Roxymama's 5k to Marathon, Time to Collect Another Castle

[roxymama]

Alert Alert Kate Spade has another surprise sale today. https://surprise.katespade.com/ks-view-all

I'm being good since I'm still in the honeymoon phase with my current purse-baby.

Sadly, no disney purses again this time (womp womp.)

 

[ZellyB]

Alert Alert Kate Spade has another surprise sale today. https://surprise.katespade.com/ks-view-all

I'm being good since I'm still in the honeymoon phase with my current purse-baby.

Sadly, no disney purses again this time (womp womp.)

I just got that email and immediately went to look. I'm also still loving my current baby, but am sorely tempted by a couple on there!!

 

[roxymama]

I just got that email and immediately went to look. I'm also still loving my current baby, but am sorely tempted by a couple on there!!

I'd tell you to "stay strong", but that's not like me. Mwahahahaha

(did you see the chocolate covered strawberry stuff? cuuuuuuuute)

 

[ZellyB]

I'd tell you to "stay strong", but that's not like me. Mwahahahaha

(did you see the chocolate covered strawberry stuff? cuuuuuuuute)

YES!! There's actually a wallet there that I think would go really well with our purse. And, my current wallet actually is falling apart, so I could totally convince myself that it's a reasonable purchase to make.

 

[roxymama]

YES!! There's actually a wallet there that I think would go really well with our purse. And, my current wallet actually is falling apart, so I could totally convince myself that it's a reasonable purchase to make.

Drat, my wallet is in good condition.

 

[rteetz]

That medal is huge! Maybe I need to come down to Chicago and run it.

 

[roxymama]

(Pic should be titled "Running shorts don't always need to be ran in!")

Back from our annual lake vacations and I had a ton of fun AND ran with my hubby despite the crazy heat and humidity. I'll post all about that soon after I finish relaxing post-vacation unpacking ....we've all done that right?



Gonna catch up on the running thread for a lil bit. I have a blind long run to do today before dark once the temp is more reasonable. So stay tuned for how I do. I'll be lone-wolfing that run on my home turf after all.

And finally, here's my souvenir...they opened up a new outdoorsy place inside the old bank at our lake town and my hubby told me he found me the perfect hat. I went and saw it and agreed.

Gonna be easy to spot me at races with this bright and sunny thing on my noggin. Oh and I got a camp mug, cause I've never seen a mug I didn't want. Mmmmmm fake-camping-coffee at my desk tomorrow

 

[roxymama]

Back from my blind long run. (Well a few hours ago...had to finish vacation laundry before posting...ugh)

First I'll just preface this with my 6 mile run on Thursday with the hubby at our lake town was a real struggle bus to get down to where I was supposed to be for tempo. My body wanted to run at 12 mile pace but I just kept plowing onward and willing it. I'd attribute it to a loooong day with the wrong kind of hydration (or right kind depending on your take) the day before plus crazy humidity plus hills plus the wrong time of month makes my legs feel heavy (my ladies here will understand.). We ended up at 5.6 miles btw. We were back at our cabin and we just ended it there. I felt bad for holding my hubby back on the slower portions but he said it actually helped him feel good for the entire run. So then I felt less guilty about it. I was happy to run in our lazy lake town with my man but the pace was a struggle.

Lots of walking and swimming in between and now to my 4 mile blind run today. I sat on my behind almost the whole day...so running later was me earning the previous lay-around&nap lazy day back home. I went out at 4ish instead of waiting until later because the forecast started showing rain at 5. Of course it didn't rain, my hubby got 6.2 miles in after I came home and it still hasn't rained. So my run was during about 84 degrees and a lot of sunny/no shade/humidity...yay!?
And then I ran 4 miles with a blocked screen and only buzzing to tell me how far I'd gone. It is liberating but also I tend to overthink during blind runs so I tried to not do that too much this time. I listened to Disney park music (rides and music from the night shows) on Spotify. Liked it better than the rundisney playlists.
And it felt better than my struggle bus run on Thursday! Hooray! Felt stronger and more rythmic. In my head I'd have said that I was pretty consistent, if not a little faster during mile 2 which I attempted to correct, hoping I wasn't screwing something up. I didn't feel too fast but I felt faster than the real easy warmup paces. So I thought I maybe did a good job?
I felt a little less good after I got in the house and saw my bright red face and felt real thirsty...I had some Gatorade. It took me awhile to stop sweating, etc. (had to edit this, my autocorrect said swearing instead of sweating...I def. was not swearing!!) my hubby had asked how I did and my watch said 4 miles in 44 min...and I thought perfect! And then I re-mathed in my head and said wait that's like one min per mile too fast. I was supposed to be at 11:48ish per mile. And heres the splits. Ignore the last 35 sec of me standing in my yard

Anyone know what's up with moving time vs regular time? Can I attribute that to some jogging in place at intersections since it was heavy traffic time.

Ok so just gonna say it. This is unexpected. I sucked on Thursday. how did I run "fast" today? I felt better today so I assumed I'd be slower than tempo. GPS issue or am I just in better shape than I thought? Or am I so used to this terrible weather that I have finally learned to just run in it? I dunno. What says you internet people? @DopeyBadger I know there is no wrong or right, but what do you think? I'd say it felt fine during the run but I was pretty spent once I got finished.

Should I be happy with this or did I overdue it and failed to notice?

 

[SarahDisney]

Ok so just gonna say it. This is unexpected. I sucked on Thursday. how did I run "fast" today? I felt better today so I assumed I'd be slower than tempo. GPS issue or am I just in better shape than I thought? Or am I so used to this terrible weather that I have finally learned to just run in it? I dunno. What says you internet people? @DopeyBadger I know there is no wrong or right, but what do you think? I'd say it felt fine during the run but I was pretty spent once I got finished.

I think that if you were fine during the run, you're probably okay. Some days you're going to be slower than you want to be, and some days you'll be faster. As long as you can get through the run feeling okay, I think it's okay to run a little faster sometimes. As long as you don't feel like you're pushing too hard.
But I'm certainly no expert, so I'm not sure that you should be listening to what I say.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Moving time = Time the device believes you are moving
Time = The actual time between splits/intervals

The device makes a judgement as to whether it "believes" you are still moving during the entire duration of the run. If it doesn't believe you "moved" then it removes that time from the overall actual time. I'd say in almost all cases, don't trust it. I very rarely stop moving and am running 7-8 min/mile, yet I seem to always have a discrepancy in my times as well. The actual time is the one that matters.

If you believe it could be a GPS issue, then attempt to zoom in on your running path on the map online. If you find that your actual path you traveled deviates significantly (like it thinks you ran in backyards and in lakes/rivers), then it could be a GPS issue. However compare this run to other maps to see if the GPS discrepancy is common or uncommon to your typical path before judging this one run. With all that being said, I would say given the consistency of your pacing, that this is likely not a GPS issue.

So the key is: Do you feel this long run effort of 4 miles matched your previous effort outputs for a long run pace? Do you feel as if you could have run one more mile at this pace?

Your goal pace was an 11:48, yet you ran an average 10:52. So was this an improvement on your fitness or a misjudgment on the effort? Probably a combination of the two. These would be your matching paces/PRs for someone with a long run pace of 10:52:



So, I'd venture to guess that you have made some fitness improvements in the recent training cycle (as you've noted with many of the other runs seeming to be easy), but that it might be a stretch to say you're at the fitness level right now for a 10:52 long run pace.

Do you feel as if we need to bump up your paces slightly? Like to a 9:28 5K pace (like your February 5K time). You're still 9 weeks out so we could do another fitness test if you feel we need to re-assess your current training paces. Thoughts?

 

[ZellyB]

Cute shot on the flamingo!!!

I'm not going to attempt to out DopeyBadger @DopeyBadger , so I'll just say good job on your run and leave it at that.

 

[roxymama]

I think that if you were fine during the run, you're probably okay. Some days you're going to be slower than you want to be, and some days you'll be faster. As long as you can get through the run feeling okay, I think it's okay to run a little faster sometimes. As long as you don't feel like you're pushing too hard.
But I'm certainly no expert, so I'm not sure that you should be listening to what I say.

It is kind of weird how from one day to the next I can go from feeling like I'm running in sand to running on air. I would say that so far I'm better at nailing the blind runs going at my tempo (because I know I'm giving a lot) or my easy paces (because I know how to not give a lot) but my long run was a little harder to figure out blind since it's in that in between area. I think I need to pay a little better attention to the feeling of the long runs and it didn't help that my past run was so bad that it may have skewed what "good and not good" should feel like. I think Dopeybadger's assessment helped a lot in me thinking about this....which leads me to....

Moving time = Time the device believes you are moving
Time = The actual time between splits/intervals

The device makes a judgement as to whether it "believes" you are still moving during the entire duration of the run. If it doesn't believe you "moved" then it removes that time from the overall actual time. I'd say in almost all cases, don't trust it. I very rarely stop moving and am running 7-8 min/mile, yet I seem to always have a discrepancy in my times as well. The actual time is the one that matters.

If you believe it could be a GPS issue, then attempt to zoom in on your running path on the map online. If you find that your actual path you traveled deviates significantly (like it thinks you ran in backyards and in lakes/rivers), then it could be a GPS issue. However compare this run to other maps to see if the GPS discrepancy is common or uncommon to your typical path before judging this one run. With all that being said, I would say given the consistency of your pacing, that this is likely not a GPS issue.

So the key is: Do you feel this long run effort of 4 miles matched your previous effort outputs for a long run pace? Do you feel as if you could have run one more mile at this pace?

Your goal pace was an 11:48, yet you ran an average 10:52. So was this an improvement on your fitness or a misjudgment on the effort? Probably a combination of the two. These would be your matching paces/PRs for someone with a long run pace of 10:52:

View attachment 190612

So, I'd venture to guess that you have made some fitness improvements in the recent training cycle (as you've noted with many of the other runs seeming to be easy), but that it might be a stretch to say you're at the fitness level right now for a 10:52 long run pace.

Do you feel as if we need to bump up your paces slightly? Like to a 9:28 5K pace (like your February 5K time). You're still 9 weeks out so we could do another fitness test if you feel we need to re-assess your current training paces. Thoughts?

Thank you for the breakdown of what moving vs not moving on a GPS means. I would say my official race times almost always match closing to the total time and not the "moving time" so that makes a lot of sense. My map seems like there aren't any weird breaks...the only oddity would be a moment of 7:30 pace but that was clearly when I was crossing the busiest street in town and I doubt lasted more than just those moments.

So to answer your questions now that I've stepped away from the run.
A) I had been struggling to not run my LR at around 11:15 because that was my LR pace for so long. So I had on purpose been trying to slow myself on the LR a bit and was working at it. Don't know that my new LR pace has totally clicked yet. And I honestly felt like my effort was slower than tempo (which it was in reality) but I would have guessed it was more between 11:20+ through 11:48 if you had asked me before I looked at results. Maybe not the second half of mile two where I did feel like I was going too close to what tempo felt like and backed off. I guess I didn't back off enough though.
B) Yes, I could have run another mile at that pace (10:52 let's say.) I'd venture to guess I could run another one on top of that. But neither would get faster is my guess. I do not know at what point I would have gotten too exhausted to keep at it...but it the moment, yes I think another couple miles would have been fine.
C) Those 5k and 10k paces seem waaaaaaay fast for me. Is it because I've haven't pushed myself to try to attempt them anytime recently...do I really know if I could??????? Unknown. Maybe a fitness test is a good idea since this really could have been a fluke of my body or my brain. There is a 5k on Labor Day that I'm still waffling on running or not while I'm in St. Louis for a family thing. The waffling is more for logistics of who would be watching my kiddo, and hotel check out time, and the non-run related stuff that comes with travel. So if I do happen to be able to run it...should I just push myself to go all out to see what happens. There's a chance I do not run it though, so then what's the best fitness test if I don't run that race?
D) Could yesterday just have been a fluke...since Thursday sucked so bad, maybe yesterday's run just felt so much better in relation to the suck-fest the previous run?

I think my final thoughts are that my telling 10:30ish to 11:30ish apart is really tough for me for whatever reason. I can tell you when I think I'm running 9:30 or 10 (because the effort is so much MORE) or 12-13+ (opposite reason), but it's the middle I'm not great at telling.

I feel like I both passed a test and failed it at the same time...but I know it wasn't a test that you can pass or fail, haha.

 

[DopeyBadger]

A) I had been struggling to not run my LR at around 11:15 because that was my LR pace for so long. So I had on purpose been trying to slow myself on the LR a bit and was working at it. Don't know that my new LR pace has totally clicked yet. And I honestly felt like my effort was slower than tempo (which it was in reality) but I would have guessed it was more between 11:20+ through 11:48 if you had asked me before I looked at results. Maybe not the second half of mile two where I did feel like I was going too close to what tempo felt like and backed off. I guess I didn't back off enough though.
B) Yes, I could have run another mile at that pace (10:52 let's say.) I'd venture to guess I could run another one on top of that. But neither would get faster is my guess. I do not know at what point I would have gotten too exhausted to keep at it...but it the moment, yes I think another couple miles would have been fine.
C) Those 5k and 10k paces seem waaaaaaay fast for me. Is it because I've haven't pushed myself to try to attempt them anytime recently...do I really know if I could??????? Unknown. Maybe a fitness test is a good idea since this really could have been a fluke of my body or my brain. There is a 5k on Labor Day that I'm still waffling on running or not while I'm in St. Louis for a family thing. The waffling is more for logistics of who would be watching my kiddo, and hotel check out time, and the non-run related stuff that comes with travel. So if I do happen to be able to run it...should I just push myself to go all out to see what happens. There's a chance I do not run it though, so then what's the best fitness test if I don't run that race?
D) Could yesterday just have been a fluke...since Thursday sucked so bad, maybe yesterday's run just felt so much better in relation to the suck-fest the previous run?

I think my final thoughts are that my telling 10:30ish to 11:30ish apart is really tough for me for whatever reason. I can tell you when I think I'm running 9:30 or 10 (because the effort is so much MORE) or 12-13+ (opposite reason), but it's the middle I'm not great at telling.

I feel like I both passed a test and failed it at the same time...but I know it wasn't a test that you can pass or fail, haha.

A) I've noticed you've been struggling to go too slow on the long run. So, I'm terribly surprised by the blind run result.
B) That's good to hear and an important factor.
C) It's entirely possible that you could get close to those times. I'd say it might be a reach to meet/exceed them, but I'd say definitely in your realm. In either case you could plan on racing a 5K on labor day. Either officially or unofficially for the intent of assessing your current fitness level.
D) Entirely possible. But if it sucked as much as you said, then it probably took more out of you than a normal Thursday run. So, it could all even out in the end.

It comes with time and more effort based evaluations at all different levels. But it's generally easier (as you note) to tell the difference between fast and faster, than it is between medium and medium'er.

Do you remember this conversation on August 10th?

As I've talked about in the past, the blind run is neither inherently good or bad, but merely an assessment on your ability to blind pace. I'd say you did well. You self corrected your easy pace after the first mile without looking realizing that it didn't "feel" right. That is exactly the point. The fact that mile 2 was perfect and mile 3 was too fast is merely your body settling into pace. I'd venture to guess if your mile 3 was an honest attempt at EA pace then the 12:12 is probably the most accurate of the three miles to the EA effort. I won't bother to tell you at this point what that means until we get further into training (SECRETS!). Just keep doing the blind runs honestly and they will act as a window into your abilities.

And didn't anyone teach you that secrets are no fun?

Well, here's the secret. You've done two blind runs in a row now that both suggest your pacing need to be increased. Your fitness level is beyond our guess based on your 5K/10K in July and 5K from February. So as I stated then your 12:12 pace was likely close to your EA pace given your blind run. And this week's 10:52 was likely close to your long run pace, but maybe a tad too fast. However based on your assessment of your ability to run 1-2 more miles, I'd say it's actually closer that we thought.

So here are your paces currently and for a 12:12 EA vs a 10:52 LR:



So my suggestion based on seeing these paces, is to switch your paces to the 12:12 Easy A chart for the remainder of the 9 weeks in training for the 15K. Which makes your new 15K tempo goal pace a 9:42 min/mile. I'm splitting the difference between your current paces and the 10:52 long run paces with the one in the middle because I'm risk adverse. I always try to err on the side of not getting injured vs the glory of an extra few seconds/minutes off my goal time. Thus, you could probably handle the 10:52 LR paces, but the 12:12 Easy A is safer.

You could chose to do the fitness test on Labor Day, but you have two very consistent blind runs suggesting the same relative training pace range. I'm not sure you need to do the Labor day 5k after seeing these blind runs up against each other. Hence, secrets?!?! There are two reasons to do "blind" running. It allows you to teach yourself honest effort assessment mid-run. AND it allows me to see and check up on your progress as to whether we need to change the pacing. I don't like to change the pacing often, but in this case it appears justified.

Thoughts?

Attached is the remainder of your training plan with the new paces. No changes have been made to any of the mileage because the durations still fall close to the original intent.

 

[roxymama]

@DopeyBadger Sheesh, if I had known this was the outcome I would have sandbagged my blind run (I KID! I KID!!!!)

But now I'll have to re-do my colored pen chart for my fridge
(Actually I totally am going to re-do it though because who doesn't love using colored pens.)

Really, I am game though. Hopefully going with the middle set of numbers will be easier to stick to and attain than that fast outing I had yesterday. And if I really am ready to be faster, I guess we will find out right? And if I suck at being faster than I guess we have 9 weeks to tinker. Hoping the weather getting better helps everything as well. Praying for that.
I will be super happy to not have to go over 13+mile pace now on the easy days, but I will likely curse myself and you for the first tempo run day. But if my body lets me do it, I will feel like a rockstar for doing it. It's not like I haven't done it before in previous training, just shorter total mileage. So I guess, let's just see what happens. I'm thinking positive.

Also, now I'm slightly scared for any other hidden tricks and secrets you may be squirrelying away (I KID again...sort of)

 

[DopeyBadger]

Also, now I'm slightly scared for any other hidden tricks and secrets you may be squirrelying away (I KID again...sort of)

WHO ME?!?!?!

 

[roxymama]

Ok, so here's my new week at a glance.

Monday 8/29: Bachelor in Paradise mind-jello. Perfect timing as getting caught up with work and family stuff after vacation is like doing a brain-tempo-run for 9 hours.
Tuesday 8/30: 4 miles @ new EB 11:24
Wednesday 8/31: day off
Thursday 9/1: OMG SEPT ALREADY??? 1.5 mi WU (new 12:58 which is literally where my WU were landing so much anyways, so I should not have to change too much what I'm doing for the WU & CD), 3 mi new Tempo 9:42 (EEP...but I will do it...I know I can...wish me all luck), 1.5 mi CD 12:58
Friday 9/2: day off
Weekend: 6 mi LR new 11:01 (I can do it!)
Monday 9/5 Labor Day 5k is still a toss-up. TBD, dependent on so many things.

Now that my paces are a bit more aggressive I'm going to really really really focus on trying to stay as close to them as I can to maximize my training. Wish me luck this week! Mixture of Eeeeek & Yay

 

[DopeyBadger]

Ok, so here's my new week at a glance.

Monday 8/29: Bachelor in Paradise mind-jello. Perfect timing as getting caught up with work and family stuff after vacation is like doing a brain-tempo-run for 9 hours.
Tuesday 8/30: 4 miles @ new EB 11:24
Wednesday 8/31: day off
Thursday 9/1: OMG SEPT ALREADY??? 1.5 mi WU (new 12:58 which is literally where my WU were landing so much anyways, so I should not have to change too much what I'm doing for the WU & CD), 3 mi new Tempo 9:42 (EEP...but I will do it...I know I can...wish me all luck), 1.5 mi CD 12:58
Friday 9/2: day off
Weekend: 6 mi LR new 11:01 (I can do it!)
Monday 9/5 Labor Day 5k is still a toss-up. TBD, dependent on so many things.

Now that my paces are a bit more aggressive I'm going to really really really focus on trying to stay as close to them as I can to maximize my training. Wish me luck this week! Mixture of Eeeeek & Yay

I could wish you good luck, but I don't think you need it. I know you can hit these paces! You've got this!

 

[Ariel484]

You so speedy! You can totally do this!

 

[ZellyB]

That looks like a great new schedule! Can't wait to hear how you do with it. I know you'll kill it!!

 

[roxymama]

You so speedy! You can totally do this!

That looks like a great new schedule! Can't wait to hear how you do with it. I know you'll kill it!!

I hope you guys are right. I've always had the internal struggle of both wanting to go further and faster but at the same time worried I am going to fast and too far/questioning my ability. If that makes any sense. Being competitive and risk-adverse all wrapped up into a shiny confusing package.
So at least I know there is some science and math backing up that I can do this. Gonna try my best And if it sucks, then I will be honest about it.

And I get to watch night two of bachelor stupidity once I'm done with my run. Hoping this new easy pace is a happy place

Now, I just have to do my reverse rain-dance so I can run outside tonight instead of on the treadmill.