Rides That Could Do Better

[MS_Warrior]

Right, but when did that start being the case for HM specifically? It always was at DL, but from what I can tell they changed the process at WDW's HM likely around the time of the reopening. What I'm not sure of is why, since the 'extended queue' area was no less accessible than the 'regular' or FP queue.

We went to Disney in Nov 2019 and went through the regular queue. I even went into the stretching room. So, you are correct that this must be a changes since reopening.

 

[RoseGold]

We went June 2021 and they took the wheelchair up the back entrance (dark hallway) and transfered direct to the ride at Haunted Mansion. I can see how a big rental scooter might not fit, but this was the process for a permanently disabled person who needed to be transfered in a small power chair. They didn't let the wheelchair in the main queue.

 

[MS_Warrior]

We went June 2021 and they took the wheelchair up the back entrance (dark hallway) and transfered direct to the ride at Haunted Mansion. I can see how a big rental scooter might not fit, but this was the process for a permanently disabled person who needed to be transfered in a small power chair. They didn't let the wheelchair in the main queue.

I think @fabfemmeboy uses a small power chair, also.

 

[DisneyOma]

Regardless of whether they consider preshows as part of the attraction (which they clearly do, look at ROTR), the entire thing needs to be built with accessibility and logistics in mind. You can't simply build a new attraction that can only be accessed by stairs with no alternate entrances, and you shouldn't be able to build a new attraction that can accommodate mobility devices but only if there is literally no one else in line. I desperately wish I knew how to get into that job - the person who points out why what they're creating needs to be adjusted for accessibility. I would be everyone's least favourite person, but at least I would be able to get QS food in MK without ridiculous stantions in the way!

No, attractions do not have to be built with accessibility and logistics in mind if having certain accessibility alters the spirit of the attraction. Otherwise, there would be no rollercoasters, or any other attraction that requires any kind of movement from guests. Queues have to be accessible, but the attraction has different rules, hence no scooters in some preshows, etc. But I don't think FOP should be one of those types of attractions, especially since the movie plot started with a paralyzed character!

 

[fabfemmeboy]

No, attractions do not have to be built with accessibility and logistics in mind if having certain accessibility alters the spirit of the attraction. Otherwise, there would be no rollercoasters, or any other attraction that requires any kind of movement from guests. Queues have to be accessible, but the attraction has different rules, hence no scooters in some preshows, etc. But I don't think FOP should be one of those types of attractions, especially since the movie plot started with a paralyzed character!

But this is not the attraction. It's the queue. Obviously you can't fit a wheelchair onto the Ikran bike - I get that. No one has suggested it should be done that way. But the idea that the preshow (which is literally just a room or hall where you get theming immersion and maybe some instructions) is the same thing as the physical attraction where people are moving in all sorts of directions is just silly from the standpoint of accessibility. There is a valid reason I have to transfer to ride the Ikran...although there isn't a reason they couldn't have built in a stantion that a chair could hook into and ride with the 3D glasses to have a similar experience, just like they have a seated car on Tron for those who can't ride the bike. But there is not a valid reason to build a hallway that is too narrow to accommodate wheelchairs/scooters in 2015. That doesn't alter the "spirit of the attraction" any more than putting a ramp at a restaurant alters the "spirit of the architecture." It's not a justification there, and it absolutely should not be a justification here.

 

[ttintagel]

I can't say for sure, since I've only been on one trip to the World in 6 years and that was during Covid. I know last year they were sending anyone with a mobility device through the exit line, having us leave our devices at the exit, and walking in to merge with the rest of the guests after the stretching room (that wasn't operational) but before the loading area. It was frustrating in part because they wouldn't let anyone with a wheelchair wait in the regular queue; you had to get a return time and come back. I already had a return time for BTMRR (where we have to go through the exit because stairs) and had gone over to HM to do something while I waited, only to discover they wouldn't let me wait in the regular line even though it was accessible. So...at least as far back as last November, possibly as long as like 6 years! Very specific

Oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense with the COVID procedures.

 

[DisneyOma]

But this is not the attraction. It's the queue. Obviously you can't fit a wheelchair onto the Ikran bike - I get that. No one has suggested it should be done that way. But the idea that the preshow (which is literally just a room or hall where you get theming immersion and maybe some instructions) is the same thing as the physical attraction where people are moving in all sorts of directions is just silly from the standpoint of accessibility. There is a valid reason I have to transfer to ride the Ikran...although there isn't a reason they couldn't have built in a stantion that a chair could hook into and ride with the 3D glasses to have a similar experience, just like they have a seated car on Tron for those who can't ride the bike. But there is not a valid reason to build a hallway that is too narrow to accommodate wheelchairs/scooters in 2015. That doesn't alter the "spirit of the attraction" any more than putting a ramp at a restaurant alters the "spirit of the architecture." It's not a justification there, and it absolutely should not be a justification here.

I think they managed to do it because they made the preshow so immersive - the sensor screens, etc. I'm not saying it was a good thing to do, just that I see how they got around the ADA. ADA has some wiggle room written into it, and that gets taken advantage of.

Hooking a wheelchair onto the moving floor seems rife with problems to me - would you be willing to sign a waiver concerning any damage to your equipment of person? Or were you thinking just a stationary spot, which I agree they should have. The show wouldn't be as good, but it would be something for people who could not ride on the bikes.

I haven't seen the seated chair on Tron - do you have any links to it? That might be an option I could use when it opens at WDW. ETA:I found an image - it looks odd, how do they keep people safe, besides the lap bar? Hopefully the opening on the side closes?

 

[SueM in MN]

A couple comments:
Flight of Passage in Avatar:
We have gone to this with our daughter multiple times and she has stayed in her manual wheelchair in both preshow rooms and into the ride car room. We have always been assigned numbers on the ends of rows, which allowed us to ‘overflow’ into the area of the floor without numbers. I have also been in those rooms with other guests using wheelchairs, including power wheelchairs. My DD’s wheelchair is fairly narrow (25 inches wide) but wider ones look like they would fit. ECVs can’t turn very sharply, which is probably why they are not allowed in the preshow and boarding area. I don’t know why they would have turned down a power wheelchair to go all the way to loading; it’s possible it could have been a misunderstanding

Pirates of the Caribbean at WDW:
The ride loads in one building and unloads in another building, one floor down from where guests come in. CMs have to move mobility devices from the loading area into the unload area (using a small elevator). That’s the reason they prefer everyone to use an attraction wheelchair - there have been situations where the guest got to the unload area before their personal wheelchair.
After unloading, boats go into an area that’s just high enough for the boat itself to go thru in order to get back to the loading area. Because of this, they can’t have guests with mobility devices load and unload in the same location like some other attractions do.
The ‘alternate entrance’ requires a CM to bring the guest backstage near to the door used to bring mobility devices out of the load area. There may be a wait for a CM to be free; the advantage to the ride CMs is the CM can take the device right to the unload area after the guest gets off it.
Interesting fact: in the ‘way past’, people’s personal wheelchair were actually loaded onto the boat with them if the wheelchair was small/light enough and could be folded. The guests got into the boat and the CM basically ‘tossed’ the wheelchair into the back row. I’ve heard 3 reasons they stopped down that; CM back injuries getting wheelchairs on and off, wheelchairs getting damage during the ‘toss’, wheelchair falling off of the boat during the fall

Buzz Lightyear at WDW:
The alternate entrance is at the exit, which is a tight and congested area.
The ride exits into a gift shop into the area where guests getting off the ride congregate to look at their on ride photos. So, to get there, you would need to navigate ‘against the flow’ in the gift shop and photo viewing area. The actual exit is a pretty small area and has only a small area where wheelchairs or ECVs can park. We use the wheelchair car for our daughter and when getting out, CMs have often needed to move a mobility device so we can exit.
These screenshots from a YouTube video show how tight the area is. Blue arrows show where mobility devices are sometimes parked.x

 

[fabfemmeboy]

I think they managed to do it because they made the preshow so immersive - the sensor screens, etc. I'm not saying it was a good thing to do, just that I see how they got around the ADA. ADA has some wiggle room written into it, and that gets taken advantage of.
***
I haven't seen the seated chair on Tron - do you have any links to it? That might be an option I could use when it opens at WDW. ETA:I found an image - it looks odd, how do they keep people safe, besides the lap bar? Hopefully the opening on the side closes?

The thing is, the ADA just requires that hallways have a certain amount of space total, etc. The hallways are indeed that wide. However, because Disney is cramming more people into that space than one would a standard hallway, CMs appear to be trained to take mobility devices unless specifically told otherwise because in their mind, there isn't room for them. There is, in fact, room for a wheelchair - just not a ton of it if you're putting people on each link dot. So I suspect it's not an ADA build issue, it's a practice issue - like cramped old buildings in NY or SF that have elevators but try to say only delivery or maintenance people can use them and everyone else needs to use the stairs. The issue is with them designing it to be that narrow (not illegally-narrow but impractically-narrow) in 2015 when they were certainly aware of wheelchairs, ECVs, and their prevalence in the parks!

As for the Tron seats - the ride isn't actually as wild as it looks/feels from on the bikes. I would say probably between BTMRR and EE in terms of intensity but much smoother. There aren't a ton of hills, so it doesn't throw you around - and if both BTMRR and EE just use lap bars...