Rumor: new DVC resort on old River Country grounds, north of WL

[wildernessDad]

Perhaps they'll extend the VWL resort to include this new DVC. Maybe put some GVs in there?

I know, it's probably too far to be an extension, but it was a nice thought.

 

[tjkraz]

I really hope your wrong about DVC at the GF as I think the better bet would be DVC at the Poly from a financial standpoint as I believe they would sell like hotcakes.

Thing is the Poly is the Deluxe resort where Disney has the least trouble selling rooms to the general public. A Poly DVC would sell well but left as cash rooms those units are far more profitable in the long run.

On the other hand, I think the Grand Floridian is the resort most likely to suffer when the Four Seasons hotel finally opens. The GF may be regarded as WDW's most elite destination but it isn't a five star hotel. Some of its current business will undoubtedly be lost to the Four Seasons, giving DVC the opportunity to swoop in.

I do think the Poly will happen eventually. Perhaps some form of new construction. But I don't think Disney is in any rush to make that happen, particularly with the economy still being shaky. When (if!) we really start to turn a corner...that will be a better time to develop at the Poly. Bet they would LOVE to get in the neighborhood of $150 per point for DVC Poly.

 

[jennypenny]

There are two different issues here.

The first issue is Disney's ability to make money building new DVC and selling "memberships" in those resorts. All indications are that this has been very good business for Disney. Not only do the points sell for far more than the cost of building a resort, but Disney is building a huge group of guests who visit WDW year after year. It makes sense that Disney will keep building new DVC resorts at WDW as other DVC resorts at WDW get close to selling out.

The other issue is Disney's ability to rent out DVC rooms to the general public when DVC members turn in their points for Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection, and Concierge Collection. At a time when demand is soft at WDW and Disney needs to resort to promotions to rent out all types of WDW rooms, DVC rooms are not immune.

I realize the issue. I guess my point was that if CRO has too many DVC rooms to rent out (hence the discounts) that must indicate that DVCers are using their points outside of WDW DVC properties--is that correct? And the DCL limits indicate more DVCers trading out to use points for a cruise. This doesn't affect selling new memberships, but maybe shows that demand for DVC hotels at WDW by current members is down.

 

[tjkraz]

I realize the issue. I guess my point was that if CRO has too many DVC rooms to rent out (hence the discounts) that must indicate that DVCers are using their points outside of WDW DVC properties--is that correct?

Maybe, maybe not. Right now DVC has hundreds of unsold units at the Bay Lake Tower, Kidani and Saratoga Springs, in particular. So the rooms available to CRO are not just those which originate with members trading out, but also the unsold units DVC built over the last 3+ years.

As DVC sells out all of its points at BLT, AKV and SSR there will be far fewer rooms given to CRO.

And the DCL limits indicate more DVCers trading out to use points for a cruise. This doesn't affect selling new memberships, but maybe shows that demand for DVC hotels at WDW by current members is down.

In comparison to prior years there may be more people trading out in 2010 and 2011 than in the recent past. But that could have as much to do with the newness of the Disney Dream than anything else. I don't think current members are growing bored with the theme park resorts in any great numbers.

Whatever the case, there is still demand for DVC points and the only way to sell is to build.

 

[PHILCT]

I would rather see luxury free standing deluxe log cabins, not the OLD WEST designs of Disneyland Paris.

They should think luxurious tree houses, there are not enough of them at SSR.

And if you need a studio, how about a free standing T-PEE kind of structure or rooms in a main lodge?

Then theme the resort to have Native American Indian guides, with the art and music of Brother Bear highlighted in the Deluxe DVC resort.

And WALT would have wanted that railroad built, connected to the two boat launches of Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge.

And finally make a Wilderness Version of Storm Along Bay, with simulated rapids in the lazy river ride. A mini waterpark that will also have some of the memories of River Country.

A new resort Restaurant on top of the Resort Lobby. With views of the Water and the Tree Tops.

All Upscale, Not low points, but Deluxe points. No Buffalo Junction.
Maybe Buffalo Wings at the Restaurant though !

Phil

 

[Sammie]

I think DVC at the Grand Floridian will happen but I am not sure they will convert any exisiting rooms as they did at AKL.

AKL, from the day it opened had a hard time keeping all those rooms occupied. That is not the case at the Grand Floridian.

I can't see Disney resort giving up valuable rooms that stay booked to DVC. But who knows stranger things have happened.

If DVC was to take some existing rooms my guess would be Sugar Loaf concierge. For GF concierge guests it is not very popular because it is not in the main building and the views are not as good as other buildings.

I could see them converting Sugar Loaf to DVC concierge and then building an additional building on the land north of the convention center.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

My thoughts are that it would be like the Frontierland area near the Diamond Horseshoe.

 

[carrollchristoph]

I think DVC at the Grand Floridian will happen but I am not sure they will convert any exisiting rooms as they did at AKL.

AKL, from the day it opened had a hard time keeping all those rooms occupied. That is not the case at the Grand Floridian.

I can't see Disney resort giving up valuable rooms that stay booked to DVC. But who knows stranger things have happened.

Agree. This seems like wishful thinking!

 

[peabody58]

Just a side note - when we we're at WDW in '99, River Country was our favorite water park. I understand the reasons for closing it, but it sure was fun. Having a 'clean' pool that mimics the old River Country charm would be great while pool hopping.

 

[hakepb]

I would imagine Disney learned their lesson to not convert floors, but entire wings after the AKL debacle (initially thought they'd only have to close the 4th floor, but had to close entire half's of Jambo)

 

[dbs1228]

I agree. I'm one of the few who would rent the current cabins on points in a heartbeat if they were included with DVC.

Speculating: If DVC is considering such an addition they'd have to come up with a whole new design apart from the cabins (and copying the treehouses wouldn't work as they're all larger villas). The current units are not set up to DVC standards - they have more amenities than a studio (kitchen, 2 double beds and a set of bunkbeds as well as a couch) but they're lacking when compared to even a 1br unit (missing the jacuzzi tub, washer, drier and ... I want to say dishwasher) New cabins would need to be constructed either on a slab foundation or with double wide trailers. I doubt DVC would go with trailers since most members plan on owning for 50 years and the longest I've ever seen a trailer hold up to the elements and rodents has been 38.

I wonder if DVC could create cabins and include them in with VWL much as they did with the additions to SSR. Would it drive up the value of the existing VWL memberships?

I am with you I would for sure buy in to a dvc "cabin" but they do need to improve/upgrade from the current cabins. King size bed, washer and dryer a must! Those double beds in the cabins got smaller and smaller every year (or maybe we just got bigger?) We talk about using our points for the cabins but want to try all properties 1st.

 

[DizDragonfly]

An Old West theme turns me off completely. However a Wilderness Lodge Cabins theme could be very interesting.

 

[Dean]

If DVC is serious about expanding outside of WDW (Hawaii, possibly DC area, etc) they MUST have enough DVC rooms available at WDW to compensate for those off site locations. One of the main reasons to buy DVC is to stay at WDW....imagine if the people who buy points at off site can never get into WDW resorts, the complaints and reputation would take a huge hit. It is one thing not to be able to get your desired resort at 7 months, but imagine if you can't get ANY resort, including OKW/SSR at 7 months.....

I largely disagree and IMO, that's partly the reason that VB and HH were not as successful as anticipated, they relied on WDW to sell those resorts. Obviously it has to be a component but my opinion is that any new resort has to have enough appeal to sell on it's own. However, I think DVC has to take a more aggressive sales approach to be successful with off sites.

 

[keishashadow]

Check with one of the Bus Drivers . . .

they get all their dirt from the boat captains

God forbid you ever cross the campers. Trust me, I know.

oh fine, now im having flashbacks to beans in a can & WL poolhopping conspiracies

What happened to the deadly bacteria that was supposed to infect the ground are water in that area? That was the reason they closed RC in the first place. All of the RC features are still there....just roped off with signs that say it's dangerous water quality. When we did the Wilderness Seque tour, they told how all that came about, and that it was why the infrastructure was still there undesturbed. They were trying to solve the bacterial issue. Evidently it infected the sand and everything. They even had the sandy beach area baracaded off with "unsafe" signs.

jmho bacteria is codeword for gators

I think a Westworld style resort would be interesting, sans gunslinger, of course.

has anybody checked to see if disney secured the rights to yul brynner?

jmho, while the campgrounds are lovely, and the RVs very expensive (moreso than my DVC holdings), it's just not what I expect a DVC resort to represent (although flexibility/choice is good thing) I don't see DVC guests being willing to deal with the bus transportation system in place to navigate FW if you'd have to park in lot & bus to resort.

 

[Tara]

I still say Grand Floridian is first. Though, maybe they can't figure out how to make limited service mousekeeping attractive to the high end guest?

This would surprise me as there are other plots that just seem more likely.

I seriously doubt housekeeping is the thing keeping them from building at GF.

 

[twinklebug]

I seriously doubt housekeeping is the thing keeping them from building at GF.

The GF is Disney's flagship resort. My opinion is that Disney would have to be hard pressed to ever associate it with DVC.

Would I like to see one there? Yes. Will it happen? Extremely doubtful.

Still pushing for VWL cabins! and if any planners are out there... IF the "Old West" style resort concept is on the table... scrap it.. please!

 

[gkrykewy]

Would I like to see one there? Yes. Will it happen? Extremely doubtful.

::shrug:: it's been heavily rumored for awhile now, and seems almost a foregone conclusion at this point. Evidently there's land available to add DVC construction to the GF, but not at the Poly.

 

[JWG]

I seriously doubt housekeeping is the thing keeping them from building at GF.

The GF is Disney's flagship resort. My opinion is that Disney would have to be hard pressed to ever associate it with DVC.

Would I like to see one there? Yes. Will it happen? Extremely doubtful.

Disney would absolutely want to find a way to lock in the theoretical "high society / high spender" group into something committed like DVC. However, that's also the group that would balk at something like lack of mousekeeping (which was just an example, not meant to be "the reason it hasn't happened"). I don't think DVC caters to the 5-star hotel person very well. Yes the villas are nice with more ammenities than your standard room, but not 5-star service nice.

We did see the recent surveys about increased ammenities (like daily mousekeeping), etc. So I do still think the rumors are true. If DVC can figure out how to market a high end DVC option (similar to AKV CL but all rooms), they'll absolutely do so sooner than later.

An opportunity to sell points at a premium, that requires premium points to stay more so than BLT or VGC and with higher maintenance fees? SOLD!

I'm sure it's not if but when and if they had the cost model figured out they'd already have done it. BLT has shown people will pay a premium in both entrance cost and ongoing per stay cost (more points), so I'd expect a GF project to make some headway.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Disney would absolutely want to find a way to lock in the theoretical "high society / high spender" group into something committed like DVC. However, that's also the group that would balk at something like lack of mousekeeping (which was just an example, not meant to be "the reason it hasn't happened"). I don't think DVC caters to the 5-star hotel person very well. Yes the villas are nice with more ammenities than your standard room, but not 5-star service nice.

I don't see the Grand Floridian as being all that different in terms of class of hotel or target audience than BoardWalk Inn or Beach Club. Disney seems to have given up long ago on running the Grand Floridian as a true 5-star property with a Ritz-Carlton or Four Seasons level of service.

The limited housekeeping model works for timeshares because it keeps maintenance fees from going sky high. Optional daily housekeeping is available at DVC resorts to anyone who wants it (for a fee).

The bigger issue at the Grand Floridian is that there's not an available building site between the Monorail track and the Seven Seas Lagoon for a new DVC building. The existing Grand Floridian uses up the whole site. Although a DVC building could be built somewhere near the Grand Floridian, possibly even with a separate lobby like Kidani Village, it must have convenient Monorail access.

 

[mickey&minniealways]

I think if they built dvc at the GF I think I would finaly get DH to buy into it wtithout having to talk him into it.