Road Side Memorials and Shrines. Possible debate

Why does the place a person died have so much signifigance? I wouldn't want to be remembered that way. I'd like to remembered for the way I lived.

A new trend that I've seen is driving memorials painted on car windows.

I don't want that either.
 
We have one on a nearby street. It's a small white cross with the young mans hat on it. It doesn't bother me at all. Actually, I get annoyed when the township doesn't have the grass around it cut properly. I see that cross and it reminds me to be extra careful at that intersection.
I see others often and they don't bother me at all. I'm only driving by for goodness sake. They are no more distracting them some of the billboards I see.

Kimba
 
In general, I don't mind them, and I do find myself slowing down and thinking that being a few minutes later is better than being dead. However, I do think they can be taken too far.

There is one near us that is decorated to the hilt for every holiday. It's a large cross with the man's name and date of death. For Easter, there is a giant inflated bunny and and egg tree (plastic eggs hanging from a tree). On Father's day, there are balloons and one of those floral arrangements that spells out "DAD." About a year after the wreck I saw the woman there decorating it with her two young kids. I'm sure she must miss her DH (I presume he was her DH) but gosh, enough is enough. This man died in *FEB 1999* - Over FIVE YEARS AGO!!! :eek: Still, she comes and decorates. I feel sorry for her kids. They will only have these memories of decorating the place where their dad died. How about some happy memories?

My DH thinks it's morbid and told me if he ever died in a wreck not to put up one of those and certainly not to waste my life afterwards keeping it decorated. He said to put flowers on his grave if I must, but to grieve and then get on with my life and be happy. I would be devastated if anything ever happened to him, but I wouldn't want to constantly remind myself of how and where he died...not for over 5 years.

Laurie
 
Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
That's cruel. If someone built a shrine on my property, I'd respectfully ask them to remove it. I would not throw their cross onto the street. :(

If memory serves, the woman allowed it for awhile and then removed it. The family kept replacing it and she kept removing it. After awhile, she just started throwing it in the street. CindysGusGus, correct me if I'm wrong. While I think it was in bad taste to throw it in the street, I also think it was wrong for the family to keep replacing it.

If this happened on my property, I would allow a shrine for about a week. No longer. I don't like the things at all so that is a compromise on my part. Elsewhere, I think one month is definitely long enough.
 

I don't mind them, mostly. But sometimes they're so over-the-top they can be distracting.
 
We have a few shrines along the roads here. One has been up over 10 years and balloons and flowers still adorn it on special occassions. Another shrine has been there almost as long, but it's just a couple of small hearts decorated with artifical flowers. I can think if a coupe of other places where accidents have happened and people died, but no memorials are there. It really doesn't bother me one bit. If it makes them feel better...fine.
 
Over FIVE YEARS AGO!!!

I don't know, but I don't think I'll judge how long someone should miss and grieve for their loved ones. Perhaps if your husband dies, in 5 years you'll be over it, but maybe others don't forget so quickly.

I'm with mommytutu, if it makes them feel better, fine with me.

Given the choice, I'd rather be the one having to look at the memorial than the one who put it up.
 
Dawn, Im not sure if the woman was ever asked not to place it on the womans property but it was put back over and over again.
I think it was stubborness on both parts.

Beth, I completely agree. Both sides could have taken much nicer actions.
 
I think if the memorials help the family somehow, who are we to say they should or shouldn't be there? Private property, I do understand, but how much more distracted would you be by that or any other roadside sign?

What about if the accident was in a place that had frequent accidents, such as ilovepcot is talking about, the cross would remind other drivers to slow down/pay attention. Maybe that's actually the family's goal.

In FL, these shrines have been replaced by small circular signs, I think placed by the DOT, if family members request them. I don't remember what they say, maybe something like "Don't drink and Drive" or something to that effect. This program had started just before I moved 5 years ago, so I don't know if this is still taking place.

My brother drowned at a lake in FL, we went there that day and floated a wreath of flowers out onto the water, my cousin later erected a cross on the bank. We don't decorate it or anything, it's just a reminder to everyone there that a tragedy happened, to be aware of the safety required there. He died 10 years ago. The cross is still there - we have no plans to ever remove it.
 
It's unbelievable what they're doing in cemetaries. I was looking for something about a "shrine" on a main road in Boca Raton but found this in the process.


http://www.theroc.org/updates/floridacemetery.html





No Faith in THIS Graveyard, Mister!

Florida court allows removal of religious signage from cemetery.

by Sly Spurling

In a setback for a new law restricting governmental infringement in religious affairs, a Judge ruled that the city of Boca Raton could remove or destroy religious symbols and monuments made or left at gravesites in the city's municipal cemetery.

Judge Kenneth Ryskamp said he would permit the city to remove religious symbols from the grave sites of loved ones, saying that the vertical memorials and their ground coverings were not "essential" to or required by the Christian, Catholic and Jewish faiths.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida had filed a lawsuit based on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1998 on behalf of seven families of mixed faith. This was done to challenge the city's intention to remove decade-old vertical religious symbols, including Stars of David and Christian crosses, from plots in the municipal cemetery. They said that they would appeal the decision as soon as it was finalized.

"There are few rights more precious than honoring a loved one at a grave site in accordance with the dictates of one's religion," said Howard Simon, Executive Director of the ACLU of Florida. Simon continued to say, "While the city can enact reasonable regulations governing its cemetery, restrictions like these reflect religious intolerance and insensitivity."

Florida's new Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1998 provides a higher level of legal protection against state government infringements on religious freedoms. The ACLU said that Boca Raton's threatened actions in this matter constitutes a "substantial burden" on religion.

"The courts are not in business to determine what is or is not orthodox religious practice. We are also disappointed that the Court failed to distinguish between the gravity of removing vertical memorials already in place at grave sites and the abstract prohibition of vertical memorials in the future." said ACLU attorney James K. Green.

The rules for the cemetery forbid such things, but this rule was never enforced in the past. Now they've decided to crack down on them. According to an associated press article, the city wants the items removed so they do not "hinder" access to other plots. They are also concerned about accidents with machinery used for landscaping or digging graves, said Bruce Rogow, an attorney for the city.

"If the backhoe hits one of these objects, sending it through the air, someone could get hurt," Rogow said. That sounds like a crock of it to me. It's probably more of a case of city beautification run amuck. Sometimes all the religious iconage at a cemetery can get a little much, and there's nothing worse, in they eyes of zoning officials and realtors, than an unsightly clutter that causes property values to go down.

In other words, the city wants to keep its graveyard from being cluttered by silly, religious symbols, in spite of whatever meaning or religious significance those monuments may have the families of the departed. How nice of them: not only will the zoning people pester you when you're alive, but they'll come back to haunt your loved ones when you're gone, too. No respect for religious freedom or freedom of expression on either side of the grave!

The ironic thing is that, while this Act was being considered, the ACLU teamed up with their perennial foes in the Christian Coalition, as well as many other mainstream religious groups, to get it passed. Many people of vastly different outlooks came together to agree that this was a good and needed thing. And now, with the first case to come down the pipe for it, a judge shoots its teeth out of its mouth. Charming.

Anyone in the Boca Raton area should be hopping mad over this one. The last thing anyone needs is to have the city show up and tell you that the cross in front of grandpa's headstone needs to be removed. And if you think this doesn't matter, remember what Ben Franklin said about Death and Taxes. Contact the ACLU to see what you can do on a grass-roots level.

Also contact the city council of Boca Raton to ask them why the state government's wishes for a state free of civil interference in religious matters are being overturned. I bet they might be very willing to listen if a number of concerned citizens with loved ones in the cemetery show up to a meeting to ask why this is going on. They voted to enforce the rules, they might be persuaded to revoke that decision.

The case is Warner, et al. v. The City of Boca Raton. The families are represented by ACLU volunteer attorneys Lynn G. Waxman and James K. Green of West Palm Beach, and Charlotte H. Danciu of Boca Raton.

The ACLU of Florida can be reached at

Executive Director: Howard Simon
3000 Biscayne Blvd., Suite 215
Miami, FL 33137
Phone: (305) 576-2336
Fax: (305) 576-1106
E-mail: ACLUFL@aol.com

The latest case report can be found at

http://www.aclu.org/news/1999/n033199a.html

The City Council for Boca Raton can be reached at

Mayor: Carol Hanson, 561/393-7708

Deputy Mayor: Bill Glass, 561/393-7708

Council Members: Wanda Thayer, Susan Whelchel and Steven Abrams, 561/393-7708

Boca Raton City Hall Boca Raton City Council
201 W. Palmetto Park Road 201 W. Palmetto Park Road
Boca Raton, FL 33432 Boca Raton, FL 33432
561/393-7700 561/393-7708



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I can see it lasting maybe a year but that should be it. Mayube a small cross to signify it on the anniversary but not permanent it should be removed. I know it is a sad thing to have to go through but we do all have to get on with our lives I lost my grandfather not to long ago and it really was for the better we have moved on as should those with these types of things.
 
I have a few thoughts...

1. I think putting up a memorial where a loved one died is an odd ritual. My dad died at Trump Marina in Atlantic City. Do you think the Donald would mind if each year on dad's birthday, anniversary of his death, etc. I went and erected a memorial in the middle of the hotel lobby? A memorial should never be erected on private property without the owner's permission.

2. I think the money spent on these types of memorials is a waste. Family and friends spend quite a bit on flowers, stuffed animals, candles, etc. Instead, donate that money to the family (if they need it) or to an appropriate charity so that it does some good rather than just adding to the pile of stuff that will end up in a landfill. I especially think this is true when people who didn't even know the deceased pile things at the memorial.

3. I think the roadside memorials are distracting. I know that I tend to turn and look when I'm passing one, which means I'm not watching the road when I do so. I wonder how many accidents have been caused by this type of distraction.

4. I know a local couple who lost their son, a fireman, in a fire. They actually didn't like having the big memorial that developed and persisted for months afterward. They had to pass it to get home every day and it just stood out as a reminder of their loss. I think if anyone is going to put up a memorial it should be the immediate family or someone who has gotten permission from the family. And it should be taken down after some appropriate period, perhaps one month. After that, flowers or other memorials can be left at the gravesite.
 
Originally posted by Pin Wizard
It's unbelievable what they're doing in cemetaries. I was looking for something about a "shrine" on a main road in Boca Raton but found this in the process.


I'm guessing that this is an urban legend. It reminds me of another "story" that I've seen in an email. Again, I'm guessing. I could be wrong, but it seems to be along the same lines.
 
Disney Steve I agree they should set up a charity in the decesed persons name to give out and peopole can donate to it duriong the year or whenever and on the anniversary it gets donated to a charity in the state.
 
It always saddens me to see these shrines left beside the roadways marking a loved one's death. But I also think that there is a place to memorialize your loved one -- the cemetery. A small cross would be acceptable to leave behind along a road, but not some of these elaborate shrines I have seen lately.

Just a few blocks from me a man died over a year and a half ago. He was driving his motorcycle too fast and didn't have time to stop when a car in front of him was turning. Very sad. But the family has turned the backyard of someone's house into his shrine. This is actually on county property, since it is the easement behind the people's house. They put up three crosses, all over 3 feet tall. One holds his motorcycle helmet. They decorate the whole area with balloons on every holiday as well as on game day during football season, baseball season, etc. Their latest thing to do was put a tiki torch up, AND LIGHT IT, leaving it unsupervised! Someone blew it out by the time I returned from the store, but it was lit right near this person's trees!

This is a corner where I and many people in my subdivision drive by everyday getting in and out of here. Frankly, I want the family to move it to the cemetery. I don't mean to sound heartless, but I have looked at it long enough. If that were my backyard I would have called the county already.
 
http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?...t/clerk/briefs/2003/1401-1600/03-1417_ans.pdf

This was a horrible car accident in 2/96 where a 19 year old was driving. Five teenages died, seven others were injured. Can't find the actual newspaper articles. The court case is about all that came up. Details start on page 18.

There are still four white crosses and a Star of David where this accident occurred. In general, I wish these types of memorials would be done away with after a certain amount of time. In this case, I'm not positive after reading the link above. But they are on the side of a very busy road. It's hard not to glance at them as you drive by. I'm another one that almost hit the back of someone during rush hour because I was looking at them. Tragic story. :(
 
They don't bother me but can be a distraction.

I can remember little white crosses when I was growing up in IN in the 60's. They aren't a recent occurrence.
 
There was one near me last year. It was on a woodsy kind of road. There were shirts and plastic flowers all over the tree. Then people spray painted messages to the deceased in the road. One day, I was driving home from picking my 3 year old up at school and there was a grandpa-aged guy in the middle of the road photographing the spray painted messages. The road is hilly and winds around a bend and is wooded. I almost ran him over. Finally, someone chopped down the tree!!! I was shocked. Not sure if it was the family or nearby neighbors or what. One year later, the tree is on the ground with plastic flowers still attached to it. My sister had one near her house where they came for months and lit candles at the tree. They had baseball shirts pinned to the tree, etc. I find them really distracting and they kind of give me the willies.
 
I've seen these crosses and flowers at a particular intersection or curve on a regular basis, and it reminds me that this must be a dangerous place, which also reminds me to slow down and be even more careful than I normally would.
I was taught in Driver's Ed. that the yellow caution signs with lower speed limits were posted for a reason. You should always drive within the limits and drive defensively....crosses and flowers shouldn't be the only way you remember to drive safely.

Actually, I get annoyed when the township doesn't have the grass around it cut properly. I see that cross and it reminds me to be extra careful at that intersection.
You've got to be joking??!! You expect the township to trim around it??!! What a waste of our tax dollars. And you blame the intersection??? You need to place the blame on the cause of the accidents.......drunk drivers, reckless drivers, speeders, druggies, bad weather....

Memorials should be placed in cemeteries.......not on public roadways. Doesn't your counties or states have laws about the removal of election signs after the elections? Why should the crosses/shrines be treated any different? If people want to make bad intersections safer then they need to go through the proper channels such as to the county highway department to add signs, lower the speed limits or have it patrolled by the police.
 











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