Revolution

[Coconut36]

The popular theory of the ahow is that an EMP fried everything with an IC, so her old computer would have no longer been functional and one would have had to be cobbled out of low-tech parts. this fits with the opening scene as he rushed to get the flash drive in the housing prior to lights out. The housing could have been made to shield the drive. Of course, with Abrams, the real answer is probably space aliens.

Hmmm..it seems "more" than an EMP (and if an EMP why is everything permanently down but clearly the drive can restore power?) but yes..with Abrams who knows

 

[sam_gordon]

Hmmm..it seems "more" than an EMP (and if an EMP why is everything permanently down but clearly the drive can restore power?) but yes..with Abrams who knows

I have to agree.

I did at first also think EMP, but there are too many things that would still be working... classic cars, anything purely mechanical, etc (right?).

 

[Colleen27]

I disagree. The difference between this situation and that experienced by Europe when Rome fell is that no one needs to actually invent anything. The knowledge is already here.

In fact, there are enough old-school diesel generators still in use ( and production in Asia) that a good chunk of the population would either still have or would soon have electricity and refrigeration. Give a person electricity, a library, and a shop full of machines and he can build most anything that he needs. Its true that the computer controlled mills and such wouldn't work, but all of the old school tools would survive an EMP wave, especially the ones that are still in the warehouse awaiting sale, since if they weren't plugged in, they wouldn't have suffered an energy spike when the grid overloaded.

The knowledge exists, but that doesn't mean the people who understand it have the means to act on it.

I'm also not buying the EMP theory for several reasons. First of all, that's a one-time event while this blackout seems to be ongoing. Second, a global EMP would be highly unlikely; as I understand it, a man-made EMP is a line-of-sight event and one that is solar in origin just doesn't fit the story thus far... If it was a one-time event that merely fried existing electronics there would be no need of a mysterious flash drive or any special knowledge to get the power back on, just some old-fashioned elbow grease and a temporary return to old technologies. This is science fiction, not the Discovery channel, and I think the ultimate explanation is going to be far more in keeping with the genre - that is, not so simple, well-known, and straight-forward.

 

[torinsmom]

I have to agree.

I did at first also think EMP, but there are too many things that would still be working... classic cars, anything purely mechanical, etc (right?).

We haven't seen much from right after the "event". Classic cars could have been working right after, but 15 years later, how would they get fuel without electricity? And maybe the militia is also hoarding or destroying vehicles that worked?

I think it bothered me more that the overgrowth isn't higher in the deserted cities. My grass has gotten higher in 2 weeks than in some of the scenes

 

[SAHDad]

I have to agree.

I did at first also think EMP, but there are too many things that would still be working... classic cars, anything purely mechanical, etc (right?).

Yep. And, unless it was a really strong EMP, shielded items would still work. For something to prevent even batteries from working puts it pretty well into the realm of magic.

 

[luvmy3]

The knowledge exists, but that doesn't mean the people who understand it have the means to act on it.

You would think that in 15 years they could have found a way, especially since you have multiple people with "power" already.

 

[sam_gordon]

We haven't seen much from right after the "event". Classic cars could have been working right after, but 15 years later, how would they get fuel without electricity? And maybe the militia is also hoarding or destroying vehicles that worked?

I think it bothered me more that the overgrowth isn't higher in the deserted cities. My grass has gotten higher in 2 weeks than in some of the scenes

Maybe they used chemicals to keep it down until the chemicals ran out? Or scythes to keep it "under control"?

 

[snykymom]

Anybody else think that the guy running up the stairs to attack the computer lady is the Google geek?

Just wondering who it might be.......

You're forgetting the shiny black jackboots - and the legs were too thin.

IIn fact, there are enough old-school diesel generators still in use ( and production in Asia) that a good chunk of the population would either still have or would soon have electricity and refrigeration. Give a person electricity, a library, and a shop full of machines and he can build most anything that he needs.

Yes, there may be diesel engines, but even those eventually need fuel. And perhaps they're leaning towards the point that there aren't enough engineers or math types to figure out how to remake some of the old machinery. Even the books assume that you have access to some sort of tools, which may not be readily available. How many of us still have, for example, the slide rule or even a hand-operated can opener? Or a hand-push lawn mower?

I think it bothered me more that the overgrowth isn't higher in the deserted cities. My grass has gotten higher in 2 weeks than in some of the scenes

We don't know what kind of environmental impact this event could have had on the overgrowth.

Another question, of course, is how did they know how to get to Chicago? Maps? And Miles says, Meet me in 2 weeks in this little town - where the hell is that? How'd they find it?

Finally, don't they say in the beginning that if you were in the city, you died? Then how come there were so many people in Chicago? In less than 15 years, in a now agrarian society, would you have flocked back there?

 

[SAHDad]

Yes, there may be diesel engines, but even those eventually need fuel. And perhaps they're leaning towards the point that there aren't enough engineers or math types to figure out how to remake some of the old machinery. Even the books assume that you have access to some sort of tools, which may not be readily available. How many of us still have, for example, the slide rule or even a hand-operated can opener?

I do. Not the slide rule (though I can do plenty of the math in my head or on paper - although I want a curta mechanical calculator, because they are cool), but I have plenty of non-powered tools and devices, including a can opener. (In fact, I don't have an electric can opener at all.)

And, it's not as though those things are hard to come by - there may not be as many of them to loot from the local mega-store, but they are there. Ditto for manual tools. And a library is unlikely to be looted and ransacked - no guns, booze or food - but you should be able to pull quite a few decent books out of the applied science section.

The part that keeps breaking the willing suspension of disbelief is the idea that loss of electricity = loss of all technology, even after 15 years. The Industrial Revolution was not created by harnessing electricity, but by steam. And, while a state of constant warfare will impede the reconstruction of society, after 15 years, there should be some hints that by have actually started looking in books and rebuilding the sort of machinery that was common in the mid 19th century.

 

[threeboysmom]

Anybody else think that the guy running up the stairs to attack the computer lady is the Google geek?

Just wondering who it might be.......

Didn't the woman call him "Randall" on the computer?

 

[Coconut36]

You would think that in 15 years they could have found a way, especially since you have multiple people with "power" already.

We haven't seen much from right after the "event". Classic cars could have been working right after, but 15 years later, how would they get fuel without electricity? And maybe the militia is also hoarding or destroying vehicles that worked?

I think it bothered me more that the overgrowth isn't higher in the deserted cities. My grass has gotten higher in 2 weeks than in some of the scenes

I was thinking the same thing in regards to things like classic cars..sure they might have worked after whatever this was happened..but fuel would run out fairly quickly as there is no means to get fuel to gas stations and such and based on what we saw with Monroe having those people drag a helicopter to his camp who knows what might have occurred post black out in regards to the militia confiscating items.

The knowledge exists, but that doesn't mean the people who understand it have the means to act on it.

I'm also not buying the EMP theory for several reasons. First of all, that's a one-time event while this blackout seems to be ongoing. Second, a global EMP would be highly unlikely; as I understand it, a man-made EMP is a line-of-sight event and one that is solar in origin just doesn't fit the story thus far... If it was a one-time event that merely fried existing electronics there would be no need of a mysterious flash drive or any special knowledge to get the power back on, just some old-fashioned elbow grease and a temporary return to old technologies. This is science fiction, not the Discovery channel, and I think the ultimate explanation is going to be far more in keeping with the genre - that is, not so simple, well-known, and straight-forward.

I agree on the bold..not only is it science fiction but tied to Abrams and we know the explanations are not going to be something logical and straightforward

You would think that in 15 years they could have found a way, especially since you have multiple people with "power" already

I assume you mean the drive/locket things? Clearly those that have them know what they can do and also chose for whatever reason not to use them to restore power. Ben had it all those years and you can tell lived without power..there is a reason (as yet unknown of course) that these people with the lockets/power are not running around restoring everything.

 

[torinsmom]

Didn't the woman call him "Randall" on the computer?

Yes, she did. She typed "Randall is here", I believe.

 

[sbell111]

Yes, there may be diesel engines, but even those eventually need fuel.

Once the diesel trucks and other large, modern diesel equipment were put out of commission, there should have been enough diesel fuel stored around the country at gas stations as well as storage facilities to run these small generators nearly forever. If it were to ever run out before someone ginned up a low tech petroleum processing plant, you could easily move to biodiesel. It's pretty simple to make , after all. Finally, the option is to run the diesel generators directly on vegetable oil. Either way, electrical power would not be an insurmountable challenge. Once reasonably intelligent people had electricity, they could use existing tools and knowledge to build their way out.

And perhaps they're leaning towards the point that there aren't enough engineers or math types to figure out how to remake some of the old machinery. Even the books assume that you have access to some sort of tools, which may not be readily available. How many of us still have, for example, the slide rule or even a hand-operated can opener? Or a hand-push lawn mower?

I have a hand operated can opener. I bet that most people have one rattling around in their kitchen ( or camping gear). Surprisingly, we also own a slide rule, although my wife would have to show me how to use it. We don't own an old school mower, but I know that they sell them locally. They sell can opener and slide rules, also. They also sell lathes, mills, saws, drill presses and all manner of tools.

Another question, of course, is how did they know how to get to Chicago? Maps? And Miles says, Meet me in 2 weeks in this little town - where the hell is that? How'd they find it?

Maps exist. They would be unlikely to be lost simply because of this event.

Finally, don't they say in the beginning that if you were in the city, you died? Then how come there were so many people in Chicago? In less than 15 years, in a now agrarian society, would you have flocked back there?

People would flock to the cities for the same reason that the cities sprung up n the first place. Chicago is about the most obvious city for people to flock to. Google 'Chicago portage' for more than you want to know on this subject.

 

[snykymom]

IAnd a library is unlikely to be looted and ransacked - no guns, booze or food - but you should be able to pull quite a few decent books out of the applied science section.

You're kidding, right? One of the first things that despots or dictators do is burn books and libraries. Or at least secure them for themselves. They don't want anyone else to have knowledge or, heaven forbid, independent thoughts.

 

[sbell111]

You're kidding, right? One of the first things that despots or dictators do is burn books and libraries. Or at least secure them for themselves. They don't want anyone else to have knowledge or, heaven forbid, independent thoughts.

Back to this television show, there is no way that the leaders that sprang up immediately after 'lights out' could secure every library, not to mention books in private hands.

 

[Coconut36]

Back to this television show, there is no way that the leaders that sprang up immediately after 'lights out' could secure every library, not to mention books in private hands.

So they could take guns but not books? People are not allowed to own or have guns and penalty of doing so is death in this current world..it's not so crazy that books were burned/banned/confiscated as well.

Every library and every house immediately? No..but while the population is struggling with survival it would be quite easy for them to secure and remove books as they felt necessary and then set decrees and laws to remove books or certain types of books from private homes (after having destroyed or removed them from public locations..or destroying libraries entirely).

 

[ILoveToRun]

I was thinking about the clothing thing too. But I think it's very possible that everyone has clothes that aren't crappy looking. When I think about my clothes, they usually last at least 3-4 years, some way less, others (more than the some) way more.

On top of that, I would think that is there would be a depopulation of the world. Let's face it, there's a whole bunch of people who wouldn't survive either because they couldn't handle it, or because they were killed in some conflict, or because there was simply a shortage on resources, or because healthcare had been reduced to something very basic or even non-existent, etc. But there could easily have been a 90% population drop, or more. So in 2012 we have enough clothing for 8 billion people globally and now you only need clothing for 800,000,000 people globally. Of course you'll have plenty of clothing for everyone. And this doesn't even include all the clothing that was in the stores.

 

[Colleen27]

And a library is unlikely to be looted and ransacked - no guns, booze or food - but you should be able to pull quite a few decent books out of the applied science section.

Looted for valuables, probably not. But we're talking about an urban area in a northern climate - many books, particularly those in large concentrations in libraries and bookstores, were probably looted for combustible material during the first winter as people tried to figure out how to stay warm without central heating and without any sufficiently abundant source of wood in the immediate vicinity.

I assume you mean the drive/locket things? Clearly those that have them know what they can do and also chose for whatever reason not to use them to restore power. Ben had it all those years and you can tell lived without power..there is a reason (as yet unknown of course) that these people with the lockets/power are not running around restoring everything.

Have you ever seen V For Vendetta? There's a scene in that movie that comes to mind for me when thinking about why those who have power haven't acted on it... The hero is talking to a police inspector about a long-standing conspiracy, and the inspector asks him why he didn't come forward sooner, what he was waiting for. His response - "For you. I needed you." Without someone in a position of authority who could be trusted to do the right thing with that knowledge, sharing it wouldn't have made a difference. Ben and the others are in the same situation with the power. If they came forward now, the technology ends up in Monroe's hands and to what end? Certainly not to restore a more advanced/less strenuous lifestyle for everyone. Having the technology isn't enough; they need a leader and an organization capable of effectively resisting or overthrowing Monroe before they can make a difference by coming forward.

 

[Coconut36]

Looted for valuables, probably not. But we're talking about an urban area in a northern climate - many books, particularly those in large concentrations in libraries and bookstores, were probably looted for combustible material during the first winter as people tried to figure out how to stay warm without central heating and without any sufficiently abundant source of wood in the immediate vicinity.



Have you ever seen V For Vendetta? There's a scene in that movie that comes to mind for me when thinking about why those who have power haven't acted on it... The hero is talking to a police inspector about a long-standing conspiracy, and the inspector asks him why he didn't come forward sooner, what he was waiting for. His response - "For you. I needed you." Without someone in a position of authority who could be trusted to do the right thing with that knowledge, sharing it wouldn't have made a difference. Ben and the others are in the same situation with the power. If they came forward now, the technology ends up in Monroe's hands and to what end? Certainly not to restore a more advanced/less strenuous lifestyle for everyone. Having the technology isn't enough; they need a leader and an organization capable of effectively resisting or overthrowing Monroe before they can make a difference by coming forward.

I haven't seen V for Vendetta but I totally agree with your point regarding why they haven't come forward.

 

[SAHDad]

You're kidding, right? One of the first things that despots or dictators do is burn books and libraries. Or at least secure them for themselves. They don't want anyone else to have knowledge or, heaven forbid, independent thoughts.

Yes, after a few years, the books may be gone - burned for fuel, burned because they are dangerous, etc. But, in the first few months after the blackout, no - destroying books on applied science is going to be a little low on the laundry list.

Heck - they're not in my top 10 list of things to do, in the event of some world-ending apocalypse. But, securing books with practical knowledge is up there - if civilization falls, I'm going to try my best to arrest that fall before it hits the dark ages, part II. Books are going to be a big part of that.