Rider Switch changing (Started June 16th)

[OSUZorba]

What are you talking about... Intent... You don't know their intent? You're trying to make this rule which clearly states standby line into some sort of interpretive thing. It's like asking if the intent behind a beer tax is to raise funds or discourage beer drinking. It doesn't matter. You can't say... "well, the INTENT is to discourage beer drinking... and I'm not buying this to drink, I'm buying it for barbequing therefore I don't have to pay the tax." No. The intent is irrelevant. Rider Switch allows a family to avoid waiting in a Standby Line twice because they have a kid that can't ride. Doesn't matter if CMs enforce the rule or even know it. You know the rule, and we know the rule. We should recommend people follow it correctly so that it stays viable for people who use it legitimately.

So now you are making up rules that you can't use RS with FP...

There is no published rule that says whether or not splitting FPs is allowed or not. Since it has been allowed for years, universally, is allowed by actual breathing people not an exploit of software, and there is a legitimate reason to allow it, I really don't see how you can claim that it isn't Disney intent to allow it.

I know that you hate the RS program though, so there really is no point in discussing this with you. Just dream about the day there are no strollers and ignore the fact the parks would go out of business in short order if Disney gave the finger to families.

 

[OSUZorba]

I’ve never seen any of the reputable guides/blogs (meaning the ones who don’t give questionable info and actually respect Disney rules) suggest that you should split FP’s or that the waiting party should not get one and should get something else and then switch. If you have, please share a link, I just haven’t seen it. The ones I read all stick to the way Disney has expressly described the program in writing. Not the ways you can skirt it.

https://wdwprepschool.com/how-to-child-swap-rider-switch-at-disney-world/

I highly recommend that you use FastPass+ for the first group. This means that you'd get FastPasses for just the number of people riding in the first group.

https://www.undercovertourist.com/blog/disney-world-rider-switch/

Combining FastPass+ with Rider Switch is a terrific save-time strategy in the parks. You'll start by making FastPass+ reservations for only the Party 1 riders. If you are a family of four with one little one, for example, and three of you want to ride Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, only two of you would need FastPass+ reservations for it.

https://www.disneybyage.com/use-disney-world-rider-swap-rider-switch/

Yes, it does. The first riding party can use FastPass to shorten their wait time. We have a guide to making FastPasses here.

https://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/rider-switch

If you are switching off on an attraction where you have made a FastPass+ selection, only the initial rider(s) needs a FastPass+ reservation. The second rider(s) can use the Rider Switch pass to enter the FastPass+ queue.

These are the first four hits on my search and are basically a whose who of reputable Disney websites.

 

[DizneyMommy]

https://wdwprepschool.com/how-to-child-swap-rider-switch-at-disney-world/


https://www.undercovertourist.com/blog/disney-world-rider-switch/


https://www.disneybyage.com/use-disney-world-rider-swap-rider-switch/


https://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/rider-switch


These are the first four hits on my search and basically a whose who of reputable Disney websites.

I don’t see anywhere any of those say for the wedding party to go get a different fast pass essentially doubling them up. They are just reporting that cast members have not asked to see a fast pass for the waiting party. Which is recent experience on most rides, however it has also been reported that on some rides it is being enforced now

 

[MrInfinity]

There is no published rule that says whether or not splitting FPs is allowed or not. I know that you hate the RS program though, so there really is no point in discussing this with you. Just dream about the day there are no strollers and ignore the fact the parks would go out of business in short order if Disney gave the finger to families.

I'm much in favor of RS and it being used legitimately. But honestly sounds like you're just trying to incite now and not really discussing. The rule is there on the Disney website. If you want to discuss it, cool, otherwise I'm not just going to rant with you.

These are the first four hits on my search and basically a whose who of reputable Disney websites.

You quoted 4 sites, none of which are the one that matters.

 

[OSUZorba]

I'm much in favor of RS and it being used legitimately. But honestly sounds like you're just trying to incite now and not really discussing. The rule is there on the Disney website. If you want to discuss it, cool, otherwise I'm not just going to rant with you.

You quoted 4 sites, none of which are the one that matters.

Again I was responding to the other poster that said no reputable sites mentioned splitting FPs, which is clearly false. The Disney website on rider switch is completely mute on FastPass https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guest-services/rider-switch/, therefore the rules on RS with FP must be inferred from experience with the employees they train on their rules.

Just because you don't like how the system is currently being managed by Disney, does not mean that it is illegitimate.

 

[danceintherain]

So, the Disney website currently says:
"At least one adult member of your party and the Guests who are not riding will be given a Ride Switch pass and asked to wait in a designated area (usually outside of the attraction). This group is “Party 2.”"

Is this how it's actually working? My trip isn't until the end of October, so all the "end of June" nonsense should be worked out by then.
The whole "wait in a designated area" thing is a concern. Part of the beauty of rider switch is that since most too short kids don't wait well, you can take them to do something else, instead of waiting. If we're just shunted into a holding area, then it's probably not worth it.

 

[OSUZorba]

I don’t see anywhere any of those say for the wedding party to go get a different fast pass essentially doubling them up. They are just reporting that cast members have not asked to see a fast pass for the waiting party. Which is recent experience on most rides, however it has also been reported that on some rides it is being enforced now

Actually they all say that. Here the quote from Touring Plans:

With some strategic planning, you can use this system to expand your FastPass+ ability by making simultaneous selections for the second adult and small child on a nearby attraction.

Regardless, you are moving the goalposts, you said no reputable site talked about splitting FPs or only Party 1 needing them, then asked me to provide links. I provided links to 3 very well known and respected websites and a fourth that focuses on families and is well known, all discussing how only party 1 needs a FP and they all go on to say how party 2 can get a different FP to a different attraction.

This isn't some software exploit being discussed on the corners of YouTube and buried in some thread (like the old SDFP trick), this is being specifically allowed by probably over a thousand ride hosts over the years and is reported on front and center on every reputable Disney guide site that discusses RS.

Again, I think it is fine to debate whether or not that should change, but I think it is unfair to accuse people of abuse, etc when Disney is very clearly and knowingly allowing the practice and even the might by the book websites recommend it.

 

[OSUZorba]

So, the Disney website currently says:
"At least one adult member of your party and the Guests who are not riding will be given a Ride Switch pass and asked to wait in a designated area (usually outside of the attraction). This group is “Party 2.”"

Is this how it's actually working? My trip isn't until the end of October, so all the "end of June" nonsense should be worked out by then.
The whole "wait in a designated area" thing is a concern. Part of the beauty of rider switch is that since most too short kids don't wait well, you can take them to do something else, instead of waiting. If we're just shunted into a holding area, then it's probably not worth it.

As @HopperFan has pointed at a few times in the thread, the Disney rules haven't been updated in a very long time (which is why what they really are must be inferred from how the CMs handle it). But there is no designated waiting area you can go anywhere you want but party 2 will have to wait through the FP line as opposed to going up the exit.

 

[HopperFan]

So, the Disney website currently says:
"At least one adult member of your party and the Guests who are not riding will be given a Ride Switch pass and asked to wait in a designated area (usually outside of the attraction). This group is “Party 2.”"

Is this how it's actually working? My trip isn't until the end of October, so all the "end of June" nonsense should be worked out by then.
The whole "wait in a designated area" thing is a concern. Part of the beauty of rider switch is that since most too short kids don't wait well, you can take them to do something else, instead of waiting. If we're just shunted into a holding area, then it's probably not worth it.

Sadly that explanation is literally almost 20 years old, before the original FastPass! I hear all the frustration and we should be .... they can update a hotel rate, menu prices and ticket increases in the flip of a switch but come to policy, procedure and other very important helpful planning info - they are asleep at the wheel.

What that meant .... twenty years ago was that if you were doing Splash Mountain, Party 1 went through the line and Party 2 was shown up the exit and waited on the exit side of the boats until their family rode, then switched. If you did Dinosaur, Party 1 went through the line while Party 2 literally stood/sat outside the exit door. When Party 1 finished they told a CM who walked them out and walked Party 2 in the exit. Space Mountain when Party 1 was entering the final queue to load, Party 2 was sent to exit room to wait for Party 1, then walked back to the load queue.

So yes back then there was a designated area to go and CMs involved to aid in your swap ..... now the designated area is the whole rest of the park. We choose to do a shorter wait ride nearby, grab a snack & sit, go to the bathroom .... then immediately do the swap.

NOTE: It also says this "If the person in Party 2 waited alone with the child, he or she may bring one other Guest back to ride the attraction with him or her. Please note that only 2 Guests are allowed per Rider Switch Pass." when the paper RS passes clearly state 3 total may return. An IT person can literally fix this in seconds on the website. I think they do all this on purpose so there is no black and white, just the fine print "subject to change."

 

[DizneyMommy]

Actually they all say that. Here the quote from Touring Plans:



Regardless, you are moving the goalposts, you said no reputable site talked about splitting FPs or only Party 1 needing them, then asked me to provide links. I provided links to 3 very well known and respected websites and a fourth that focuses on families and is well known, all discussing how only party 1 needs a FP and they all go on to say how party 2 can get a different FP to a different attraction.

This isn't some software exploit being discussed on the corners of YouTube and buried in some thread (like the old SDFP trick), this is being specifically allowed by probably over a thousand ride hosts over the years and is reported on front and center on every reputable Disney guide site that discusses RS.

Again, I think it is fine to debate whether or not that should change, but I think it is unfair to accuse people of abuse, etc when Disney is very clearly and knowingly allowing the practice and even the might by the book websites recommend it.

Well I clearly missed that in my research for our trip, as the first I heard of this idea was here. I will be sure to send an email with my feedback that this is not really the best advice anymore given the email responses from Disney and the CM’s starting to enforce it.

It boils down to this, yes officially Disney requires it. No it hasn’t been consistently enforced. Yes it can be enforced at any time and probably will with the new lands opening and new RS system. I would hate to tell a guest to do it your way and have them miss out on a ride because of it. Also I still think it’s wrong.

 

[DizneyMommy]

Sadly that explanation is literally almost 20 years old, before the original FastPass! I hear all the frustration and we should be .... they can update a hotel rate, menu prices and ticket increases in the flip of a switch but come to policy, procedure and other very important helpful planning info - they are asleep at the wheel.

What that meant .... twenty years ago was that if you were doing Splash Mountain, Party 1 went through the line and Party 2 was shown up the exit and waited on the exit side of the boats until their family rode, then switched. If you did Dinosaur, Party 1 went through the line while Party 2 literally stood/sat outside the exit door. When Party 1 finished they told a CM who walked them out and walked Party 2 in the exit. Space Mountain when Party 1 was entering the final queue to load, Party 2 was sent to exit room to wait for Party 1, then walked back to the load queue.

So yes back then there was a designated area to go and CMs involved to aid in your swap ..... now the designated area is the whole rest of the park. We choose to do a shorter wait ride nearby, grab a snack & sit, go to the bathroom .... then immediately do the swap.

NOTE: It also says this "If the person in Party 2 waited alone with the child, he or she may bring one other Guest back to ride the attraction with him or her. Please note that only 2 Guests are allowed per Rider Switch Pass." when the paper RS passes clearly state 3 total may return. An IT person can literally fix this in seconds on the website. I think they do all this on purpose so there is no black and white, just the fine print "subject to change."

Seriously, right?? How hard is it to post the accurate policy! Lol

 

[HopperFan]

Seriously, right?? How hard is it to post the accurate policy! Lol

But if it is clear black & white ... no more saying "The website is not up to date ... XXX is our policy." And since front line CMs have the final word ..... it may be on purpose.

 

[abinormal]

I’m not going to accuse anyone of abuse except those who were selling RS passes. The other stuff was all gray area and the fault for that lies with Disney. If it’s not prohibited, then it’s allowed, no?

It’s all moot anyway. I found RS very helpful as it was but the new changes seem reasonable to me. Going digital, one at a time, requiring FP for all, fine. Any one of those would eliminate the “fraud”.

The exception is the one hour limit. I see no reason for that in light of the other changes being made. That’s an unreasonable change. It requires back-to-back riding. If RS allowed immediate access it would make sense, but it only gives access to the FP line, which can be 30+ more minutes of waiting for the little ones. Even the end of the day would be better, and since the limit is one at a time there’s no reason not to allow that. That’s the part I hope is altered.

 

[DizneyMommy]

I’m not going to accuse anyone of abuse except those who were selling RS passes. The other stuff was all gray area and the fault for that lies with Disney. If it’s not prohibited, then it’s allowed, no?

It’s all moot anyway. I found RS very helpful as it was but the new changes seem reasonable to me. Going digital, one at a time, requiring FP for all, fine. Any one of those would eliminate the “fraud”.

The exception is the one hour limit. I see no reason for that in light of the other changes being made. That’s an unreasonable change. It requires back-to-back riding. If RS allowed immediate access it would make sense, but it only gives access to the FP line, which can be 30+ more minutes of waiting for the little ones. Even the end of the day would be better, and since the limit is one at a time there’s no reason not to allow that. That’s the part I hope is altered.

The Dad who asked for a RS for NRJ but did not even have a kid too short or too scared... and then bragged online about doing it. Those people are abusing it.

I’d agree everything else is grey and Disney should tighten up the controls. It will only help their line and crowd control!

 

[JimmyBean42]

I did report the seller on eBay who had the $400 and $300 listings of FP+ RS passes and got the listings taken down. It was easy since some of the passes were expired. Normally I wouldn't do that, but that one felt good since I may have saved a family from getting scammed on expired FOP, EE and 7DMT RS passes.

 

[OSUZorba]

Well I clearly missed that in my research for our trip, as the first I heard of this idea was here. I will be sure to send an email with my feedback that this is not really the best advice anymore given the email responses from Disney and the CM’s starting to enforce it.

It boils down to this, yes officially Disney requires it. No it hasn’t been consistently enforced. Yes it can be enforced at any time and probably will with the new lands opening and new RS system. I would hate to tell a guest to do it your way and have them miss out on a ride because of it. Also I still think it’s wrong.

The real issue is there is no official policy. You've got an email from a CM who may have never stepped foot on the park. I don't really trust someone in a call center on ride-op policy more than hundreds of CMs that have been specifically trained on ride-op policy and are continuously being checked.

 

[OSUZorba]

The Dad who asked for a RS for NRJ but did not even have a kid too short or too scared... and then bragged online about doing it. Those people are abusing it.

I’d agree everything else is grey and Disney should tighten up the controls. It will only help their line and crowd control!

Just for the record, I do 100% agree that was abuse. I also wonder if it was actually true, some people just like to troll and doesn't match other experiences I've read about.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Well, I think it speaks volumes that none of the (reputable) blogs/guides that I have read have ever encouraged doing what you are suggesting, waiting parent gets a different FP instead of the same one everyone else has. YouTube “stars” maybe but I stay away from YouTube, nothing good happens there. If this was so widely accepted by Disney why wouldn’t all of the blogs and guides be encouraging this?

Second, you are affecting other guests experience by what you are doing. Is it a huge impact? Probably not. But it is not the way it is supposed to work. When you don’t pull a FP for ride #1, but you do pull one for ride #2 and then get a RS for ride #1, you are affecting the speed of the FP line in ride 1. The system did not account for you when it allocated FP to that time slot. If you had gotten a FP, it is basically just converted to RS. This is why I like the digital system, they can get a much better handle on the line throughout the day.

Now say a few dozen people do that in one time slot, and you start to see an affect on the FP line. Yes, the other returning guests also add to that, but not everyone brings someone back and Disney has specifically in writing said you may do that. Nowhere did they say Waiting parent does not need a FP and please feel free to go get another one for the same time frame.

In addition to the sites a PP listed, here's two for DL that discuss RS and recommend having the waiting adult get a fastpass for a different ride.

https://disneylanddaily.com/a-fastpass-guide-for-disneyland-and-california-adventure/#Rider_Switch

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wdwi...ork-the-system-at-disneyland-with-a-baby/amp/

Nowhere has Disney said that the waiting parent needs a FP. See, this can be debated from both sides. You're right that not everyone brings someone back, but some people bring 2 people. Not everyone splits fastpasses for tiered rides or doesn't get a fastpass for the waiting party. I'm simply saying that with the +2 rule, you're already giving up to 2 people an extra ride, but yet people are complaining about situations where sometimes a single adult (who doesn't have anyone else to ride with them) gets to ride a ride once with RS and save their fastpass for something to ride on with their kid.

. And saying "nobody really knows their intent" is bogus. It's right there on their website. Rider Switch is to avoid having to wait thru a STANDBY line twice.

The website doesn't mention the standby line at all.

I’ve never seen any of the reputable guides/blogs (meaning the ones who don’t give questionable info and actually respect Disney rules) suggest that you should split FP’s or that the waiting party should not get one and should get something else and then switch. If you have, please share a link, I just haven’t seen it. The ones I read all stick to the way Disney has expressly described the program in writing. Not the ways you can skirt it.

See above.

What are you talking about... Intent... You don't know their intent? You're trying to make this rule which clearly states standby line into some sort of interpretive thing. It's like asking if the intent behind a beer tax is to raise funds or discourage beer drinking. It doesn't matter. You can't say... "well, the INTENT is to discourage beer drinking... and I'm not buying this to drink, I'm buying it for barbequing therefore I don't have to pay the tax." No. The intent is irrelevant. Rider Switch allows a family to avoid waiting in a Standby Line twice because they have a kid that can't ride. Doesn't matter if CMs enforce the rule or even know it. You know the rule, and we know the rule. We should recommend people follow it correctly so that it stays viable for people who use it legitimately.

There is no published rule concerning the waiting party needing a fastpass. There is absolutely nothing that states RS is to avoid people waiting in the "Standby" line again. That word is not used. If it was only for people in standby then they easily could have not allowed RS to those using FP long ago. They didn't. I disagree completely that "we know the rule" and that anyone who uses this is somehow doing something illegitimate. Some people are simply doing what is allowed in practice and not prohibited by any published rule.

It boils down to this, yes officially Disney requires it. No it hasn’t been consistently enforced. Yes it can be enforced at any time and probably will with the new lands opening and new RS system. I would hate to tell a guest to do it your way and have them miss out on a ride because of it. Also I still think it’s wrong.

Again, no where official does it state that officially Disney requires it, so to keep repeating that is incredibly disingenuous. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on whether it's right or wrong, but neither your opinion, mine, or anyone else's means that it's policy. There is no published policy concerning how RS is to be used with fastpass and without that, NO ONE can say what Disney expects, intends, etc. Literally, the only thing we can do is go off of whatever the CMs have us do. Whether that reflects some secret policy or not, who knows, but thats really all we have to go on.

 

[abinormal]

The Dad who asked for a RS for NRJ but did not even have a kid too short or too scared... and then bragged online about doing it. Those people are abusing it.

I’d agree everything else is grey and Disney should tighten up the controls. It will only help their line and crowd control!

If he lied to get it, then yes it is. Lying is unethical and falls outside that gray area. If he simply asked and was given one, that was the CM’s choice.

Again, it’s all moot anyway. Use, overuse, abuse, whichever, it’s going to be tempered by the new system.

 

[Clark W Griswold]

We have benefitted a lot from the current system especially when the crowds are heavy. I figured it was only a matter of time before they went electronic but they’ll still have paper passes available for those times when the system goes down. Hopefully they really think through all scenarios when they implement it. It would be nice to have all cast member following the same policy. When my youngest was little my wife would go feed him while I road with my oldest and got a rider swap. Having to all be there and wait makes that harder to deal with. It’s annoying but it’s probably what the future holds.