Roadside cross memorials unconstitutional?

[Chuck S]

You're still making assumptions based on "posting trends". Hardly scientific and no way to know how accurate.

I guess we won't know for sure until we can find a properly conducted poll.

I never stated anything contrary, but at least "posting trends" gives some data on which to base an assumption, instead of relying on a poll that is easily corrupted. I never stated what percentage, or even hinted at a percentage, I simply said it is likely that members of the very vocal group supporting the crosses would not support the insignia and state land being used for non-Christian religious memorials.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I never stated anything contrary, but at least "posting trends" gives some data on which to base an assumption, instead of relying on a poll that is easily corrupted. I never stated what percentage, or even hinted at a percentage, I simply said it is likely that members of the very vocal group supporting the crosses would not support the insignia and state land being used for non-Christian religious memorials.

I have nothing against state land non-Christian religious memorials.

But there's only one way to heaven.

 

[sha_lyn]

I have nothing against state land non-Christian religious memorials.

But there's only one way to heaven

That's your opinion

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

As NYBlue1 pointed out, "they" refers to the "extreme" Christians as a whole, not anyone in particular. You know the type, "it is our way to Heaven, or no way at all." Even for other Chrisitian sects. And sometimes it is only some people of a sect that have such extreme beliefs, but they are also generally (and unfortunately) the most vocal, branding the entire group wih a stereotype.

I'm very familiar with "the type". But you have fundamentalists in every religion and every non-religion as well. To me, the atheists who have incited this law suit are akin to the Christian fundamentalists you are talking about. Not all atheists are fundamentalists, just like not all Christians are, but this particular group seems to be.

 

[Chuck S]

I'm very familiar with "the type". But you have fundamentalists in every religion and every non-religion as well. To me, the atheists who have incited this law suit are akin to the Christian fundamentalists you are talking about. Not all atheists are fundamentalists, just like not all Christians are, but this particular group seems to be.

But, again, this to me is a basic "Separation of Church & State" lawsuit regardless of who actually initiated the lawsuit. Many religious folks also believe in that. If your contention is that the lawsuit is wrong or without merit because it was started by Atheists, I respectfully disagree with you. As you say, not all Atheists are the equivalent of extreme fundamentalist Christians, and there is no indication as to whether the ones that started the suit are "Fundamentalists" Atheists or simply started the lawsuit for the separation issue.

 

[sha_lyn]

But, again, this to me is a basic "Separation of Church & State" lawsuit regardless of who actually initiated the lawsuit. Many religious folks also believe in that. If your contention is that the lawsuit is wrong or without merit because it was started by Atheists, I respectfully disagree with you. As you say, not all Atheists are the equivalent of extreme fundamentalist Christians, and there is no indication as to whether the ones that started the suit are "Fundamentalists" Atheists or simply started the lawsuit for the separation issue.

Well said...ITA

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

But, again, this to me is a basic "Separation of Church & State" lawsuit regardless of who actually initiated the lawsuit. Many religious folks also believe in that. If your contention is that the lawsuit is wrong or without merit because it was started by Atheists, I respectfully disagree with you. As you say, not all Atheists are the equivalent of extreme fundamentalist Christians, and there is no indication as to whether the ones that started the suit are "Fundamentalists" Atheists or simply started the lawsuit for the separation issue.

No, it's not my contention that the lawsuit is wrong because it was started by Atheists and I'm sorry that it came across that way. Atheists have the same rights as everyone else and are certainly entitled to staring lawsuits. However, they did come together as a group and identify themselves as Atheists and also said that the crosses were offensive to them. While they certainly use the separation of church and state to make their arguments, you can't deny that their belief system also comes into play.

 

[Chuck S]

No, it's not my contention that the lawsuit is wrong because it was started by Atheists and I'm sorry that it came across that way. Atheists have the same rights as everyone else and are certainly entitled to staring lawsuits. However, they did come together as a group and identify themselves as Atheists and also said that the crosses were offensive to them. While they certainly use the separation of church and state to make their arguments, you can't deny that their belief system also comes into play.

Then I guess I don't understand what you are saying...if it isn't wrong that the lawsuit was initiated by Atheists, why does it matter who started it? It could just as easily have been started by a Christian group that believes in separation of church and state.

Separation of church and state is part of many peoples beliefs and philosophies.

 

[BalooTheBear]

Deleted

 

[Chuck S]

Is there such a thing as "Extreme atheistism"? I mean can someone be an atheist and not be so strong in denying other people the right to their own beliefs? Why must it always be NO Christian display of their faith. I haven't really seen any atheist groups gang up on any other observances of faiths, such as Islam or Buddism...... Or maybe I am just missing it. Why must it always seem to be the Christian faith?????

How many public expressions of Islam or Buddism, on public land, with state insignia, do you see in the US? How many Islamic or Buddists expressions in the US do you think are violating the philosphy of separation of church and state, as opposed to the number of Christian icons in the US?

 

[BalooTheBear]

Deleted

 

[Nikel]

Islamic observance of holidays in public schools doesn't qualify? Jewish menorrahs don't count? Statues of Buddah????

But, not really the point I was trying to make......... My point is why is it always an attack on GOD???

Erm, an "attack" on most religions would still be an "attack" on God.

 

[Chuck S]

Islamic observance of holidays in public schools doesn't qualify? Jewish menorrahs don't count? Statues of Buddah????

But, not really the point I was trying to make......... My point is why is it always an attack on GOD???

Uhhh, the Islamic "God" is the "God of Abraham", as is the "Jewish God" and the Christian God, right? They all fall under "Separation of Church" philosophy, as far as I know.

And schools ARE allowed to teach the "Bible as Literature" type courses.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

....

Separation of church and state is part of many peoples beliefs and philosophies.

Yes, and that's what it has become mainly -- a belief and philosophy of many -- and stretched well beyond the Constitutional "government may not establish a religion..."

 

[sha_lyn]

Is there such a thing as "Extreme atheistism"? I mean can someone be an atheist and not be so strong in denying other people the right to their own beliefs?

??? So are you trying to say that all atheist try to deny others the right to believe in God?
If so, sorry but that is a bunch of BS.

Islamic observance of holidays in public schools doesn't qualify? Jewish menorrahs don't count? Statues of Buddah????

Can you show us at least one example of a non-Christian religious emblem/symbol that was erected on public land with private funds, and bears a government emblem.

As for "observance of Islamic holidays"... care to give an example? If there are schools that close to observe Islamic holidays, them I assume that they are in areas with a heavy Islamic population.
You do realize that every public school in the US is closed for Xmas, and many are closed for Good Friday.

 

[Chuck S]

Yes, and that's what it has become mainly -- a belief and philosophy of many -- and stretched well beyond the Constitutional "government may not establish a religion..."

But by authorizing a state insignia to be used on a religious symbol, that certainly implies an endorsement/establishment of that religion.

 

[BalooTheBear]

Deleted

 

[sha_lyn]

Yes, an attack on the Christian GOD..... As in JESUS CHRIST....... Never any others

You need to brush up on religious history.
The Christian God is also the God of the Jews and the Muslims.

 

[sha_lyn]

I believe atheist should have the same rights to their views.... But, why deny others of theirs??? And so is my point about EXTREME atheist.....

How has any atheist denied anyone their right to hold their own religious views?

 

[Chuck S]

Yes, an attack on the Christian GOD..... As in JESUS CHRIST....... Never any others............

I believe atheist should have the same rights to their views.... But, why deny others of theirs??? And so is my point about EXTREME atheist.....

Again, aren't the Islamic "God" and the Jewish "God" and the Christian "God" all the same "God"? Are you saying Atheists are only attacking Jesus, but not God? I guess I'm not seeing your point I don't see Atheists treating Islam, Buddhism, Judaism or Christianity differently.