ROFR Discussion Thread

[Sandisw]

I feel like 1-2 year ago there was a long saga here about a member who was battling with Fidelity to get proper reimbursement for lost points and it took him a while to get traction (and public shaming) but they did ultimately make things right.

This seems like the best solution but I guess relative leverage in the market has made most sellers/brokers feel they don’t need to do it.

I’ve only purchased 3 resale contracts and some title companies were MUCH faster than others…but also (allegedly) my DVCRM sellers just couldn’t be bothered to sign after clearing ROFR (I have some suspicions but can’t prove them so I’ll say nothing more).

Yes, I think it’s most important to remind people they do have a choice!

The title company that took the longest for me was Mason, outside of DVD when they took my contract via ROFR.

But the rest were similar. Of course, some had delayed closings so it didn’t really matter.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Exactly, and DVC Resale Market won't guarantee it unless you use Magic.

@Cfabar1 if you want a 100 point resale contract that's loaded and you value the points at say $20, you'll be losing $6-8k (if the current UY has banked points) on that sale. Essentially making the resale contract useless IMO The seller has control of the points until DVC steps in to transfer the contract which happens after all the checks take place. Plus I wouldn't pay the same for a loaded and a stripped contract. I personally wouldn't buy a stripped contract at all.

Read this thread here for what happened to @TheDailyMoo with Fidelity and BCV points. It's good that recovery was in the contract. This really opened my eyes to the situation: https://www.disboards.com/threads/u...resale-buyers-fidelity-made-it-right.3935884/

I could be wrong, but I don’t believe Fidelity guarantees anything. Their contract does specify how much you’re entitled to from the seller if there are missing points but that does not obligate Fidelity to do anything. Now, they could step in as a gesture of good will - I don’t know if it’s them or other brokers, but there are stories of brokers other than DVCRM doing that. But, to my knowledge, only DVCRM advertises that guarantee (although have not seen the language they put in the actual contract).

I feel like 1-2 year ago there was a long saga here about a member who was battling with Fidelity to get proper reimbursement for lost points and it took him a while to get traction (and public shaming) but they did ultimately make things right.

Yes that was me. @PolyRob tagged me and the post a few pages back. Didn’t read through the whole thread (at BC now and was looking for some light reading before passing out!) but yes Fidelity made it right and paid me what the contract stipulated and I know they paid me out of their own pockets and it from the seller. I’m sure they went after the seller for the money they laid out but I definitely got paid out by Fidelity. And if you read through the thread it did take a little bit of extra nudging but they did change their tune quickly and made me whole. Never fun to pay for points that aren’t there after closing.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Yes that was me. @PolyRob tagged me and the post a few pages back. Didn’t read through the whole thread (at BC now and was looking for some light reading before passing out!) but yes Fidelity made it right and paid me what the contract stipulated and I know they paid me out of their own pockets and it from the seller. I’m sure they went after the seller for the money they laid out but I definitely got paid out by Fidelity. And if you read through the thread it did take a little bit of extra nudging but they did change their tune quickly and made me whole. Never fun to pay for points that aren’t there after closing.

I was pretty sure it was you but not quite confident enough to tag you. Have an amazing stay at BC!

 

[PolyRob]

Yes that was me. @PolyRob tagged me and the post a few pages back. Didn’t read through the whole thread (at BC now and was looking for some light reading before passing out!) but yes Fidelity made it right and paid me what the contract stipulated and I know they paid me out of their own pockets and it from the seller. I’m sure they went after the seller for the money they laid out but I definitely got paid out by Fidelity. And if you read through the thread it did take a little bit of extra nudging but they did change their tune quickly and made me whole. Never fun to pay for points that aren’t there after closing.

Hope you're having a great time using those BCV points!

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

Yes that was me. @PolyRob tagged me and the post a few pages back. Didn’t read through the whole thread (at BC now and was looking for some light reading before passing out!) but yes Fidelity made it right and paid me what the contract stipulated and I know they paid me out of their own pockets and it from the seller. I’m sure they went after the seller for the money they laid out but I definitely got paid out by Fidelity. And if you read through the thread it did take a little bit of extra nudging but they did change their tune quickly and made me whole. Never fun to pay for points that aren’t there after closing.

Probably get in trouble, but that’s some loser kind of stuff. Slimey. Glad you were made whole.

 

[Brian Noble]

This is going to be a very unpopular take around here, but: Fidelity was not responsible for paying you for those missing points. It was a nice gesture that they did, but it was the seller's responsibility. Had they not paid you, I would not hold it against them.

 

[atthebeachclub]

Is it safe to assume estoppel (and thus probably ROFR) will likely take a bit longer when a lien is on the property from Palm Financial (aka Disney)?

 

[atthebeachclub]

This is going to be a very unpopular take around here, but: Fidelity was not responsible for paying you for those missing points. It was a nice gesture that they did, but it was the seller's responsibility. Had they not paid you, I would not hold it against them.

What I find confusing is that Disney doesn’t freeze the points after ROFR and estoppel until transfer. They just sit on the owner’s dashboard until close and then transfer to the new owner a few weeks later.

The other thing I find odd is that the title companies typically release the cash before the new owner receives their points, which increases the new owner’s risk. Both of these seem like small interventions that would minimize risk to buyers.

 

[AstroBlasters]

What I find confusing is that Disney doesn’t freeze the points after ROFR and estoppel until transfer. They just sit on the owner’s dashboard until close and then transfer to the new owner a few weeks later.

The other thing I find odd is that the title companies typically release the cash before the new owner receives their points, which increases the new owner’s risk. Both of these seem like small interventions that would minimize risk to buyers.

There are some brokers that will not release funds to seller until the buyer confirms the points are loaded.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

This is going to be a very unpopular take around here, but: Fidelity was not responsible for paying you for those missing points. It was a nice gesture that they did, but it was the seller's responsibility. Had they not paid you, I would not hold it against them.

Is it an unpopular opinion? Technically, Fidelity states in the contract that the seller must pay $25/point. Can’t hold it against Fidelity at all.

 

[VGCgroupie]

This is going to be a very unpopular take around here, but: Fidelity was not responsible for paying you for those missing points. It was a nice gesture that they did, but it was the seller's responsibility. Had they not paid you, I would not hold it against them.

That says alot about them as a company and they seem to value their customers and customers opinions of them.

 

[VGCgroupie]

There are some brokers that will not release funds to seller until the buyer confirms the points are loaded.

So far I only know of one. As much as I dislike her attitude I still use her because of this policy.

 

[VGCgroupie]

The other thing I find odd is that the title companies typically release the cash before the new owner receives their points, which increases the new owner’s risk. Both of these seem like small interventions that would minimize risk to buyers.

Yep. I even requested they held money until DVC points loaded and was told no.

Edit to fix major typo.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

This is going to be a very unpopular take around here, but: Fidelity was not responsible for paying you for those missing points. It was a nice gesture that they did, but it was the seller's responsibility. Had they not paid you, I would not hold it against them.

Whether or not they are legally responsible, the resale market (their income stream!) will decline dramatically if buyers are forced to try to sue sellers for $500-$5000 worth of points because sellers didn’t honor the contractual obligation and took all the money and run.

What I find confusing is that Disney doesn’t freeze the points after ROFR and estoppel until transfer. They just sit on the owner’s dashboard until close and then transfer to the new owner a few weeks later.

Yes, this is unacceptable to me— if we are paying the new $500/transaction admin fee, the minimum they could do is lock the old owner out of the points use after clearing ROFR.

The other thing I find odd is that the title companies typically release the cash before the new owner receives their points, which increases the new owner’s risk. Both of these seem like small interventions that would minimize risk to buyers.

Yes, agree. It appears some title companies will hold on until points are verified and if I buy resale again, I will find and use those title companies.

 

[Sandisw]

What I find confusing is that Disney doesn’t freeze the points after ROFR and estoppel until transfer. They just sit on the owner’s dashboard until close and then transfer to the new owner a few weeks later.

The other thing I find odd is that the title companies typically release the cash before the new owner receives their points, which increases the new owner’s risk. Both of these seem like small interventions that would minimize risk to buyers.

I order to freeze the contract it freezes an owner’s membership…so, to do it means the seller can’t use their other contracts in that membership.

For someone who is selling their one and only, not a big deal.

 

[Brian Noble]

And again: These transactions almost always go exactly as advertised. In the few situtations they do not, the seller generally makes good on the missing points, because usually they are missing due to some honest mistake.

 

[Cfabar1]

So far I only know of one. As much as I dislike her attitude I still use her because of this policy.

Have a strong hunch I know who this broker is, just based on that description!

 

[TheDailyMoo]

This is going to be a very unpopular take around here, but: Fidelity was not responsible for paying you for those missing points. It was a nice gesture that they did, but it was the seller's responsibility. Had they not paid you, I would not hold it against them.

You are not wrong. Back home from Disney so I just looked up my old emails between Fidelity and Cammy just to refresh myself on the details. The process took about 3 weeks from my initial inquiry to the check for 160 missing points being sent out. It's been a while but it turns out Cammy was more instrumental in the refund process than Fidelity was although I know for sure they worked hand in hand to make it work out. Part of the delay was that the sellers had used the points for a cruise which obviously could not be turned back into regular reservation points. Fidelity had escalated the situation with Disney to see if they would make an exception before making any other decisions. Alas they did not. I stood firm in my desire to be paid what was stipulated in the contract, Although they could have told me to go pound sand and take it up with the sellers they did what was right for their business and the optics that I would have GLADLY spread on these and other boards...oh you bet I let them know that!

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

You are not wrong. Back home from Disney so I just looked up my old emails between Fidelity and Cammy just to refresh myself on the details. The process took about 3 weeks from my initial inquiry to the check for 160 missing points being sent out. It's been a while but it turns out Cammy was more instrumental in the refund process than Fidelity was although I know for sure they worked hand in hand to make it work out. Part of the delay was that the sellers had used the points for a cruise which obviously could not be turned back into regular reservation points. Fidelity had escalated the situation with Disney to see if they would make an exception before making any other decisions. Alas they did not. I stood firm in my desire to be paid what was stipulated in the contract, Although they could have told me to go pound sand and take it up with the sellers they did what was right for their business and the optics that I would have GLADLY spread on these and other boards...oh you bet I let them know that!

I’m sorry for any ignorance, but does that mean it was an accident (using points for a cruise) or did the sellers intentionally pull that?

 

[TheDailyMoo]

I’m sorry for any ignorance, but does that mean it was an accident (using points for a cruise) or did the sellers intentionally pull that?

No I believe it was a mistake although who really knows if that was even the case. I assume so. Either way I paid for whatever points were in the listing and I wanted those points! Plus I was on the hook for the annual dues for points I never used! That being said I have bought exclusively with Fidelity and had used Cammy in those transactions as well. I've always been satisfied with their pricing and their agents never even raising so much as an eyebrow on any lowball offers. They have always been quick and courteous to respond and I would absolutely recommend them. That one time though..it WAS very annoying to say the least!