ROFR Discussion Thread

[Flash_Sloth]

I think if they are behind on payments they have to bring it up before the contract can close. I had one contract where Disney forced them into foreclosure.

Ouch! I feel sorry for anyone in that position, but from Disney's perspective, it is just business.

 

[pzw90]

Maybe agree 75% of the time. Honestly their price per point scale doesn’t make sense if you look at 2 similar contracts imo. Seems they go off the listed price for that. Maybe not. I do believe that DVCRM prices their contracts at what they think the contract could go for. And why we see higher price per point averages when the monthly reports are released.

@rferrar1 who runs it explained the dealscore below

Yes, though I will add that there are some pretty big changes coming to the dealscore algorithm soon as well. The valuation of current and next year points are being tweaked (increasing in value) and we're making a change to the way that listings are compared against each other. Currently, listings are compared solely against their peers (same resort and points-on-contract band), and while listings will continue to be compared to resort peers, we're adding some "blending" so that the point-bands don't result in such harsh boundaries. Hard to explain but the end result should be more consistency. Big thanks to a fellow disboards member and data scientist (Howie) for working with us on these changes. More to come.

In addition, and as a preview to exclusively to the disboards community we'll soon be releasing a "hottest deals" page. The goal of this page is to make it easier for you to compare listings that are currently on the market, with those that have recently sold. You can also view the listing popularity. Check out the preview here https://www.dvcforless.com/hottest-deals Note: you need to create a free login to view this page.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Ouch! I feel sorry for anyone in that position, but from Disney's perspective, it is just business.

Correct. They’ll make a lot more money foreclosing on the points.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I think if they are behind on payments they have to bring it up before the contract can close. I had one contract where Disney forced them into foreclosure.

My point still stands that the CAF has nothing to do with the overall final number of the sale, final number is the final number. If in arrears they will have to bring cash but that cash will be the same weather or not the CAF was negotiated vs price per point vs closing vs any other fees or not.

I feel like I am in the twilight zone and Im talking but all people are hearing is waaaa waaa waaaa.

 

[NaptownMom]

It doesn’t have to be an either/or. Many sellers are getting the price per point they want and the buyer is paying CAF.

So, as a seller, it is waiting for a buyer willing to do both, so they maximize what they get.

All I can say is, there are a lot of stale contracts out there.

We just negotiated for seller to pay CAF this week. Sellers overpriced 6 months ago, before CAF was instituted. If they’d priced sanely back then, there would’ve been no CAF to negotiate over.

 

[Sandisw]

All I can say is, there are a lot of stale contracts out there.

We just negotiated for seller to pay CAF this week. Sellers overpriced 6 months ago, before CAF was instituted. If they’d priced sanely back then, there would’ve been no CAF to negotiate over.

Maybe but just saying that many deals happen where both seller and buyer have the same idea of what a contract may be worth.

Same with buyers…just have to find a seller who think the same as they do!

 

[NaptownMom]

Maybe but just saying that many deals happen where both seller and buyer have the same idea of what a contract may be worth.

Same with buyers…just have to find a seller who think the same as they do!

Sure. But CAF is a new wrinkle in our market. It’s something the market will take some time to digest. I have a suspicion more sellers are going to pay it than paid closing costs historically.

 

[Flash_Sloth]

My point still stands that the CAF has nothing to do with the overall final number of the sale, final number is the final number. If in arrears they will have to bring cash but that cash will be the same weather or not the CAF was negotiated vs price per point vs closing vs any other fees or not.

I feel like I am in the twilight zone and Im talking but all people are hearing is waaaa waaa waaaa.

View attachment 1063372

Oh I hear you and agree with you. The final number is the only one that truly counts. If you get to the same final number, it doesn't matter whether you negotiate the price-per-point down or the CAF or annual dues, etc.

CAF does add a wrinkle to things, and with it being fixed amount for a contract, it seems to hit smaller point contracts more than larger point contracts.

 

[Sandisw]

Sure. But CAF is a new wrinkle in our market. It’s something the market will take some time to digest. I have a suspicion more sellers are going to pay it than paid closing costs historically.

It still remains that sellers who don’t agree to pay it may not have to compromise on price in order to sell.

It may be a new wrinkle for those who are already owners, but many new buyers it’s not. It’s just part of the closing costs.

Of course, posters here in the DIS may be more likely to negotiate it or adjust price.

Just not sure that represents the resale market as a whole.

It will be interesting to watch the sales reports from the two brokers…DVCRM and Fidelity…who report if we get insight.

 

[Cfabar1]

At the end of the DVCRM Fan show this week they mentioned that just about every single sale they are doing the buyer is paying the CAF $500 fee. The conversation felt like a "you can try to negotiate it, but it likely isn't going to work out for you" kind of thing. I think Derrick spoke to this, and he also mentioned that some ask for sellers to pay their annual dues on loaded contracts, but it rarely works out.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

Before I found this forum, I would have never negotiated. Assuming most people were like me prior to joining this forum, that’s a high percentage of people who would pay asking price along with CAF and closing costs. It’s good news for us if we decide to sell. I also think sellers who are not on this forum may be more likely to take what they get.

 

[Brian Noble]

The conversation felt like a "you can try to negotiate it, but it likely isn't going to work out for you" kind of thing.

And that makes sense to me---I suspect (but do not know) that the average seller thinks of CAF, Dues on current year points, and closing costs as "stuff I am not getting, so I should not have to pay for," whereas the cost-per-point is "let's see what we can agree on."

I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but I have a feeling that if you want an out-the-door price of $X, and $X is below market-average, it is easier to find a seller who will take a below-average price-per-point vs. finding a seller who will e.g. pay the CAF. And it does not matter, and should not matter, because the bottom line is the only part that does matter. But, humans generally don't work that way.

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe agree 75% of the time. Honestly their price per point scale doesn’t make sense if you look at 2 similar contracts imo. Seems they go off the listed price for that. Maybe not. I do believe that DVCRM prices their contracts at what they think the contract could go for. And why we see higher price per point averages when the monthly reports are released.

But the monthly reports are actual sales data. So, that is what people are paying.

Same with Fidelity’s report. They are actual sales, not what was asked.

But when selling, and I have used several brokers, they all give you their recommendations and then as a seller, one decides.

A few times I thought it was high…like my BLT at $189, but it sold within 24 hours at that price.

 

[Add-On-Itis]

At the end of the DVCRM Fan show this week they mentioned that just about every single sale they are doing the buyer is paying the CAF $500 fee. The conversation felt like a "you can try to negotiate it, but it likely isn't going to work out for you" kind of thing. I think Derrick spoke to this, and he also mentioned that some ask for sellers to pay their annual dues on loaded contracts, but it rarely works out.

As a buyer I would not use Derrick.

As a seller I would use Derrick.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

As a buyer I would not use Derrick.

As a seller I would use Derrick.

As a buyer, I would not use DVCRM.

 

[Brian Noble]

Then you are limiting your choices. And that is your prerogative. But according to dvcforless, they get about half of the listing volume. So you are ignoring half the market. Is it likely to be among the more expensive half? Often, but not always. I got a very good deal on a contract listed with them. It was not the absolute bottom of the market, but it was well under the average selling price and did not require a bunch of back and forth to get there.

Frankly, I'm happy to have fewer people competing for some contracts in which I might be interested.

 

[byurick]

I also bought a contract from them recently that was priced right where I wanted to be, no fuss no muss (I am not interested in haggling or getting a killer deal so your results may vary). I suspect a lot of other buyers feel the same otherwise I don't think they would have quite as big a market share as they do.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

You’re both welcome!

 

[Add-On-Itis]

Then you are limiting your choices. And that is your prerogative. But according to dvcforless, they get about half of the listing volume. So you are ignoring half the market. Is it likely to be among the more expensive half? Often, but not always. I got a very good deal on a contract listed with them. It was not the absolute bottom of the market, but it was well under the average selling price and did not require a bunch of back and forth to get there.

Frankly, I'm happy to have fewer people competing for some contracts in which I might be interested.

I am not in the market for more points right now. But I did make alot of offers when I was buying. DVCRM, I chose Derek D. He was not willing to negoiate at all. And made it sound like a pain in his rear to submit my offers to the seller. Gave me the same speech.

 

[Brian Noble]

If someone wants to lecture me, I don't have to read it. That's what the "delete" button is for. The only part of the response that matters is: Accepted/Rejected/Countered. The broker's attitude is none of my business.