Riviera 50 pointer cleared ROFR at $121

[CarolynFH]

For a long time I have thought the Resale Restriction would be a killer. Not so sure any more. As posted above, there are many passionate owners of places like BWV and GFV that only want to stay at those locations. The key will be in the Resort, will it have such a great appeal that many will only want to stay there. Will the Skyliner be a big enough/convenient mode of transportation that it becomes the best way to get around (at least to the 2 parks). Only time will tell, but if Disney is correct on the appeal of the Riviera, the resale restriction may not be as big a deterrent as I originally anticipated. I do have to say, I was at WDW last week and took a Skyliner ride to the Riviera from Epcot. The ride was scenic and uneventful (a good thing) and the Riviera really looks beautiful from the outside.

I agree. As someone who reversed course and bought RIV, I wonder if it will be as bad as many of us think it will...me included!

I can see a person who loves the resort picking up a resale contract for use there along with having ownership at other resorts.

I think that, just as many have bought resale BWV and BCV contracts specifically to use for Epcot festival (F&W, etc.) stays, many will also buy resale RIV contracts specifically for Epcot festival stays, especially if they're younger and feel the 2042 contracts are too short for them. We made several trips on the Skyliner between DHS and Epcot in early November, and the Skyliner was wonderfully convenient. If we weren't older and already BWV owners, a resale contract at RIV would be very appealing!

ETA - Actually, younger buyers might be drawn to resale at RIV for easy Skyliner access to DHS now too!

 

[sethschroeder]

Then I hope they also buy themselves some running shoes!

Off topic but does that lake have a walking/running path around it? Or it is simply "random" sidewalks that go from building to building that you could weak around on?

 

[Soap_1984]

For a long time I have thought the Resale Restriction would be a killer. Not so sure any more. As posted above, there are many passionate owners of places like BWV and GFV that only want to stay at those locations. The key will be in the Resort, will it have such a great appeal that many will only want to stay there. Will the Skyliner be a big enough/convenient mode of transportation that it becomes the best way to get around (at least to the 2 parks). Only time will tell, but if Disney is correct on the appeal of the Riviera, the resale restriction may not be as big a deterrent as I originally anticipated. I do have to say, I was at WDW last week and took a Skyliner ride to the Riviera from Epcot. The ride was scenic and uneventful (a good thing) and the Riviera really looks beautiful from the outside.

Yes but...that changes nothing regarding whether you have to sell or not; it will negatively impact resale. You are assuming everyone books at exactly 11 months; owning some resale I can't book riviera but if I can't plan 11 months out (which I generally can't) what if I own Riv and can't book at Riv? I literally have points I can't use. You can't split stay either and get closer to MK and the point charts are on the higher end, with high mf.

I can understand liking riviera but if you are very likely to sell prior to year 50 I can see why you'd want to avoid it or see if they will remove the restrictions before buying.

 

[sethschroeder]

ETA - Actually, younger buyers might be drawn to resale at RIV for easy Skyliner access to DHS now too!

Except as a younger buyer you need to realize RIV is so extremely front heavy on price. Where as you can get by much cheaper on something like BWV.

We really love BWV but the price of a RIV contract also turned us off to it.

 

[CarolynFH]

Except as a younger buyer you need to realize RIV is so extremely front heavy on price. Where as you can get by much cheaper on something like BWV.

We really love BWV but the price of a RIV contract also turned us off to it.

I’m not a younger buyer. I’m an old owner. And I do realize RIV is expensive. What I said was that younger buyers might be drawn to resale at RIV. So I assume what you meant to say was “Except as a younger buyer they need....” - correct? Surely you weren’t implying that I don’t know RIV is expensive?

 

[sethschroeder]

I’m not a younger buyer. I’m an old owner. And I do realize RIV is expensive. What I said was that younger buyers might be drawn to resale at RIV. So I assume what you meant to say was “Except as a younger buyer they need....” - correct? Surely you weren’t implying that I don’t know RIV is expensive?

You is not you. You is a generalized concept of the young buyer looking at possibly purchasing.

When comparing BWV, RIV, and AKV all to one another what some people like myself run in to is the simple fact of smaller savings accounts and trying to avoid debt on something like this at all costs. So while RIV may long term be a better option (depending on what you are looking at) they turn away because of the initial cash outlay to get the same rooms at RIV. (Saving $5k-$10k now is worth way more than having an extra 20-25 years on a contract when we will have kids about to enter college where freeing up those MFs will help with no "requirement" to worry about selling.)

Just trying to shine some light from my personal thoughts.

 

[Sandisw]

Off topic but does that lake have a walking/running path around it? Or it is simply "random" sidewalks that go from building to building that you could weak around on?

From what I have read, there is a path at RIV around the lake.

 

[The Jackal]

From what I have read, there is a path at RIV around the lake.

RIV connects to Caribbean Beach Resort. It was built on the grounds of it. They tore down some CBR hotel buildings an built RIV. So you can walk, run all around the lake and CBR. Lots of CBR guests will be using the Skyliner at the RIV station, because it is the closest one to them. From what I can see the RIV station is the closest for about 1/3 of CBR.

 

[zavandor]

RIV connects to Caribbean Beach Resort. It was built on the grounds of it. They tore down some CBR hotel buildings an built RIV. So you can walk, run all around the lake and CBR. Lots of CBR guests will be using the Skyliner at the RIV station, because it is the closest one to them. From what I can see the RIV station is the closest for about 1/3 of CBR.

And it would be interesting to know how expenses for that station are shared between CBR and RIV. If they are shared at all or RIV owners pay for everything.

 

[Sandisw]

And it would be interesting to know how expenses for that station are shared between CBR and RIV. If they are shared at all or RIV owners pay for everything.

That is a great question. I would assume that the entire cost of the Skyliner would be split eventually between the resorts it is servicing. I also got to thinking to wondering how they determined the cost to run the Skyliner for a year when calculating 2020 dues. Since they wouldn’t hsve actual costs, just best guest estimates, I wonder if they shot high or low, or close to target.

 

[zavandor]

That is a great question. I would assume that the entire cost of the Skyliner would be split eventually between the resorts it is servicing.

It certainly is, but split how?
It would be fair to split it this way:
- a % is paid by Disney for the usage by WDW users who are not staying onsite and use the Skyliner to move between parks or to visit a resort for dining and shopping, depending on usage by park guests / onsite guests.
- the rest is split between the resorts based on occupancy (ie AoA is bigger than RIV so that resort should be allocated more expenses)

What I instead think it's happening is:
- the cost if split by three because there are three stations
- the cost for each station is then allocated to the corresponding resort (i.e. RIV pays 1/3 of the total Skyliner expenses). If a station serves multiple resorts, the expenses are split between the two resorts depending on occupancy (not relevant for RIV)

If you think it's unfair and impossible it's split this way... I've read here on the DISboards this is how the cost for the friendship boats is split:
- the total cost is split by three and the hotel at each stop pays 1/3 of the total costs
- for each stop, the cost is split between the hotel and the DVC part, based on occupancy
While still unfair, the three hotels on the friendship boats line are not too different in size. But RIV is so much smaller than AoA, Pop and CB, it would be extremely unfair to split the expenses in equal parts.
Before buying RIV I would pretend to know how the Skyliner expenses are allocated, but it doesn't seem something of interested to owners, as I don't think anyone asked yet.

 

[Sandisw]

It certainly is, but split how?
It would be fair to split it this way:
- a % is paid by Disney for the usage by WDW users who are not staying onsite and use the Skyliner to move between parks or to visit a resort for dining and shopping, depending on usage by park guests / onsite guests.
- the rest is split between the resorts based on occupancy (ie AoA is bigger than RIV so that resort should be allocated more expenses)

What I instead think it's happening is:
- the cost if split by three because there are three stations
- the cost for each station is then allocated to the corresponding resort (i.e. RIV pays 1/3 of the total Skyliner expenses). If a station serves multiple resorts, the expenses are split between the two resorts depending on occupancy (not relevant for RIV)

If you think it's unfair and impossible it's split this way... I've read here on the DISboards this is how the cost for the friendship boats is split:
- the total cost is split by three and the hotel at each stop pays 1/3 of the total costs
- for each stop, the cost is split between the hotel and the DVC part, based on occupancy
While still unfair, the three hotels on the friendship boats line are not to different in size. But RIV is so much smaller than AoA, Pop and CB, it would be extremely unfair to split the expenses in equal parts.
Before buying RIV I would pretend to know how the Skyliner expenses are allocated, but it doesn't seem something of interested to owners, as I don't think anyone asked yet.

Oh wow. Never even thought about all those nuisances. Who does one email to find out? Now that I am a RIV owner, I’d like to know!

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

It certainly is, but split how?
It would be fair to split it this way:
- a % is paid by Disney for the usage by WDW users who are not staying onsite and use the Skyliner to move between parks or to visit a resort for dining and shopping, depending on usage by park guests / onsite guests.
- the rest is split between the resorts based on occupancy (ie AoA is bigger than RIV so that resort should be allocated more expenses)

What I instead think it's happening is:
- the cost if split by three because there are three stations
- the cost for each station is then allocated to the corresponding resort (i.e. RIV pays 1/3 of the total Skyliner expenses). If a station serves multiple resorts, the expenses are split between the two resorts depending on occupancy (not relevant for RIV)

If you think it's unfair and impossible it's split this way... I've read here on the DISboards this is how the cost for the friendship boats is split:
- the total cost is split by three and the hotel at each stop pays 1/3 of the total costs
- for each stop, the cost is split between the hotel and the DVC part, based on occupancy
While still unfair, the three hotels on the friendship boats line are not too different in size. But RIV is so much smaller than AoA, Pop and CB, it would be extremely unfair to split the expenses in equal parts.
Before buying RIV I would pretend to know how the Skyliner expenses are allocated, but it doesn't seem something of interested to owners, as I don't think anyone asked yet.

So if I understand correctly, BCV would pay for 1/9 (1/3 of 1/3) of the friendship boat costs since YC, BC, & BCV use that dock. Right?

 

[zavandor]

So if I understand correctly, BCV would pay for 1/9 (1/3 of 1/3) of the friendship boat costs since YC, BC, & BCV use that dock. Right?

According to what I've read here, the whole YC+BC+BCV split 1/3 of the cost among them, based on occupancy. This is what has been reported, not sure if it's true.

 

[sethschroeder]

- a % is paid by Disney for the usage by WDW users who are not staying onsite and use the Skyliner to move between parks or to visit a resort for dining and shopping, depending on usage by park guests / onsite guests.

I don't think any system accounts for non resort guests though. So I doubt the skyliner would be different.

You could also say unlike the friendship boats things are not even and I suspect might be divided by.

RIV covers 100% of its station (and any extra cost on the Epcot/CBR line in comparison to HS/CBR line), AOA/Pop cover 100% of their station, and the HS/Epcot/CBR stations are devided by 4.

Not sure you would get a straight answer or not if asking. How much detail do they need to share with budgets and expenses?

 

[crvetter]

I don't think any system accounts for non resort guests though. So I doubt the skyliner would be different.

You could also say unlike the friendship boats things are not even and I suspect might be divided by.

RIV covers 100% of its station (and any extra cost on the Epcot/CBR line in comparison to HS/CBR line), AOA/Pop cover 100% of their station, and the HS/Epcot/CBR stations are devided by 4.

Not sure you would get a straight answer or not if asking. How much detail do they need to share with budgets and expenses?

Unfortunately transportation is a subcontracted line item much like electricity, external contractors. So Disney is under no obligation to share the information and the transportation division can chose to charge whatever they want to each resort or subentity of a resort for usage. There is no obligation either that it’s charged at cost and I suspect it isn’t an at cost line item but a there is a (small likely) profit built in (at all resorts) above and beyond maintenance, operation, and replacement costs.

The association can opt out of the transportation line items but to do so I believe there are other ramifications (basically other things are necessarily required to be lost).

 

[Sandisw]

Unfortunately transportation is a subcontracted line item much like electricity, external contractors. So Disney is under no obligation to share the information and the transportation division can chose to charge whatever they want to each resort or subentity of a resort for usage. There is no obligation either that it’s charged at cost and I suspect it isn’t an at cost line item but a there is a (small likely) profit built in (at all resorts) above and beyond maintenance, operation, and replacement costs.

The association can opt out of the transportation line items but to do so I believe there are other ramifications (basically other things are necessarily required to be lost).

So, really, however they have decided to assign the costs, isnt something that would be part of what would be shared with us,

Good information.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Unfortunately transportation is a subcontracted line item much like electricity, external contractors. So Disney is under no obligation to share the information and the transportation division can chose to charge whatever they want to each resort or subentity of a resort for usage. There is no obligation either that it’s charged at cost and I suspect it isn’t an at cost line item but a there is a (small likely) profit built in (at all resorts) above and beyond maintenance, operation, and replacement costs.

The association can opt out of the transportation line items but to do so I believe there are other ramifications (basically other things are necessarily required to be lost).

I had finally opened the Fall Disney Files and I think I saw a blurb on how Riviera is the only DVC resort paying for the Skyliner transportation? And the thought that produced was that I would certainly hope so. Just skimmed though so maybe there was a bit more to it.

 

[i<3riviera]

͏

 

[Sandisw]

about a year old thread, yes, but I stumbled on it recently and want to make sure I didn't miss something

does the hive mind know if this sale ever went through? if so, I can't find a record of the deed

in Oct there was a 50 point deed that went for 160 USD per point (Oct use year); is this maybe the same contract that was delayed on account of COVID-19? it was an 1 Apr 2020 closing originally so maybe that didn't happen ...

I don’t know if it went through and maybe once Covid hit and that trip got canceled, they decided not to sell or the buyer backed out.

Since you have a good handle on sales, I am betting it did not.