rude airplane couples?

[RickinNYC]

Please tell me which airlines have seats that recline onto the laps of the person sitting behind.

I've flown on dozens of different airlines, but I must have missed that airline.

Apparently Horace, all the tall folks on this thread are making up stories about their discomfort, myself included? We're delusional? We don't know what we're talking about? Is that what you're saying?

As a tall person, if YOU are comfortable with folks who squish on your kneecaps and have their seat rest a few inches from your face, that's awfully kind of you. But do NOT assume that all tall people are lying and must be looking for something to complain about.

Edited to add that I have also flown more times than I can count. I used to be the typical "flying yuppie" for work and had to fly across the country and up and down the east coast several times per month.

Just remind yourself that your perception is markedly different than other folks. Clearly I'm not the only tall person on this thread that feels differently than you.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Apparently Horace, all the tall folks on this thread are making up stories about their discomfort, myself included? We're delusional? We don't know what we're talking about? Is that what you're saying?

I'm just saying that some people are saying things that are not accurate. I didn't call anyone delusional. Please don't put words in my mouth.

It is inaccurate to say that seat backs recline onto the laps of the person sitting behind. Seat backs in economy recline about 5 or 6 inches at the top of the seat.

At knee level, a reclined seat reduces the often-already-limited knee room by another 1/2 inch or so. I wish that weren't the case, but it is. In a row with a decent seat pitch -- let's say around 34 inches -- it wouldn't make any real difference. Unfortunately, in many cases the seat pitch is only 31 inches.

There may be a few genuine cases where this 1/2 inch reduction forces the person behind into a physically painful position. For most of the rest us, it's just the price we pay for the ability to recline our own seats.

Of course, tall people are uncomfortable in economy. And so are not-so-tall people. I'm tall, and I'm uncomfortable in economy. But there's no reason to expect passengers to keep their seat backs in the even-more-uncomfortable take-off/landing position for the entire flight. The aircraft manufacturers, the seat manufacturers, and the airlines provide reclining seats for a reason. There's also a reason why they only recline a limited distance.

 

[tlbwriter]

There's a very appropriate quote from Miss Manners on the Knee Defender website:

"In the etiquette system, as opposed to the legal system, we deal in courtesies, not rights. The polite person tries to negotiate a compromise that will provide some comfort for all..."

I personally think that should be the last word on this subject (though I know it won't be ). Don't go blathering on about your "right" to recline as far as you damn well please. Yes, everyone knows you have the "right" to recline as far as your seat will go. You also have the "right" to wear gallons of stinky perfume, to talk constantly to those who are trying to read or sleep, and to sing loudly while listening to your iPod. Only selfish and thoughtless people take advantage of some of these "rights." Decent people realize that being packed like sardines isn't fun for anyone, and the only way to minimize discomfort for everyone is to find a compromise between your "rights" and someone else's "needs" (or knees).

I'm sure someone will call me Stalin any minute now... :

 

[RickinNYC]

There's a very appropriate quote from Miss Manners on the Knee Defender website:

"In the etiquette system, as opposed to the legal system, we deal in courtesies, not rights. The polite person tries to negotiate a compromise that will provide some comfort for all..."

I personally think that should be the last word on this subject (though I know it won't be ). Don't go blathering on about your "right" to recline as far as you damn well please. Yes, everyone knows you have the "right" to recline as far as your seat will go. You also have the "right" to wear gallons of stinky perfume, to talk constantly to those who are trying to read or sleep, and to sing loudly while listening to your iPod. Only selfish and thoughtless people take advantage of some of these "rights." Decent people realize that being packed like sardines isn't fun for anyone, and the only way to minimize discomfort for everyone is to find a compromise between your "rights" and someone else's "needs" (or knees).

I'm sure someone will call me Stalin any minute now... :

My thoughts EXACTLY!

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Don't go blathering on about your "right" to recline as far as you damn well please.

What a polite thing to say!

I guess the vast majority of airline passengers, especially on long flights, are "selfish and thoughtless people" because they recline their seats.

 

[brunette8706]

Originally Posted by tlbwriter
Don't go blathering on about your "right" to recline as far as you damn well please.


Horace says: What a polite thing to say!

I guess the vast majority of airline passengers, especially on long flights, are "selfish and thoughtless people" because they recline their seats.

That is not what she is saying at all. It's called courtesy. Like I said before I have long legs and when I'm STUCK in the middle seat with a person's chair reclined all the way back (AGAINST my KNEES) I have a problem. It's plain out rude. Compromise is the key here. I can't stand rude obniouxious people. They think they're the only one riding on the plane. My Lord.

brunette

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

That is not what she is saying at all. It's called courtesy. Like I said before I have long legs and when I'm STUCK in the middle seat with a person's chair reclined all the way back (AGAINST my KNEES) I have a problem. It's plain out rude. Compromise is the key here. I can't stand rude obniouxious people. They think they're the only one riding on the plane. My Lord.

I found it ironic that someone would quote Miss Manners, and then exclaim, "Don't go blathering on about your 'right' to recline as far as you damn well please."

I've done my best to describe accurately how airline seats recline. I've done my best to be polite.

I have long legs, and I'm tall. When reading or resting on an aircraft, leaning my seat back makes me much more comfortable than I would otherwise be. That's why aircraft seats are designed the way they are. I would urge those who seek to prevent others from reclining their seats to consider the comfort of the person sitting in front of you. (In other words, there are two sides to this discussion.) It's not his or her fault that most airlines pack as many seats as possible into the economy cabin.

If the person behind me has a medical reason why the loss of a 1/2 inch of knee room would be a problem, I would certainly respect that.

By the way, quoted from FlyerTalk, here is American Airline's position on Knee Defender, dated February 2004:

Flight attendants may encounter customers using seat-restricting devices, currently available under such brand names as "Knee Defender" (tm) to limit the ability of the seat in front of them to recline.

AA policy prohibits the use of devices that diminish the design function or capability of any aircraft part or component.

Beginning March 15, the following notice will appear in the "Passenger Information" section of American Way:

"American Airlines does not permit the use of any device that could cause damage to existing equipment, or that may diminish the design, function or capability of any aircraft part or component."

This policy will ensure that every customer has the opportunity to use the aircraft's equipment in the manner for which it was designed. ​

Also, please realize that most passengers consider the capability to recline a seat to be desirable. If you go to SeatGuru.com, you'll see that any seats that cannot recline (usually because they are in front of an exit seat or up against a rear wall) are marked as bad seats.

 

[brunette8706]

Horace --

I understand that. But once the seat is leaning with force against my knees I have a problem with that. It's rude and that is when I politely ask if they could compromise and illeviate any pressure against my knees. My Goodness.
Once again, it's common courtesy. Rights and being courteous are two different animals.

 

[JimFitz]

Horace --

I understand that. But once the seat is leaning with force against my knees I have a problem with that. It's rude and that is when I politely ask if they could compromise and illeviate any pressure against my knees. My Goodness.
Once again, it's common courtesy. Rights and being courteous are two different animals.

Leaning with force against your knees??? Are you 7'6"?

 

[inkkognito]

People (at least in my experience) do not take kindly to being asked to lessen their recline, even when they are causing the person behind them pain. My husband has knee problems, and on some aircraft, a fully reclined seat does hit his knees and cause him pain. He has only asked when the seat is actually touching his knees, and the responses have ranged from blank stares and ignoring to outright rudeness/nastiness. The worst was a bimbo who fully recline the moment the plane took off, then had the nerve to tell us to stop talking to each other because we were disturbing her rest. I politely pointed out that there are no regulations against speaking and that her seat was disturbing my husband's knees, and she said rude things that I can't type here. Then, throughout the flight she made it a point to repeatedly recline and bounce the seat (believe me, she got a foot in the back several times for her troubles).

So in answer to what some people have asked on this thread, "Yes, people do believe that their right to recline supercedes the right of the passenger behind them to fly without pain."

Barb

 

[grimley1968]

Leaning with force against your knees??? Are you 7'6"?

I don't see how sarcastic comments like this do anything but drag the debate/conversation down. I believe what the poster was saying about seatbacks hitting her knees, given my experience, since 6'0", my height, isn't exactly Manute Bol-sized for a man. I get banged in the knees plenty by people reclining in their seats, then pushing off them to stand up. I would have gotten hit in the knees if I was 5'6" in these cases.

 

[JimFitz]

Im 6'2" and 250 and have never been hit in the knees when riding coach.

 

[JimFitz]

To everyone who does not like reclining seats, fly first class or drive.

 

[grimley1968]

Im 6'2" and 250 and have never been hit in the knees when riding coach.

Bully for you, then. However, that does not mean it doesn't happen to shorter people, or people who may have sat behind ruder people in re the reclining seats.

To everyone who does not like reclining seats, fly first class or drive.

You're oversimplifying what people are saying about reclining seats. People have complained about the rude PEOPLE who take advantage of them to the extreme, not the seats themselves.

 

[brunette8706]

Sorry Jim-

Why should I pay triple the amount for first class because some person in front of me wants to recline to the further extent? I'm 5'6" 128 pounds, I fly Air Tran and my knees are against the back of the seat. They're impeding on my space. Now, take it I'm not telling them to take the seat all the way up but to compromise so it's a win win situation.

What is so difficult to understand???

Grimley1968 -- Thank you kindly.

Brunette

 

[Aliki]

You're oversimplifying what people are saying about reclining seats. People have complained about the rude PEOPLE who take advantage of them to the extreme, not the seats themselves.

And you aren't? Isn't it equally rude to insist that it's your right to PREVENT someone from reclining their seat?!

You keep bringing courtesy up, but only in the context of not reclining a seat.

What about the courtesy to let people recline them? Some people suffer from severe back problems and need to recline their seat a little. It'd only be courtesy that you allow people to do so, given that the airline chairs are designed to recline!

For the record: I've got incredibly long legs (34" inseam) and I've never flown coach without the seat in front of me squishing my legs, whether they were reclined or not. Yes, with a reclining seat it's harder to get in and out of your seat; but it hardly made a difference whether my knees were crushed or not. They always are.

I just think about the days when I'll be affluent enough to fly business or first class!

 

[grimley1968]

You keep bringing courtesy up, but only in the context of not reclining a seat.

Show me in any of my above posts where I say the word "courtesy". Oh wait, you can't, because I've not once mentioned courtesy. I've also never said no one can not recline their seats, either. Read my posts more carefully. I agree with Brunette, there's no reason there can't be a compromise. You can recline your seat a bit, but please have the courtesy (okay NOW I've said it) of not banging my knees when you push off your reclined seat to get out of it to go to the bathroom, etc.

 

[ducklite]

Sorry Jim-

Why should I pay triple the amount for first class because some person in front of me wants to recline to the further extent? I'm 5'6" 128 pounds, I fly Air Tran and my knees are against the back of the seat. They're impeding on my space. Now, take it I'm not telling them to take the seat all the way up but to compromise so it's a win win situation.

What is so difficult to understand???

Grimley1968 -- Thank you kindly.

Brunette

I'm taller than you (and about the same weight) and never have had a problem with my knees being hit by someone reclining the seat in front of me. Sometimes I have to put my laptop on my lap rather than the tray table--so what? It's called a laptop!

Perhaps you should look into flying carriers who have a bit more pitch. I fly US Air and Continental, and just don't see what all the complaining is about. My 6' husband also has never has his knees banged by someone with a seat in full recline in front of him.

Anne

 

[grimley1968]

I'm taller than you (and about the same weight) and never have had a problem with my knees being hit by someone reclining the seat in front of me. Sometimes I have to put my laptop on my lap rather than the tray table--so what? It's called a laptop!

Perhaps you should look into flying carriers who have a bit more pitch. I fly US Air and Continental, and just don't see what all the complaining is about. My 6' husband also has never has his knees banged by someone with a seat in full recline in front of him.

Anne

Maybe you don't see what the complaining is about, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid complaint on Brunette's part. Maybe she's flying with an airline that has smaller seat spaces and can't switch to bigger planes? Who knows? And I have to be honest, my knees haven't been banged THAT much, but they have been banged at times, and it's because of rude passengers in front of me who push off their reclined seats when standing up, not because of the seats themselves.

What irks me, though, is the rude and condescending attitude some have displayed toward Brunette's, and others', posts. Another poster saying "If reclining seats bother you, then don't fly" doesn't move the conversation forward and totally misses the point of the conversation to boot. I guess that's what got me involved in this thread, even though the topic, to be honest, doesn't really fire me up that much.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

You're oversimplifying what people are saying about reclining seats. People have complained about the rude PEOPLE who take advantage of them to the extreme, not the seats themselves.

But that's what has me puzzled. Some of the posts in this thread suggest that any passengers who recline their seats (in other words, who use their seats as intended by the airline) are, by definition, "rude PEOPLE who take advantage of them to the extreme."

That started with the OP and the topic name of this thread. The couple in front of them simply reclined their seats. That automatically made that couple a "rude airplane couple" as far as the OP was concerned.

I fail to see why a passenger should be classified as rude just because he or she leans back when the captain says, "now, please lean back and enjoy the flight."

Economy seats only have a very limited recline angle, so a passenger can't lean a seat onto the lap of the person behind, even if that passenger wanted to.

Seriously, if anybody really wants to complain about something, complain about the seats or how close the rows are.