Running Renaissance: Road to Paris 2024

[azrivest]

Happy birthday

 

[lookingforsunshine]

 

[GollyGadget]

Happy birthday

Thank you!

View attachment 682067

 

[JAMIESMITH]

I appreciate the suggestion. I actually have a flip belt but not the water bottle. Do you notice it bouncing around at all?

I don't prefer running in mine but I can't remember why at the moment. It only makes an appearance if I have no pockets and I don't need to carry any water. I'm typically nervous the entire run that my epinephrine will fall out. It hasn't yet but maybe that extra unnecessary stress is why I avoid it.

The larger flip belt bottle is curved and it hugs the contour of your lower back. I honestly like to freeze the bottle when it's hot because it feels so nice. My belt is snug so I have no issues with bouncing. I will say that I'm not a fan of the sloshing noise, but I'm not sure there's anyway around that.

 

[GollyGadget]

Run to Exile 10K Training - Week 8/20
This was a rough week, mentally and physically. I’m starting to question my training plan a bit but I’m traveling this week so I’ll do this one more week as scheduled and then reassess. Going into this plan, my goals were to work on some speed and ramp up my weekly mileage. The speed workouts seem to be going okay but I’m not so sure about the mileage. I thought that I needed to build up my base a bit before marathon training started but I’m wondering if that was a bad assumption? Obviously not starting at 0 but I'm starting to think that 30-35 mpw is a good place for me to be. Any thoughts or facts out there about what my weekly mileage should be before getting started?

Intuitively, more mileage seems better if my body can handle it but I’m worried that I’m on the verge of burnout which I’d like to avoid. My new job is also taking more time and energy than I expected. After 2+ years of remote work, I forgot how exhausting it can be for this introvert to be around people all day.

My only remaining goal for the year is to train for the marathon which means that I’m ready and open to making any changes this cycle that will set me up for January success.

Scheduled
Monday - Off
Tuesday - I 4x1000
Wednesday - T 3x1mi
Thursday - Off
Friday - Easy 6 miles
Saturday - Easy 7 miles
Sunday - Easy 10 miles

Completed
Monday - Off
Tuesday - I 4x1000 - It was incredibly hot and humid this day and since it was my first I pace workout, I took advantage of the treadmill. My notes say it was tough but I honestly don't remember. I also squeezed in some strength work afterward.
Wednesday - T 3x1mi - it was a bit cooler but still very very humid. Despite my weather app telling me that there was no foreseeable rain, I could see an ominous cloud in the distance. I didn't really have time to reschedule and I didn't want to treadmill again. I made sure to keep my route near the park bathrooms so I could take cover if necessary. Turns out it was necessary and I spent about 10 minutes hiding from the lighting before I could go for my 3rd mile.
Thursday - Off
Friday - Easy 6 miles - I was exhausted when my alarm went off Friday morning so I elected to postpone my morning run. I got the run in after work but it was a struggle to convince myself to get out the door.
Saturday - Easy 7 3.5 miles - this run was an absolute struggle. I could not convince my legs to get moving and my pace was slooooooow. Like over a minute slower than normal. I took this as a sign that this run wasn't meant to be so I headed home. In my mind I thought I might have more energy later in the day and could finish it then but that never really happened.
Sunday - Easy 10 5 miles - this run was much better than the day before but I still wasn't really feeling it. Plus it was quite warm. I spent most of the run trying to convince myself why running 10 miles was necessary. Eventually, I decided that my long run should at least be longer than my 10K race so I aimed for 7 miles but obviously I didn't even make it that far. Thus began all the questions of what the heck am I doing and do I need to adjust my plan.

I hope all of you had a better week than I did and may we all have many happy runs in the future!

 

[striker1064]

After 2+ years of remote work, I forgot how exhausting it can be for this introvert to be around people all day.

My goodness yes. l did not miss the office and I hate going back.

 

[azrivest]

It's okay to have a down week once in a while.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I thought that I needed to build up my base a bit before marathon training started but I’m wondering if that was a bad assumption? Obviously not starting at 0 but I'm starting to think that 30-35 mpw is a good place for me to be. Any thoughts or facts out there about what my weekly mileage should be before getting started?

So crunching some numbers. You ran a 1:48:03 HM recently which translates to training paces like these:



In my view, average training pace should be around Easy 2 (9:37 min/mile) or slower (depending on T+D adjustments). So when you're doing about 33-35 miles, it should take about a little over 5.25-5.5 hrs (which looks close to your Strava data). You had mentioned at the start of this that you were aiming for 40-50 mpw on the Daniels 10k plan which should put your around 6.5-8 hrs per week.

So to turn the question around, when training for the marathon, where do you want your peak volume to fall? Are you aiming for 8 hours per week, or are you aiming for 10 hrs per week or something else? In my view, most (but not all runners) do best on a progressive build in volume towards the peak. Such that you shouldn't hit peak mileage until much closer to race day. There are some plans that peak in volume much sooner (say 10-12 weeks prior to race day). The sooner you're required to hit peak, then the more volume you'd likely want to have going into the plan. So along with, what do you want to peak at, is when do you want to hit the peak volume? For the vast majority of plans I write, I prefer a progressive building cycle that takes about 12-14 weeks leading into the marathon. So if you peak at the tail end of training, then I usually ask my runners to be at around 50-60% volume at the start of the plan about 16-18 weeks prior to the marathon. So if you were aiming to peak at 8 hrs, then you'd want to be at 4-4.75 hrs. I probably wouldn't aim for a peak much more than say 2 hours more than a peak that you've shown you can handle in training and performed well at. More does not always equal better, and each individual has to find whether they're a high volume responder or not. If you ascribe to training load theory like I do, then peaking in volume too soon could yield a stagnation in performance late in the training phase.

Remember, you can go as slow as +5 min from 5k pace (or 12:34 min/mile in your case even without T+D adj.) and still reap the benefits of easy days/long run days. So don't get too sucked into pace that you can't be kind to your body when you need to be. Also as a second point, you had that down period at the beginning of June per Strava. Think of your training like the Titanic. It takes awhile to turn the boat around. So you may be feeling sluggish because you're currently still digging yourself out of neutral training and haven't quite made it into optimal training just quite yet. So consider backing off the hard days more and keeping the easy days as is until your body catches up to the changes.

 

[GollyGadget]

My goodness yes. l did not miss the office and I hate going back.

I foolishly thought that I did miss the office . Or at least had convinced myself that it would be nice to have a local team. I've pretty much decided that I'm going to try going in a couple of afternoons instead of the whole day. We'll see if that helps

It's okay to have a down week once in a while.

Thank you! It's always nice to have the support.

So to turn the question around, when training for the marathon, where do you want your peak volume to fall? Are you aiming for 8 hours per week, or are you aiming for 10 hrs per week or something else?

I actually probably average an 11 min/mi pace on my easy runs. Sometimes it may be closer to 10 but it rarely goes below that. I really enjoy the slow miles. Summer also plays some role in the slower than expected pace.
I was planning to follow the Hanson plan again which peaks at 57 and, in my mind, I thought it would be beneficial to be running close to that mileage before the plan started. I've been meaning to reread the book... I'm sure it has some advice on what my baseline should be. Anyway, after looking more closely at the plan again, I'm not really sure if it's the right plan for me right now. There's a lot of weekday mileage that could be a struggle to fit in. For example, the tempos climb up to 10 miles plus wu & cd. I could manage to fit in 8 tempo miles but not feasibly 10. The strength are a similar story.
Acknowledging the fact that I need to come up with a new plan and based on my availability, I expect to peak around 8 hours which breaks down to 4.5 hrs through the week and 3.5 on the weekend. Exactly the example you provided . Are you a mind reader? it sounds I'm good to stay at my current mileage, and no reason to try to find another or hour or two for running (yet).

So consider backing off the hard days more and keeping the easy days as is until your body catches up to the changes.

Thank you for this! I sort of forgot that I just took some time off. Also good advice about where to spend my energy. Definitely took this into account on my run today

 

[WillRunForPizza]

I've pretty much decided that I'm going to try going in a couple of afternoons instead of the whole day. We'll see if that helps

I have been doing this and it's definitely better for me! It's much more tolerable to be in an office for a few hours than the entire day.

 

[GollyGadget]

Run to Exile 10K Training - Week 9/20
This week went much better than last.

 

[GollyGadget]

Run to Exile 10K Training - Week 9/20 pt 2
I have no idea why the previous entry got posted but I kind of like the mystery so I’m keeping it . Thanks everyone for your support. This week I focused on getting in easy miles and giving myself grace if the paced workouts were not meant to be.

My speed workouts were scheduled to increase this coming week but I've gone ahead and revised them to keep them at a similar intensity to what I have (or have not) been doing the last couple of weeks.

Scheduled
Monday - Off
Tuesday - I 4x1000
Wednesday - T 3mi + R 4x200
Thursday - Off
Friday - Easy 6 miles
Saturday - Easy 7 miles
Sunday - Marathon Tempo 7 miles

Completed
Monday - Off
Tuesday - I 4x1000 - this one took me a couple of reps before I realized that interval pace was essentially 5K pace. Once I found the faster gear, the second half of my intervals were much closer.
Wednesday - T 1mi 3mi + R 4x200 - after my warm up, I made it only one of my three miles before I decided I just didn't have it in me. The schedule purposefully has the two back to back hard days during this phase with the note that they can be changed if needed. I'm going to try for one more week but I might be readjusting yet again next week and giving myself an easy day in between.
Thursday - Off
Friday - Easy 6 miles - nothing really notable about this run except I do want to mention the pacing - 11:17, 11:16, 10:53, 10:43, 10:46, 10:42. This not atypical for me. I'm a notoriously slow starter and rarely find my groove before the 3rd mile.
Saturday - Easy 7 miles - this run felt really strong. I was glad for it after the big blowup last weekend.
Sunday - Marathon Tempo 7 miles - when the week started, I had predecided that I wouldn't run the tempo miles and instead just go nice and easy. After Saturdays strong run I decided that I would see how things went and give myself the option to run tempo pace. After the mile warm up, I gradually increased my pace each mile. This went fairly well and I got my pace down to 8:46 for the 6th mile. The 7th mile didn't go quite as well at 8:59 so I decided that my body was done for the day and finished with one more cool down mile. I know that wasn't the run as scheduled, but I'm really quite pleased with how it went. 8 miles is way better than the 5 I suffered through the previous Sunday. It was a good way to end the week and I'm looking forward to the week ahead.

Happy running y'all!

 

[lookingforsunshine]

I have no idea why the previous entry got posted but I kind of like the mystery so I’m keeping it

Ha. I had just assumed that it was better but you were tired or something. I was probably just projecting

Glad you had a good week!

 

[GollyGadget]

Run to Exile 10K Training - Week 10/20
Whoaaaa, we're halfway there! Speaking of halfway, it came up in conversation this week that mile 20 is the halfway point of the marathon. My non running partner insisted that halfway was mile 13 and while he's not technically wrong, it doesn't feel like halfway. In my experience, the first 13 are just a warm up for the next 13.... Which makes mile 20 pretty darn close to "halfway." I'd even argue that halfway of a 5k is after mile 2 because that last mile really sucks a lot more than the first two combined. What do y'all think? At what point does the effort feel halfway?

Scheduled
Monday - Off
Tuesday - I 5x800
Wednesday - T 3x1mi
Thursday - Off
Friday - Easy 6 miles
Saturday - Easy 6 miles
Sunday - Easy 10 miles

Scheduled
Monday - Off - no running on Monday but I did watch the WAC women's marathon while working that morning. So cool to see three Americans in the top 10!
Tuesday - I 5x800 - my legs were a bit tired for this workout which was actually a giant relief. I know how to push through on tired legs and it's much better than not having the energy.
Wednesday - T 3x1mi - this run went well too until the cool down. I felt some sort of sting/bite in my leg and could all of a sudden feel my heartbeat in my fingers. I was really nervous about another EIA incident so I immediately stopped running and walked my cool down. I then insisted my partner go on the morning dog walk with me because even though it had been 20 minutes I wasn't convinced I was out of the woods. It turned into a non event but I still think walking the cool down was the right decision.
Thursday - Off
Friday - Easy 6 miles off - not mentioned yet is that I contracted some heat hives on Sunday and instead of going away they got worse on Thursday. Getting hives when overheating is not a new phenomenon in my life but it hasn't happened for years so kind of a bummer that it's back. Anyway, the combination of hives, the heat, and my fear of EIA lead me to a day off. In hindsight, I could have done a few miles on the basement treadmill which leads me to Saturday...
Saturday - Easy 6 miles - still covered in hives and with highs near 100, there was no chance I was going outside. I setup a fan in front of the treadmill to help keep me cool but still almost stopped halfway because I was becoming overheated... Turns out I didn't have the fan angled high enough so after a quick adjustment I was able to finish my run.
Sunday - Easy 10 miles - it was much cooler by Sunday, not cool (T+D 145) but manageable so I headed outside in the am. Even though I was scheduled for 10, my plan was to run out 4.5 and then tack on the extra mile at the end if I felt up for it. Things were going well until about the 3 mile mark when my right hip started hurting. I then remembered why I had stopped running that particular route because of the road camber. I drifted toward the middle of the road and then fortunately remembered there was a bike trail coming up on my left that I could run to. The change in surface was enough to keep the pain from getting worse and I was feeling good enough that I decided to wait until the 5 mile mark to turn around. I altered the route home to avoid the park road and discovered a lovely mile gravel path that connected me to the next bike trail. I felt strong throughout this run and finished a bit faster than easy pace but hopefully not too fast. Likely this was because of the missed run on Friday. Splits were 11:08, 10:52, 10:59, 10:59, 11:03, 10:20, 9:57, 9:50, 9:36, 9:24. My easy pace is officially 9:37-10:34 so it apparently it takes me 5 miles to warm up to that .

Finally, not at all running related, but I woke up this morning to at least a dozen hot air balloons. Still not sure why but it brought a smile to my face.



Happy running friends!

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Whoaaaa, we're halfway there! Speaking of halfway, it came up in conversation this week that mile 20 is the halfway point of the marathon. My non running partner insisted that halfway was mile 13 and while he's not technically wrong, it doesn't feel like halfway. In my experience, the first 13 are just a warm up for the next 13.... Which makes mile 20 pretty darn close to "halfway." I'd even argue that halfway of a 5k is after mile 2 because that last mile really sucks a lot more than the first two combined. What do y'all think? At what point does the effort feel halfway?

I have not yet run a marathon, but I have heard it called a 20-mile warm-up followed by a 10K, so your interpretation seems reasonable to me. Actually, taken that way you could even say 23.1 miles in is the halfway point!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Whoaaaa, we're halfway there! Speaking of halfway, it came up in conversation this week that mile 20 is the halfway point of the marathon. My non running partner insisted that halfway was mile 13 and while he's not technically wrong, it doesn't feel like halfway. In my experience, the first 13 are just a warm up for the next 13.... Which makes mile 20 pretty darn close to "halfway." I'd even argue that halfway of a 5k is after mile 2 because that last mile really sucks a lot more than the first two combined. What do y'all think? At what point does the effort feel halfway?

Either "halfway" or just that they're two different race experiences. There's getting to mile 20, and then there's everything after. I've done sixteen marathons, and maybe only three of them haven't felt that way (Lake 2015, Disney 2018, and Madison 2021). But there's a monumental difference to how you feel at 13.1 versus 20.0.

 

[Naomeri]

I don’t know about marathons, but when I run a half marathon difference, I think I feel “halfway” around mile 9 or 10

 

[GollyGadget]

I have not yet run a marathon, but I have heard it called a 20-mile warm-up followed by a 10K, so your interpretation seems reasonable to me. Actually, taken that way you could even say 23.1 miles in is the halfway point!

I'm having a lot of fun imagining all the dirty looks I'd get if I held a "halfway there" sign at mile 23.1 of my local marathon . It's conveniently only a mile from my house so might have to give it a try.

Either "halfway" or just that they're two different race experiences.

That might be a better way to explain it. Even in my first marathon where I made all the rookie mistakes, the first 13.1 were easy. The second 13.1 belong in a different book altogether.

I don’t know about marathons, but when I run a half marathon difference, I think I feel “halfway” around mile 9 or 10

Agree. First 9 is no problem but that last 4 requires a different effort completely.

 

[GollyGadget]

Run to Exile 10K Training - Week 11/20
This week I took a look at my July training volume and was quite shocked. I knew my miles had been coming in and that I was going to break 100 for the first time since March, but I did not realize by how much.

135! That's bananas!
I haven't run that many monthly miles since 2017 when I was training for the WDW marathon. You can also see that my training has been really consistent. There's only one missed workout! I'm really excited to see how this all pays off in September and onward.

One thing I haven't been doing a great job at is my strength training. With a lot of travel days, it was difficult to find time at home with my DVD and weights. Since I'm basically going to be traveling the entire month of August, I took some notes from the Hanson Marathon body weight workouts and plan to start doing those instead. They should be quite a bit easier than what I was doing but it will certainly be a LOT better than the nothing that I've been doing the last couple of weeks.

Scheduled
Monday - Off
Tuesday - I 4x1000
Wednesday - T 1+2+0.5 + R 4x200
Thursday - Off
Friday - Easy 6 miles
Saturday - Easy 7 miles
Sunday - Marathon Tempo 4+4

Completed
Monday - Off
Tuesday - I 4x1000 - this was a really good workout. I could feel it in my legs and breathing but it never felt too much. I'm not the best at pacing (likely one of the reasons I rarely mention it ), but my goal for these was 7:22 and my splits were 7:20, 7:41, 7:24, 7:28. Not perfect but I'm more than happy about them.
Wednesday - T 1+2+0.5 + R 4x200 - it was really humid this am. I took the dogs for a walk beforehand and almost decided to run on the treadmill because the air was so thick. Ultimately, I decided to go outside and use the weather as an opportunity to prepare for less than ideal conditions on race day. My T pace was 30 seconds slower than prescribed but I was able to hold onto it for the duration of the workout. However, I was struggling during that last half mile so decided to call it quits and skip the 200s. I don't think there's any chance my legs could have found that gear.
Not really how I wanted the workout to go, but glad I went. The back to back hard days are scheduled to prevent me from going too hard on Tuesday which sounds great on paper but doesn't seem to be working for me so I updated my schedule to have an easy/off day between.
Thursday - Off
Friday - Easy 6 miles - I decided run the opposite direction from normal on Friday. I was looking for a change of scenery and thought it would be fun to see the setup for the skateboarding competition. Well, I couldn't really get that close to the skate park and nearly got hit by a truck making a right turn that had stopped but then decided to start accelerating just as I was in his path. I'm hoping/guessing he didn't see me because of the sun glare but it was quite terrifying and now I remember why I don't run that direction
Saturday - Easy 7 miles - We spent Friday at a new brewery in town and then the aforementioned skateboard competition (I.e. I was up late and drank several beers). I was quite tired when I got going but the run shockingly fine.
Sunday - Marathon Tempo 4+4 - this run started out okay and I was actually really looking forward to the mileage split. I have a really hard time keeping any sort of pace for more than a mile because I get lost in my own head and forget that I'm meant to be running. As in other tempos, my plan was to slowly increase pace. I finished the 4th mile right on pace and turned around to head back. I was still feeling pretty strong but once the tempo started, I couldn't quite find the pace again. I still felt good but was getting warm so I decided to keep plugging along and dumped some water on myself. Right after the 6th tempo mile, I went through an underpass and things got weird. I was thankful for the shade but all of a sudden felt like I hit a wall. I kept telling myself just 2 more miles, just one more mile, etc. I made it to my car and was DONE. Then my watch told me I had a mile cool down.... Sorry, don't think so.
I'm still not really sure what happened. I ate breakfast beforehand when I usually run fasted so I don't think it was a fueling thing. My best guess is that my body just wasn't rested enough due to basically running on empty all day on Saturday. I'm feeling better today but Sunday felt like a full on race day effort. Not really ideal so I'm going to pay closer attention in the weeks ahead to my training and when I need to dial it back.

Happy running y'all!

 

[GollyGadget]

Run to Exile 10K Training - Week 12/20
I would like to publicly apologize to everyone that I secretly judged when told that they couldn’t find the time/energy for running because of a demanding job. I drove over 2000 miles Saturday-Thursday for work, averaging 6 hours a day windshield time plus working hours, and I was exhausted. I am also half convinced that I contracted scurvy due to the limited dining options in rural America. Needless to say, my running wasn’t great but here goes….

Scheduled
Monday - Off
Tuesday - I 4x1000
Wednesday - Off
Thursday - T 3 miles + R4x200
Friday - Easy 6 miles
Saturday - Easy 7 miles
Sunday - Easy 10

Scheduled
Monday - Off
Tuesday - I 4x1000 Easy 2 - After Sunday’s blow up, I was curious how this would go. I headed to the hotel gym to discover both treadmills were occupied, so I opted to do parking lot loops. I remember it being quite humid but I felt more off than expected so I decided to skip the intervals and just run easy. Even with the easy paces, it felt like I was running myself into the ground a bit so I cut the run short.
Wednesday - Off - A much needed extra day off rest. I started feeling a bit off on this day (see comments about scurvy above) and I hoped it was just allergies and I would feel fine the next day.
Thursday - T 3 miles + R4x200 Off - I woke up around 5am and had to make a decision whether to run or drive. I had at least 5 hours of driving to do so I decided I would get started on the road and run when I arrived if I felt up for it. Well, that 5 hour drive turned into 11 hours and I certainly did not feel up for running.
Friday - Easy 6 3.5 miles - I still didn't feel 100% or even 70% but I thought I should try to get a few miles in. Honestly, the run felt great and I was hopeful that I was back to normal. Unfortunately, that off feeling returned in the evening and I woke up at least a dozen times from terrible muscle cramps in my calves.
Saturday - Easy 7 miles - Since I had gotten such little sleep and was feeling even worse than I had the past few days, I spent nearly all of Saturday on the couch. I tried googling what was causing my calf cramps & tightness but came up short. I used to have this problem several years ago and I was able to resolve it by eating a pickle everyday so I'm guessing some sort of nutrient deficiency... Scurvy?
Sunday - Easy 10 - In light of how I had felt the day before, I took another day of recovery with my eye on the future. I did do an adult thing and went and bought a multivitamin. Usually, I eat healthy enough that I don't really need any supplements but my week on the road proved to be a dietary challenge and with more travel in my future, I figured a multivitamin certainly wouldn't hurt.

Not a great week, but hoping it's just a small blip on my running journey.

Happy running friends!