Roy, Stan & Save Disney FAIL

Peter Pirate

Its not the end of civilization...But you can see
Joined
Dec 19, 1999
Messages
2,656
Just one year after nearly overthrowing the Disney chief and Board it would appear that most, if not all, disatisfaction with Disney Management is gone. ISS (the Institutional Shareholder Services group) has recommended full support of Eisner and all 12 Board Members at this months annual meeting.

It is well known that any change at Disney will have to be supported by the institutional investors and it appears they have only dollars and cents on their minds. Eisner will survive until his retirement. Roy and Stan will fade into the sunset.

Epilogue: Roy, you were just too late and you didn't do it for the right reasons.

As raidermatt dreams and I (believe it or not) support, hopefully Mr. (Walt) Disney reincarnate will come along soon, otherwise...
pirate:
 
it would appear that most, if not all, disatisfaction with Disney Management is gone

just what vaccum do you live in peter? ISS is more political then you are! Are you a stockholder? If so, how will you cast your ballot this year? Being one myself, I still completely agree with the the SaveDisney concept of witholding my votes for the devil-du-jour, and I will do so again this year. Despite ISS's "proclaimation" I suspect that there will be a measureable volume of both retail and institutional investors giving the loser Ei$ner the heave-ho in their votes this year too!!....time will tell. Roy will "fade" as dimmly as Mr. Toad, Horizons, Song of the South, CoP, and many, many other attractions, films, products, Television programing, merchandise and services the once great Walt Disney Company used to offered to it's millions of fans!

Further, just how do you define "fail"?? Due to Roy's efforts, MILLIONS of people, a year ago and more recently have heightened their awareness on the 'goings-on' within the company. Roy and Stan's efforts caused the greatest shareholder 'revolt' in american corporate history. How can increased dialoge and discussion about and between shareholders of a publically traded company possilby be deemed a failure???
 
Want to make a bet as to whether Eisner is approved this year or if any Board members are not?

Roy was a pretender. He's always been a pretender and for anyone who loved what Walt and Roy's father acheived, supporting Roy, Jr. is lunacy. Roy and Stan's only interest in "saving" Disney were purely personal and financial.

BTW, it's the end of the day and Eisner wins...Again.
pirate:
 

Actually the statement is true.

And how is working to better the company, and it's performance, deemed some purely self-serving action when such work actually benefits all shareholders and not exclusively one's self?
 
Roy and Stan were generally concerned that their slice of the pie under the Eisner regime wasn't as big as it should be, especially should the Comcast deal have gone through. Please note that the only reason either Roy or Stand gave for not supporting the takeover was that they felt Disney was undervalued. No mention of the desire to keep Disney independent.

It's just too telling to note that for years and years Roy supported Eisner and then when Roy perhaps no longer supported Eisner he still simply tolerated the status quo...Not until his job was in jeopardy did he all of a sudden he find 'religion', so to speak.

The only reason anyone pays attention to the ramblings of this man is that his last name happens to be the same as Walt, but IMO, that is where the similiarities end.
pirate:
 
generally concerned that their slice of the pie under the Eisner regime wasn't as big as it should be


At one point falling from $40 to $14 per share, I'd say that's a reasonable concern for anyone who owns the company.

Please note that the only reason either Roy or Stand gave for not supporting the takeover was that they felt Disney was undervalued.

And given what had to change, the very culture of the BoD and Senior management, they knew they had to appeal to the professional investors for support, and this is the only thing those folks care about.

It's just too telling to note that for years and years Roy supported Eisner and then when Roy perhaps no longer supported Eisner he still simply tolerated the status quo

It is telling. Telling to me that since Roy basically is responsible for putting Ei$ner in in the first place he felt responsible for getting him out and; that for the first 10 years things went well, for the next 5-8 Roy saw the once great CEO turning towards a personality of an egomaniac with delusions of being Walt, Roy tried to turn Michael away from that. Sadly, as history demostrates all too well, absolute power corrupts absolutely. When it became perhaps too apparent that Ei$ner had checked his soul into long-term storage, Roy felt he had to act in the only way he could.

The only reason anyone pays attention to the ramblings of this man is that his last name happens to be the same as Walt

That would be your humble opinion, right? ;)
Funny how someone so prone to 'ramblings' produces two oscar nominated films in two years huh?
 
I didn't say he wasn't a good filmaker. This was his one area of expertise and the only area he cared about (IMO). Props to his work in this area to be sure...My rant against Roy's abilities in the previous post (his relationship to Walt) was hyperbolic generalization.
pirate:
 
Peter Pirate said:
It is well known that any change at Disney will have to be supported by the institutional investors and it appears they have only dollars and cents on their minds.
What else should institutional investors have on their minds?
 
Tokyo Disney Seas has illustrated that more Dollars and Cents (Ok - YEN) are the result of providing a more Magical destination.

DCA has illustrated that dressing up a pig and calling it Magical - no matter HOW cheaply it was to build - does NOT result in more Dollars and Cents.

Institutional investors need to care about Dollars and they need to have SENSE about a company and where it is going.

Whether Royz Boyz were only in it for themselves or not - I don't know. But CLEARLY the Big ME is only in it for himself. If Disney Inc doesn't manage to find Senior management that acts more like Walt and less like Michael the institutional investors will end up with a lot less Dollars and Cents to manage.
 
I'm actually more in agreement with Pete on this than one might initially think.

Its hard to really know what's in another man's mind, particularly one whom I've never met, and really, isn't that much of a public figure. But I tend to agree with Pete that Roy's main beef in all of this was how he was treated by Eisner. I think he was justifiably peeved, but that again, his issues were largely about him.

I don't think that was 100% the case, in that I really do think he has had issues with Eisner for quite some time. He (along with Stanley) was the voice of opposition on the board for awhile. But he simply lacked the power to do much about it.

Pete is also right that for the majority of the stockholders, the insitutional investors, its really is about the bottom line. As noted by DB, their's nothing wrong with that, except that they are largely focused on the short term. They also don't really have a true understanding of the business. Sure, they have "industry analysts", but these are largely numbers guys who don't get the true essence of Disney's products. They are the same folks who told us Disney had the new park thing down, and that DCA was going to be a smash. I saw several of them estimate The Incredibles would gross $200 million or perhaps less because of the competition and time of year it was being released. They know how to do calculations, but when it comes to the entertainment business at least, they just don't get it.

But, that aside, Pete's right that if they are supporting Eisner, he's not going to get the kind of negative vote he got last year. That's just a fact of life. And therefore, barring some kind of very significant event, Eisner is safe through the end of his epic-length retirement. (assuming he does truly retire...)

I don't think that's what Roy had in mind. It certainly isn't what we had in mind.

In that respect he failed. Sure, he succeeded in getting an unprecedented withhold vote for Eisner and even Mitchell, but in the end, Eisner was entrenched to the point that he could even withstand that. I doubt any other CEO in the country would have made it through, but Eisner did.

Roy really accomplished two things:

1- He showed you really can successfully stage a shareholder revolt. You had just better be sure that your target isn't so strong that it doesn't matter.

2- He did get a retirement announcement out of Eisner much earlier than would have otherwise happened. Is Eisner actually retiring any sooner than he would have? Good question. Many assumed he was gone when his contract was up. But given the way he has withstood the past year and a half or so, I think that may have been a faulty assumption.

Of course, we might never know for sure, and we also need to make sure the guy actually does retire as announced.


So, bottom line, did Roy and SaveDisney "fail"? Yeah, for the most part. They made some noise, and probably made a few minor tangible changes. But certainly based on what we hoped they'd accomplish, and what they said they'd accomplish, they fell short.

I attribute that as much to Eisner's entrenchment as to Roy's failures. Regardless of Roy's motivation, most would have thought the withhold vote they acheived would have been enough to force more significant changes.

At this point, its clear Roy is done. Eisner has weathered this particular storm.

The only thing I'd take strong issue with is the idea that Roy was always a pretender. From a motivation pov, maybe, maybe not. But from a results pov, certainly he got the job done 21 years ago, bringing us the Eisner/Wells team. Unfortunately, the Frankenstein that developed has gotten out of control.
 
did Roy and SaveDisney "fail"? Yeah, for the most part. They made some noise, and probably made a few minor tangible changes. But certainly based on what we hoped they'd accomplish, and what they said they'd accomplish, they fell short.


Well, in my book, anytime an 'ant' can push an 'elephant' uphill; if only by a fraction of an inch, that's a sucess not a failure.

When one considers not only the largest 'revolt' in corporate history, but the sheer number of institutional groups that demanded meetings with Ei$ner and his crew, the countless hours of media coverage and public discussions on corporate ethics and governance all as a result of the Save Disney effort, I find it difficult to label it anything other than sucessful. While not every dream has been realized, the 'fat lady' has yet to sing. ;)
 
Roy and Stan did the right thing. They were trying to preserve the Disney magic and save the company. I have so much respect for them for doing what they did. Eisner just doesn't get it. Even Roy was responsible for Eisner getting the job and then Michael stabs him in the back.

Keep the dream alive Roy and Stan. All true Disney fans appreciate what you're doing.

:banana:
 
King, I kind of resent being told I'm not a "true Disney fan" because I believe differently than you. I just don't think Roy had Walt's dream in mind when he started his dissent. You do. That's OK, but please don't think I'm not a true Disney fan for thinking otherwise.
pirate:
 
From what I understood, Roy worked for quite a while behind the scenes before his dissent became public. I don't know about Stan but I think that it's reasonable to assume that we don't know all of the goings-on at Disney.

Besides, even if Roy was in it ONLY for the money, it did appear that he felt that creativity and keeping the company at a certain standard would make the company more successful than the current status quo. I see nothing wrong with wanting success but it would be nice if it was done the right way.
 
Matt- I think this encapsulates everything nicely:
....certainly he got the job done 21 years ago, bringing us the Eisner/Wells team. Unfortunately, the Frankenstein that developed has gotten out of control.

I am not convinced one way or another that Roy was a pretender.
 
Well, I happen to suspect that the Comcast powerplay was a tactical maneuver prompted by the Boyz. For that, I will forever remain suspect of their motive and true dedication toward the company.

Roy and Stan deserve the credit Matt gives them. Eisner's announcement was big and the vote was unprecedented.

So are they failures? Yes.

because their campaign was to save disney, and the only solution they gave in order to accomplish this was calling for the removal of Eisner.

Well, Eisner's still there - the only real change that took place was Roy and Stan being completely removed from the company. That's not a victory.

DVC Convert, the mere fact that Roy is an "ant" in your analogy puts the whole post-Walt era in perspective.

And Matt, given that Frankenstein (the monster) was created by a mad scientist, concerns me.
 
because their campaign was to save disney, and the only solution they gave in order to accomplish this was calling for the removal of Eisner.

How is one not accomplishing the other?


Well, Eisner's still there - the only real change that took place was Roy and Stan being completely removed from the company.

Don't overlook more transparency in reporting board member's financial relationships, a public announcemment by Ei$ner of a time of his departure (as opposed to CEO for life), a vast increase in shareholder scrutiny of the company and it's management, the appointment of more legitimate independent directors.



DVC Convert, the mere fact that Roy is an "ant" in your analogy puts the whole post-Walt era in perspective

My analogy was intended to illustrate Ei$ner comparative overwhelming entrenched powerbase, and to show the incredible force necessary to budge him/it
 
Peter, you rusty old pirate you. pirate: Roy really was trying to save the Disney magic. Michael Eisner fired many of the imagineers who made Disney great. All you have to do is look at all the mistakes Michael made in the late 90's. Go to SaveDisney.com and you'll see why Roy is fighting to keep Walt's vision alive. How many Dumbo ride clones can you take just because Eisner can build those cheaper and boost his own stock options? Oh Peter, don't get me started. :drinking1

Anyone who thinks Roy doesn't love Disney and doesn't understand Walt's vision is living in a different world. :rotfl2:

True Disney Fans Unite!! Let's all celebrate that we all love Disney. Keep the Magic Alive!!!

:dancer: :dancer: :dancer: :dancer: :dancer:
 












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