Roger Clemens Is Indicted in Performance Drug Case

[dejr_8]

This is such a bad time for baseball. So many cheaters. Then you have people like Griffey Jr and Thome who did it legally and seem somewhat overlooked. Thome is closing in on 600 HRs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/sports/baseball/20clemens.html?_r=1

Federal authorities have indicted Roger Clemens on charges of making false statements to Congress about his use of performance-enhancing drugs.

more at the link

 

[okeydokey]

So stupid. It's bad enough to take the stuff to lie under oath about it, it gets so much worse for him. Did he think he would never get caught? Such ego.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

How shocking! Sports figures using performance drugs.

 

[bicker]

So stupid. It's bad enough to take the stuff to lie under oath about it, it gets so much worse for him. Did he think he would never get caught? Such ego.

Well, I guess you're ineligible to sit on his jury!

 

[DrCavin]

It would be nice if someone indicted Congress for all of their lies to us

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I really don't know what's more disgusting, the fact that these guys cheated for so many years, or the fact that they thought they could lie about it, under oath?

 

[brerrabbit]

The stupid part is that he made this situation for himself First I think we can all pretty much agree that he took the drugs. Then after he was accused and wanted to clear his name he went and testified volentarily. He was not under a suponea to appear. Third he then went and lied about what he had done which lead to the indictment.

I have people I know that played against him and with him in Jr. College and College and said even then his attitude was pretty much that he could do no wrong. So from that standpoint and the fact that he did this to himself I have zero sympathy for the guy.

 

[bicker]

The stupid part is that he made this situation for himself

Without condoning anything Clemens has done, I don't think MLB and MLB fans escape all responsibility here. The push to excel, and the money that fans pump into the industry, are at the root of the problem. Why is so much money at stake? And why is so much money made available to specific individuals? This is a reflection of a societal ill, here, and it manifests not only in abuses like that which Clemens is accused of, but all over our society. But it all starts with regular folks, members of the general public, practicing values that motivate bad behavior.

First I think we can all pretty much agree that he took the drugs.

I'm an American, so I rather feel like seeing the evidence to prove that, first, if you don't mind, or barring that, conviction by a jury of peers who were able to see such evidence. It's kind-of our way.

I have people I know that played against him and with him in Jr. College and College and said even then his attitude was pretty much that he could do no wrong.

So perhaps it goes back to high schools spending too much attention on varsity sports and too little attention on more "mundane" aspects of the educational mission, like perhaps mathematics and literature?

So from that standpoint and the fact that he did this to himself I have zero sympathy for the guy.

AFIAC, he should never have been important enough for it to ever be an issue of whether or not to have sympathy for him.

 

[brerrabbit]

I live in the Houston area where he grew up, and there are many who have sympathy for him and believe him innocent, I am not one of them.

I have been involved with baseball my entire life at some level from playing, to coaching, to administration, to being a fan.

I am not a fan of professional baseball and do not support it at all. I have not paid to attend a professional game in over 30 years and will never.

I am completely aware that in America we are innocent till proven guilty and am fine with that.

That said regardless of what a jury does or does not say about his guilt having watched and coached baseball for so many years I know what an atheletes body is subjected to and what improvements they can make with exercise and the proper fitness regime. The later in life development of people like Clements and Barry Bonds lead me to believe that there were drugs involved.

I have three kids I coached over the years in MLB today and many more playing or having played in college and have told every one of them I will know if they ever use steroids and will hunt them down and do terrible things to them if they ever go that route.

He sets a terrible example and while you say that fans can be blammed and the sport itself is to blame, I don't buy it. I have seen what dedication and hard work can do firsthand and will never accept that the use of performance enhancing drugs have any place in the sport.

By the way be sure and watch what baseball was meant to be as the Little League World Series starts this Friday in Williamsport, PA. Pearland Little League will be competing as the winners of the US Southwest Regionals. It will be on ESPN with Pearlands first game Friday at 2:00 pm vs the Midwest Regional winner.

 

[bicker]

He sets a terrible example and while you say that fans can be blammed and the sport itself is to blame, I don't buy it.

I think a lot of people would react negatively to what I pointed out, because it indicts their own actions and values. However, I don't see, either in your comments or that of others, which I've read, a substantive rebuttal to what I highlighted - I typically see a blanket refusal to address the point about how our society's values motivate bad behavior, contributing to the problem. As long as society refuses to take responsibility for its role, why should we expect anyone within society to take such responsibility for their own role?

I have seen what dedication and hard work can do firsthand and will never accept that the use of performance enhancing drugs have any place in the sport.

I don't disagree, but that's not the issue I raised, that you responded to.

 

[brerrabbit]

As to the first point, I can not control society as a whole and what they do to support MLB. I can only do what I do, which is not attend games, not watch any games on TV, not buy any MLB merchandise. I in no way support what it has become. Ask any body that knows me and I will tell you I dislike professional sports of all kinds because of what it has become. I strongly support amature sports because of my love of the game and always will. I support in person and finacially Little League, youth football, lacrosse, and high school sports of all kinds. As for society's support I can only do so much.

I am asummin g your second comment speaks to guilt/ innocense and as I stated before I understand and support the America justice system I believe from experience and history he did take the drugs. Regardless of the system I will always believe that.

 

[bimshire]

Well, it is about time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bonds has been put through the ringer simply because he never cared for the media. So they put him through the ringer. But Clemens has been their boy, so to speak. Let's see if there will be any fairness now that the indictment has been handed down.

If an asterisk is forever place next to Bonds' accomplishments, then one needs to go next to Clemens' accomplishments TOO.

 

[dejr_8]

Well, it is about time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bonds has been put through the ringer simply because he never cared for the media. So they put him through the ringer. But Clemens has been their boy, so to speak. Let's see if there will be any fairness now that the indictment has been handed down.

If an asterisk is forever place next to Bonds' accomplishments, then one needs to go next to Clemens' accomplishments TOO.

Not completely true. I think Bonds was put through the ringer because he was so obviously a steroid user (pumpkin head). Oh sorry I forgot it was Barry's Ash Bats that helped him hit all those HRs.

 

[JennaTX]

I live in the Houston area where he grew up, and there are many who have sympathy for him and believe him innocent, I am not one of them.

I have been involved with baseball my entire life at some level from playing, to coaching, to administration, to being a fan.

I am not a fan of professional baseball and do not support it at all. I have not paid to attend a professional game in over 30 years and will never.

I am completely aware that in America we are innocent till proven guilty and am fine with that.

That said regardless of what a jury does or does not say about his guilt having watched and coached baseball for so many years I know what an atheletes body is subjected to and what improvements they can make with exercise and the proper fitness regime. The later in life development of people like Clements and Barry Bonds lead me to believe that there were drugs involved.

I have three kids I coached over the years in MLB today and many more playing or having played in college and have told every one of them I will know if they ever use steroids and will hunt them down and do terrible things to them if they ever go that route.

He sets a terrible example and while you say that fans can be blammed and the sport itself is to blame, I don't buy it. I have seen what dedication and hard work can do firsthand and will never accept that the use of performance enhancing drugs have any place in the sport.

By the way be sure and watch what baseball was meant to be as the Little League World Series starts this Friday in Williamsport, PA. Pearland Little League will be competing as the winners of the US Southwest Regionals. It will be on ESPN with Pearlands first game Friday at 2:00 pm vs the Midwest Regional winner.

I completely agree with your post. He went to my high school and later came back to a pep rally, I was so impressed and proud that he went to my school, not so much anymore.

I love sports, but IMO Texas is one of the worst about putting sports ahead of anything else in school, especially football.

Hope your Pearland Little League wins!

 

[bicker]

As to the first point, I can not control society as a whole and what they do to support MLB. I can only do what I do, which is not attend games, not watch any games on TV, not buy any MLB merchandise.

Beyond that, all any of us can do is encourage others to do the same.

I strongly support amature sports because of my love of the game and always will.

A lot of the seeds of this issue are planted in the guise of varsity high school sports. How do we wean society off of its penchant to build heroes out of people who play sports well?

 

[Por1968]

How do we wean society off of its penchant to build heroes out of people who play sports well?

A lot of people enjoy watching sports and rooting for their favorite teams or players. If you don't enjoys sports, that is fine but who are you to tell society what they should do?

 

[bballmom56]

It would be nice if someone indicted Congress for all of their lies to us

Agreed.

I don't understand why this ended up before Congress at all. It doesn't belong at that level.

 

[happygirl]

I think Congress has a lot more important things to deal with then this.

 

[bicker]

A lot of people enjoy watching sports and rooting for their favorite teams or players. If you don't enjoys sports, that is fine but who are you to tell society what they should do?

Just read any ten threads in this forum and you'll see at least twenty different posters telling society what they should do. Regardless, I didn't say anything close to what you've alleged. What I wrote was, "How do we wean society off of its penchant to build heroes out of people who play sports well?" You seem to have overlooked the portion I have now put in bold, and that portion of the sentence is critical. In the message you replied to, and the messages that preceded it, I outlined how this conduct on the part of many in society causes damage to society overall.