.
 
I am so sorry for these people. I blame it all on letting our jobs be outsourced. I would think the best way people can protect themselves is if they have or can learn a 'secondary economy' type skill. Secondary economies involve jobs which a communities population is dependent upon and are more often than not service related such as childcare, hair, auto maintainance, plumbing, electrical, health care etc.

The whole mess is like a giant set of slow moving dominoes. I worry abut the effects this will have when the magnitude finally hits suburbs. So far, many of us are careful but still a bit oblivious. The sentiment is fearful but hopeful, and I think that may cause many people to make bad financial decisions. Once we mess up there will be no-one left to pick things back up again and that I am deathly afraid of seeing happen...
 
Yes, stories like these point out why we have to save the auto industry. That was 10,000 jobs....think about what 5 million jobs lost overnight will do to communities.

I agree.
I think a lot of us are forgeting that about 10% of jobs are tied to the auto industry. At the present time the unemployment is 6.5% .


more than 14 million U.S. workers -- about 1 in 10 -- can draw a line from their job back to an auto factory or office worker, according to CAR.

Link to full article:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081103/AUTO01/811030343/1148/rss25

Add another 10% to that and our unemployment will be at 16.5 % .

With that number of people out of work there will be a lot less retail shopping.
More stores will go out of business and employees will be let go.

Less people will go to the movie theaters so some of those will close.
More people unemployed.

Less movies will be made...more people unemployed.

Less people will be able to go to WDW.

DVC will tank and owners will not be able to get 10 cents on the dollar when try to sell out.

Trickle down bankrupcy....that is what we are talking about.

JMHO
 
What bothers me about the bailout is that tax dollars are going to come from people (some with no health insurance) to fund the UAW so a retiree can have a low copay or in some instances no co-pay at all????

FYI

The retiree insurance for many GM employees stops this January 2009. They have already been told to buy their own insurance if they want/need coverage.
 
FYI

The retiree insurance for many GM employees stops this January 2009. They have already been told to buy their own insurance if they want/need coverage.

Then why is GM going to give billions of the bailout to the UAW? Is it pension costs?
 
Then why is GM going to give billions of the bailout to the UAW? Is it pension costs?

The way I understand it is that at this time retireed GM workers will still get the pensions that they paid into.
 
There are so many economic reasons for not doing this that it barely bears pointing it out. Sending every American family $10,000 would be completely ridiculous. The "stimulus checks" that Bush sent out last year held off the current economic crisis for a few months, but it did nothing to solve the underlying problem.

Exactly.

The problem is that everybody is overextended. This has happened before. The market has to correct itself. Credit has to be able to flow.

True again. And think of it this way, in order for the market to "correct" itself, what do most people think "correct itself" involves? Do we think it won't cost Americans for this to "correct itself"? It has to - at some point, it will cost. Whether it's now, or later, it will cost. The REAL question is, who should bear the burden of it? And the REAL answer to that is - the same individuals or corporations who are at fault in the first place. Problem is, nobody agrees on who or what that is.

The government is trying to speed up the recovery process with a minimum of collateral damage. I don't know if it's going to work, but it's an idea. The only other possibility is to just let the whole thing collapse, go through another Great Depression, and then gradually rebuild the economy the old-fashioned way. Nobody wants that.

Nobody may want it, but that sure is one way of the market "correcting itself", which everyone seems to agree needs to happen.

The losses of jobs in the manufacturing sector are completely unsurprising. I know it sounds callous, but this trend has been evident for the past twenty years. This economic crisis has just sped things up.

Yep.

The United States economy has been moving away from a manufacturing economy into more of a service economy. Part of the reason for that is that it's cheaper to make things overseas, other countries have lower corporate taxes, it's still relatively cheap to ship things overseas, tariffs are generally low, etc.

Translation: to keep up with the year-over-year profit margin increases that the investing public demands, companies must find new ways to cut their costs and keep their margin growth steady. At some point, the law of diminishing returns sets in, and you really have nowhere else to go. So you start shipping jobs and production where it's cheaper. Problem solved - margins can once again increase, b/c you've cut costs. But what we've NEVER focused on is the COST of doing that - the long-term damage to our own economy, caused by our increasing demand for better returns in our economy!

In many industries, it's too expensive to produce things in the United States and sell them as cheaply as the American consumer demands. Those jobs are never coming back.

Exactly right - and what we need to realize is there's only 2 basic solutions to the problem. Either be willing to accept higher prices, if it means a better economy with our own stuff produced here, or pay lower prices but be willing to accept that our economy will lose jobs to other countries. Given where we've let our economy get, it's easy to see which choice we - and that means all of us - have made. It's not just the government's fault - none of us were complaining when the economy was booming.

The only way they come back is if America turns into a protectionist economy with high tariffs. Say goodbye to low prices on items if that happens (unless the government sets price controls). Those are all completely anti-capitalist measures, by the way.

Exactly. Our problems are a result, and a natural derivative of, a capitalist economy. We say we want that, yet when it gives us results we don't like, we complain that it's the government's fault. Then, when the government attempts to fix it, we complain b/c we don't like what they're doing. We're really a bunch of whiny, greedy Americans, when it comes down to it.

Still, a "Main Street bailout" (i.e., a welfare check) would help people to spend more. But, spending more doesn't fix anything. Spending more is what got us in this mess to begin with. Spending more is not the answer to this problem. Economists know that. As I said before, they're trying to rebuild the economy without tearing it down completely. Who knows if it will work? It might just delay a complete collapse for a few years. We'll see.[/QUOTE]

Excellent closing points.
 
so, starving children are ok with you? Because THAT'S what you are talking about if we went through another Great Depression.
 
so, starving children are ok with you? Because THAT'S what you are talking about if we went through another Great Depression.

I agree.
It may be even worse than the depression of the 1930's.
During the 1930's the population was a lot less and many more families lived where they were able to grow some food to feed their families.
 
so, starving children are ok with you? Because THAT'S what you are talking about if we went through another Great Depression.

Thank you for raising this utterly hyperbolic point. What in the world do starving children have to do with this other than trying to inspire fear? You're trying to belittle our point by raising the specter of babies with malnourished, distended stomachs. There would be starving adults, too, but they don't make as "scary" of a point as starving children. Oh, the children.

Now, to clarify: I'm not saying I want a Great Depression. Who would want that? What I'm saying is that it might end up happening no matter what the government does. You seem to think that the government could solve all of this by printing up some money and sending you a check to hold you over until the recession is over and the economy has recovered. That is not how this works! The economy has to actually recover and to do that the systemic problems have to be fixed! You can't fix the problems without contraction and pain. That's just how it is. I know that's hard to accept, but it's reality.

The government didn't like the fact that people in the 30s went hungry, but there was very, very little that they could do about it. FDR tried a number of solutions and none of them worked. World War II fixed the Great Depression, not the Civilian Conservation Corps. Who knows if this bailout package will work? The only thing I know is that it will work a million times better than the US Treasury writing every American family a $10,000 check.
 


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