Sad Story from One Who Trusted without Checking!

manning said:
There appears to be a possible federal crime here.
18 USC 1343 is one of a number of federal and state statutes which could be applied here. Obviously, you explore all options in situations like these.

The best option remains for the person who took the money to refund the money.
 
Has anyone ever thought of maybe this board verifying or creating a membership of good quality renters or maybe even rentees. You could give them a color changing star like on EBAY. maybe even a feedback section. Could be a way to make some extra revenue! But more importantly making alot of people more comfortable. Just my opinion, take it for what you paid for it

This board is one of the best though

John :woohoo:
 
sweet48 said:
Has anyone ever thought of maybe this board verifying or creating a membership of good quality renters or maybe even rentees. You could give them a color changing star like on EBAY. maybe even a feedback section. Could be a way to make some extra revenue! But more importantly making alot of people more comfortable. Just my opinion, take it for what you paid for it

This board is one of the best though

John :woohoo:
Yes, there have been numerous suggestions along those lines, as well as discussions of the suggestions throughout this thread...as recently as the previous page. :disrocks:
 
Wow, some very good information on what can, should and may be done in this case. I hope all is being taken care of with expediance and discression so Dani and Stacey get some results. Jim, you are so right that the BEST way is for the PP to just come foward with the money ASAP. I' not holding my breath waiting for that to happen, however. :guilty:
 

JimMIA said:
18 USC 1343 is one of a number of federal and state statutes which could be applied here. Obviously, you explore all options in situations like these.

The best option remains for the person who took the money to refund the money.[/QUOTE


Agreed, but I wouldn't explore too much longer. In a way you are in a form of negotiation with that person and some kind of incentive will have to be given for her to perform.
 
manning said:
Agreed, but I wouldn't explore too much longer. In a way you are in a form of negotiation with that person and some kind of incentive will have to be given for her to perform.

I think the BEST incentive to offer the PP is if she returns the money, the incidences will not be turned over to the police. Win-Win.
 
How about the People's Court? Or even better Judge Judy! That way she could get a life lesson (browbeating) while having a judgement entered against her.
 
OceanAnnie said:
I think the BEST incentive to offer the PP is if she returns the money, the incidences will not be turned over to the police. Win-Win.
::yes::
 
So sorry this has happened to you!
Wishing pixie dust and good vibes your way.
Even though this icky thing happened to you, I believe that later down the line you will be blessed with something to offset the loss.

As for the PP, it comes down to Karma.
There will be a time when the action is deeply regreted & I am sure there will be alot of guilt about this later.
 
well, I like many others here, are reading daily to find out the outcome. and I absolutely agree that the PP just needs to make good on the funds taken.

to the PP:

all that any of us want here is for Dani and Stacey to receive their funds back in as timely a fashion as you can adhere to. I'm thinking that you're following this thread daily as are we. we all can understand falling on hard times. all we implore is that you contact the above named people and work out a plan to make restitution. whatever steps they themselves are taking, you can be sure that this matter will not just go away. so in the best interest of yourself and your family, just contact them and try to work something out. the longer this drags on, the harder it will be for you to come forward.

to Dani and Stacey:

your grace under these extreme circumstances is admired by many, me included. if there is anything I could do to make this better, I would. because like everyone else here, my trips to WDW are a little bit of heaven, a "happy place" so to speak. and I would be deeply crushed if that dream was broken by anyone in any fashion....

wishing the best to all involved. oh yes, and I just want to add, I am EXTREMELY proud to be a member of this community. alot of fine , upstanding folks here.

Michelle
 
doubletrouble_vb said:
How about the People's Court? Or even better Judge Judy! That way she could get a life lesson (browbeating) while having a judgement entered against her.

Great idea! If I understand these shows correctly, the litigants are paid for their appearance and any awards are deducted and given to the plaintiff if they win. So, it could be a win-win all around...I'm not 100% sure about it - I just remember reading a blurb at the end of the People's Court one day (the credits at the end).

I also have been checking daily hoping for a happy resolution...still hoping.
 
sweet48 said:
Has anyone ever thought of maybe this board verifying or creating a membership of good quality renters or maybe even rentees. You could give them a color changing star like on EBAY. maybe even a feedback section. Could be a way to make some extra revenue! But more importantly making alot of people more comfortable. Just my opinion, take it for what you paid for it

This board is one of the best though

John :woohoo:


This is a great idea! I am sure this thread has made many people decide never to rent points on the DIS. It is unfortunate, but it really does only take a few rotten apples .....If there was a rating system, it may restore the faith in renting here on the DIS. :) I know I am extremely leery of the whole process now.
 
doubletrouble_vb said:
How about the People's Court? Or even better Judge Judy! That way she could get a life lesson (browbeating) while having a judgement entered against her.


Both parties have to show up, don't see that happening.
 
monkeyjuce said:
These transactions are all about trust and I have been looking to rent points but it is scary...I honestly don't know what to do after reading this today. I am sceptical and I think rightfully so. Anyone have any advice on how not to be scammed? There seems to be a debate over Western Union vs. Papal.
I know if the ressies are made (with the owners points) what is the cancellation penalty?

Never use Western Union to send money to someone you do not personally know. Ever.

Never rent from someone you don't know who "has to have all the money before making the reservation" when you are asking for a reservation well in advance (4-11months or so). Personally I have never even paid a deposit to a pointowner, I always have paid-in-full upon receipt of the original DVC reservation confirmation letter. Nothing before that, however, because the pointowner is generally risking nothing but a little time if a rentee flakes out so far in advance.

Cancellation/refund-or-not agreement should be spelled out. In my deals we have just agreed on these points by email for my small rental amounts, but for high$ rentals I would say printed and signed/notarized is best.

I think the best methods to pay for rented points to protect buyer and seller are :
Certified cashier's check from a phone-able major US bank with multiple locations...
Personal check from phone-able major US bank with multiple locations...
Possibly US Postal Money order (I have not researched how well the Post Office checks IDs when someone cashes these, however, and there is a dollar limit on each one)....

When I have rented some points, I paid by personal check once and business check once. My business is easily verifiable online as real, and the pointowner had no real risk, since if the check didn't clear he could cancel the reservation. After the DVC confirmation is in hand and after the payment clears, there is very little risk left (usually none for the seller), and a great stay is probably going to happen :sunny:

Both times I have rented have been from folks with less than 100 posts at the time (the last had less than 10), so # of posts isn't a deal-killer, it's just a small part of the trust picture. The person with less than 10 posts had been a DIS member for almost 3 years, and none of the threads they posted in (all DVC) had people asking them "hey, what happened to my reservation," and the name/address/phone info they sent to me was verifiable both by searching online and through other methods (UPS database, etc.), and payment was to be made only to that person at that address. Plus it didn't hurt that I was renting less than $600 worth of points both times (gotta love the low weekday pointcost at OKW :banana: ). So # of posts is not as important as the information the pointowner gives you after first contact. Of course, if someone has as many posts over as long a period as someone like robinb, it's a pretty good bet that they are probably safe to rent from :teeth: :thumbsup2

Here is a recent thread with more tips (but they and the above are just tips--your mileage may vary).
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1255828



As for this thread... being the natural born cynic that I am, I personally was hearing alarm bells from the getgo from the details in the original post. But maybe I'm just jaded. Fingers crossed for those who've been seemingly defrauded.
 
BurkeTribe said:
Never use Western Union to send money to someone you do not personally know. Ever.

Never rent from someone you don't know who "has to have all the money before making the reservation" when you are asking for a reservation well in advance (4-11months or so). Personally I have never even paid a deposit to a pointowner, I always have paid-in-full upon receipt of the original DVC reservation confirmation letter. Nothing before that, however, because the pointowner is generally risking nothing but a little time if a rentee flakes out so far in advance.

Cancellation/refund-or-not agreement should be spelled out. In my deals we have just agreed on these points by email for my small rental amounts, but for high$ rentals I would say printed and signed/notarized is best.

I think the best methods to pay for rented points to protect buyer and seller are :
Certified cashier's check from a phone-able major US bank with multiple locations...
Personal check from phone-able major US bank with multiple locations...
Possibly US Postal Money order (I have not researched how well the Post Office checks IDs when someone cashes these, however, and there is a dollar limit on each one)....

When I have rented some points, I paid by personal check once and business check once. My business is easily verifiable online as real, and the pointowner had no real risk, since if the check didn't clear he could cancel the reservation. After the DVC confirmation is in hand and after the payment clears, there is very little risk left (usually none for the seller), and a great stay is probably going to happen :sunny:

Both times I have rented have been from folks with less than 100 posts at the time (the last had less than 10), so # of posts isn't a deal-killer, it's just a small part of the trust picture. The person with less than 10 posts had been a DIS member for almost 3 years, and none of the threads they posted in (all DVC) had people asking them "hey, what happened to my reservation," and the name/address/phone info they sent to me was verifiable both by searching online and through other methods (UPS database, etc.), and payment was to be made only to that person at that address. Plus it didn't hurt that I was renting less than $600 worth of points both times (gotta love the low weekday pointcost at OKW :banana: ). So # of posts is not as important as the information the pointowner gives you after first contact. Of course, if someone has as many posts over as long a period as someone like robinb, it's a pretty good bet that they are probably safe to rent from :teeth: :thumbsup2

Here is a recent thread with more tips (but they and the above are just tips--your mileage may vary).
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1255828



As for this thread... being the natural born cynic that I am, I personally was hearing alarm bells from the getgo from the details in the original post. But maybe I'm just jaded. Fingers crossed for those who've been seemingly defrauded.

One question I have for you.... When you rent, How much time does your rentee give you to pay? They have paid for your vacation until you do. Whether they have anything to loose or not they have money on the line, out of pocket.
 
kimberh said:
One question I have for you.... When you rent, How much time does your rentee give you to pay? They have paid for your vacation until you do. Whether they have anything to loose or not they have money on the line, out of pocket.

Every DVC Owner/Renter is different. I can only speak for myself. I usually set a date about 5 weeks after I make the reservation for my first payment. That gives me enough time to receive the written confirmation from DVC and send it to my renter. The only time I would be "out money" in a rental deal would be if the renter cancels and I cannot re-rent the points before they expire. That's why I require full payment by 3 months in advance of the reservation date.
 
robinb said:
The only time I would be "out money" in a rental deal would be if the renter cancels and I cannot re-rent the points before they expire.
That might be the only time you'd be "out money," but it's not the only time you could have difficulty. If banking deadlines pass between booking and cancellation, that will greatly limit your flexibility with the points. If you have borrowed points for the ressie (first of all, SHAME ON YOU!), that's going to be a problem. If you are coming up on a particularly busy time for DVC, you may not be able to find any availability at resorts. There can be a host of other issues.

One of the most sound strategies I've ever read on renting came from Dean (I think) and it is to only rent early in your use year. If you do that, you have much more flexibility in the event of a cancellation. It's pretty difficult to feel sorry for some of the owners when you read posts that they've borrowed points for a ressie a month before the end of their UY, and the renter has canceled on them two weeks out without paying a penny. :rolleyes:
That's why I require full payment by 3 months in advance of the reservation date.
This is eminently sensible advice, and I can't believe more owners don't insist on this. For some reason, many DVC owners seem to fiercely resist handling these business transactions like they are business transactions.

If you book a ski vacation at Vail, or a Caribbean cruise, or a lot of other destination-type trips...you're going to pay in full WAY in advance, and probably on a completely non-cancelable basis. Those situations are the reason trip insurance was created. DVC is no different, and more owners should approach things like Robin does.

In our concern for Dani and Stacey, let's not forget that it is the OWNERS who usually have more problems with rentals than the people renting the ressies.
 
kimberh said:
One question I have for you.... When you rent, How much time does your rentee give you to pay? They have paid for your vacation until you do. Whether they have anything to loose or not they have money on the line, out of pocket.

Have always paid-in-full when I receive the official DVC reservation confirmation letter. The first time it was pretty much necessary for the situation (reservation made late August for mid-October) to protect the pointowner/renter*. The second time it wasn't necessary (5 months before trip), but I suggested it to let the pointowner/renter know I was serious, and that I trusted him/her, and that he/she would have no worries with the deal. However, both deals were for less than $1000. On more than that, I would request a notarized contract, and I would probably pay 1/3 or 1/2 on receipt of DVC conf., and the rest at 3 months before the trip reservation date, to be totally paid up by then as robinb states above. If that wasn't good enough for the pointowner/renter and it was a large amount, I would perhaps suggest an escrow deal for 50% of the amount.




*I use "renter" to mean "person who owns the points" and "rentee" to mean "person who wants to use someone else's points"... but perhaps "rentor" would be clearer for the former, since the dictionary confusingly defines "renter" as referencing both sides of a rental deal :crazy:
 
BurkeTribe said:
On more than that, I would request a notarized contract, and I would probably pay 1/3 or 1/2 on receipt of DVC conf., and the rest at 3 months before the trip reservation date, to be totally paid up by then as robinb states above. If that wasn't good enough for the pointowner/renter and it was a large amount, I would perhaps suggest an escrow deal for 50% of the amount.

This is a good idea!!! Not so much how the money is exchanged but if I took my DVC material to a notary so they could verify that they had seen the signed DVC contract on the rental contract that would at least put a renters mind at ease. Conversely if the renter gets the contract notarized on their end before mailing it back to verify the home address given to the owner that could help ease fears on the otherside. This would be good for rentals of 40 to sixty days notice.
 

















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