*REVISED* (Post #1) Anyone w/ emotionally disabled 4 year old child?

[Luckymomoftwo]

I understand that everyone has different experiences and responses. Let me first say that I love my children without reservation. I rejoice in all that they can do, and they continue to surprise me. However, for me, and for many parents like me, one day I had dreams and expectations, and the next, I had to accept the fact that I was not going to have a "normal" pregnancy, birth or bonding moments. That my life was not going to go exactly as I had so carefully planned and hoped. I think Welcome to Holland says it very well. The landscape of my future and the future of my family had inexorably altered. Although not necessary for everyone perhaps, letting go of my old dreams was an important step in accepting and appreciating my children and their experience without bitterness. I think its important to realize that grieving does not make one weaker, but stronger and more able to fully embrace what lies ahead. In Love Nicole

Nicole, very well said (or typed in this case ) Just like I said in my last post...God only gives us what we are capable of handling and I think your post re-iterates that. You've got such an optomistic attitude in how you've handled the fact that your life, pregancy, & child's life is not what you planned and hoped. And I think God knew you'd be able to embrace what He gave you.
Deb

 

[Luckymomoftwo]

Regarding the potty training, I believe there are a lot of regulations regarding preschools/day care centers, especially depending on your state. My older DD went to a private Montessori preschool and they HAD to be potty trained to attend. My younger DD goes to a special needs preschool. They have a ton of regulations, for example the changing/toileting area has no door, I suppose to prevent abuse. And of course everyone has to wear gloves and immediately sanitize the changing area.

My older DD was dx'd with PDD-NOS at age 3. She had a ton of sensory and emotional issues. She used to have 20 meltdowns a day in preschool, sometimes lasting 30 minutes. She's in 1st grade now and the first three months of school she was melting down several times a day. We're finally down to 1 or 2 times per week and they only last a minute or so. Thank goodness! She's very intelligent (scored in the 96th percentile) but what good is that if you can't function socially? She does see the school social worker 2 times a week and she sees a psychologist privately. We also see a developmental pediatrician every 3 or 4 months. The dev ped put her on Prozac which I think has made a world of difference.

Good luck, I hope your daughter gets the help she needs!

It sounds like your DD has come a LONG way! Congratulations! Good luck to you, as well...I hoe that her meltdowns stop completely. It's inspiring to know that psychologists DO help. It gets frustrating as a parent because we aren't trained to know how to control or help our children, and knowing that there are specialists who really can get into our kids' minds and help "fix" their problems is such a relief.

 

[SmallWorld71]

Throwing in my 2 cents:
1) ASD, ADHD, emotional disorders etc... are medical diagnosis requiring a Dr., a school psychologist can not make that diagnosis for you, only a Dr. can.
2) I absolutely agree that you need to talk to the pediatrician and see a specialist.
3) I also agree that you should have the school do a full eval. if they haven't already to check for other types of disabilities. (Although toilet training difficulty is common in children with ASD, it is also common in children with sensory disorders. Make sure and Occupational Therapist does an evaluation as well.) This is free and the school must comply. Check your states dept. of education website for specifics.
4) Children with disabilities can go to school not potty trained and usually have a self help goal on their IEP.
5) If your child is academically ready for kindergarten, I don't think that waiting will do any good. You will just add boredom to everything else. And if she does have a disability, it won't go away just because you wait a year. In fact, many studies have shown that children with disabilties do much better with same age peers (as long as they are getting the support they need.)
6) Don't blame yourself. You didn't do anything wrong.
7) Don't be afraid to fight for what your daughter needs. Check out the Dept. of Ed. websites and learn your rights as a parent.

Edited to add: I reread my post and I sound kind of preachy. That's the problem with computers, you can't see my sympathetic face. Keep us posted.

 

[Luckymomoftwo]

Throwing in my 2 cents:
1) ASD, ADHD, emotional disorders etc... are medical diagnosis requiring a Dr., a school psychologist can not make that diagnosis for you, only a Dr. can.
2) I absolutely agree that you need to talk to the pediatrician and see a specialist.
3) I also agree that you should have the school do a full eval. if they haven't already to check for other types of disabilities. (Although toilet training difficulty is common in children with ASD, it is also common in children with sensory disorders. Make sure and Occupational Therapist does an evaluation as well.) This is free and the school must comply. Check your states dept. of education website for specifics.
4) Children with disabilities can go to school not potty trained and usually have a self help goal on their IEP.
5) If your child is academically ready for kindergarten, I don't think that waiting will do any good. You will just add boredom to everything else. And if she does have a disability, it won't go away just because you wait a year. In fact, many studies have shown that children with disabilties do much better with same age peers (as long as they are getting the support they need.)
6) Don't blame yourself. You didn't do anything wrong.
7) Don't be afraid to fight for what your daughter needs. Check out the Dept. of Ed. websites and learn your rights as a parent.

Edited to add: I reread my post and I sound kind of preachy. That's the problem with computers, you can't see my sympathetic face. Keep us posted.

Thanks for all of the advice. I had to laugh at the Edited to add part, that's my bosses biggest pet peave...he HATES email exactly because of not being able to hear the tone of what's being said. The boards are a little easier with all of the smiley faces, but still, sometimes it is hard to get the correct "tone" to go with what you're typing.

 

[SmallWorld71]

Thanks for all of the advice. I had to laugh at the Edited to add part, that's my bosses biggest pet peave...he HATES email exactly because of not being able to hear the tone of what's being said. The boards are a little easier with all of the smiley faces, but still, sometimes it is hard to get the correct "tone" to go with what you're typing.

I jumped on your thread when I saw it because we have been having a lot of trouble lately with my daughter. She is an emotional wreck. I don't think her problems are the same as your daughters though. DH and I did some research and the thing that matches her the best is ODD (oppositional defiant disorder). The problems need to go on for at least 6 months for there to be a diagnosis (in other words it's not a phase) so we are monitoring her. I'm hoping it's just a phase, but her brothers weren't anything like this when they were her age so who knows. She's a very intense child to say the least so I completely sympathise with your struggles.

 

[barkley]

Oh, I've spent the past two weeks agonizing over posting a reply. I have a 5 year old with a serious emotional disability. He has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, severe anxiety, panic attacks, Sensory Integration Disorder, and some developmental delays.

Like the OP's daughter, he is not yet fully potty trained.

My hesitation with posting was for this reason, I did not want the OP to think that I am equating what happened to my son with her daughter in any way shape or form. My son was adopted from foster care and suffered some pretty severe abuse and neglect at an early age. Again, a disclaimer, I am in no way saying or even implying in the least that the OP's daughter has been in any way abused or neglected.

My reason for posting is this:
When we got "M" at 25 months of age, we were told he probably had autism. An example, he would stare at the ceiling fan in an unresponsive state. (Obviously there is more to autism than that.) He would scream, have meltdowns, had very little language, in short, he appeared to be in his own little world. In my son's case, he was having dissociative episodes, he couldn't cope and would "check out." Only after seeing a pediatric psychiatrist who specializes in children under 7 yo was the real mental health issue diagnosed.

Mental health issues are not commonly diagnosed in young children and it takes an expert to figure it out. (My son's school still swears he has ADHD and I have to explain, no, it's severe anxiety.) Many behaviors in children with mental health issues are also found in children with ASD. (Meltdowns, delays in toilet training, sensitivity to sounds, lights, etc.)

My point in posting is not to scare you but to encourage you to see a psychiatrist for very young children. (I am not implying that the OP is anything other than a great mother.) There are treatments available for children with mental health issues.

Best of luck to you.

I'd be interested in hearing from other parent's as to how day care centers can get away with requiring all children to be potty trained when for some children with disabilities, that isn't possible at 4 yo. My son goes to preschool through the school system so he can't be "required" to be potty trained.

if the daycare or preschool is privatly owned they can put any provision they want on attending-including that a child be potty-trained.

one of the chief factors that i see as contributing to lots of daycares and preschools having the potty training requirement comes down to dollars and cents-in california at least, when a child hits the 'magic' age of 3 they move from a teacher-student ratio of 1/6 to 1/12. changing children or working with them on learning potty training can be very time consuming so with a larger class size for an individual provider/teacher it can be prohibative to have non potty trained children. the daycares/preschools (again in california) don't want to have to increase their staffing levels in the age 3 and up groups esp. when in many cases the tuition for that age group is considerably less than for those kids under 3 (it is'nt unusual for tuition to drop 25-50% when a child transitions from an infant/toddler center into the preschool arena within the same school).

you're fortunate to live in a state that offers a public school preschool program-not all do, and the ones that do may not offer them in all school districts. in many states there are also strict income and 'risk factor' criteria for a child to admitted into these programs-so if the household's income does'nt fall within certain 'impoverished' federal guidelines AND the child is not deemed at risk for neglect, abuse or exploitation they can't even get on a waiting list. a special needs child whose family is far from wealthy but makes what the feds say is adequate income, whose family ensures their care and protects them can be totaly ineligible for anything the public schools offer pre kindergarten (and if that state does'nt do k-pre 1st grade)

 

[mazz1]

You've gotten some great advice, and since I agree with it, I won't completely repeat it. But I'd like to add just a little.

1. Don't trust every Dr. you talk to. We have had many many many diagnoses, and often they will contradict each other. There's no clear and simple test, like a blood test or x-ray that can definitively say anything, and especially if a child isn't severly affected, diagnosis is often a matter of interpretation and what they happen to see in the time they're with your child. If your gut tells you that something is missing or not right, TRUST IT. There is no better advocate for your child than you, no one who loves her more, or knows her more. Some Doctors understand how important and powerful that is, but a lot don't.

2. Allow yourself some time to be sad. To grieve what your child may not do, or have, and dreams that may not come true. Give yourself some time to recover from the shock of what has been said. Understand that just because someone uses the term "emotional disability" doesn't mean that there isn't a biological and often neurological basis. It doesn't mean that you or your child did anything wrong. It's just the way she is. The unique, special, fantastic, non average way she is. She can do more than you can imagine right now. She has a plan for her life, just like we all do. She is who she was created to be. And you were destined to be her mom. And that means that you are going to have what you need to raise her, even when you think you don't. This is just part of your journey, not the end. You're going to make it. Nicole

wow this could have been me talking we think so alike Nicole you could easily be my US twin

i agree completely with everything you have said and couldn't have put it any better

 

[mazz1]

can i just add, at 4yrs when my daughter was diagnosed i was a wreck and i did grieve but wasn't even aware of it

i distinctly remember a very scary meeting with 15 professionals and us where all cards where laid on the table and it was "she will never be able to do this" and "she will never be able to do that" and " jo will need care for life" and so on

my daughter is now 14yrs, she is intelligent, kind, funny and beautiful on the outside and inside, yes she is emotionally younger by approx 4 yrs but when i compare her to my nieces i think she is the greatest, she doesn't have a edge like they do and she isn't nasty, unkind or manipulative which my neices seems to strive to be

it's like they are polluted and my Jo is pure and yes i have times when i wish she wasn't autistic i'd be a liar if i said there wasn't days when i wished for it to disappear but i also see how lucky i am too, she is physically healthy and happy and i couldn't ask for more

 

[ireland_nicole]

Mazz;
Aw, thanks; you are so sweet OT:Where are you, exactly? We just moved to Austin TX from Co. Cork 2 years ago. (I am American born to Irish parents and my husband is a Dub.)

Your daughter sounds wonderful. I'm so glad that despite the work, you are able to appreciate and enjoy her for who she is
Nicole

 

[mazz1]

Mazz;
Aw, thanks; you are so sweet OT:Where are you, exactly? We just moved to Austin TX from Co. Cork 2 years ago. (I am American born to Irish parents and my husband is a Dub.)

Your daughter sounds wonderful. I'm so glad that despite the work, you are able to appreciate and enjoy her for who she is
Nicole

i am in the north east of england right on the seaside Nicole and i have two ASD children both very delightful & different, Jo is now almost 15 and James is almost 12, they are hard work but show me a teen and pre teen who isn't

we love the beach even in the freezing weather and spend a lot of time on it, it tires them out

we have a very irish surname (my husbands family originates from co kerry in the south)

 

[bookwormde]

You have gotten some great advice from the other posters. I have a few thoughts to add.

If you can question your brother to see if he processes information by the use of visual images. Also does he have the ability to focus on areas of interest for exceptional amounts of time. These would both be indications that he is not "classical" ADD. These are 2 of the traits of Aspergers and would be important in the "family history" portion of an evaluation.

When you pick out a clinician to do the evaluation make sure that they are highly experienced in autism/aspergers i.e. has diagnosed at least 50 autism cases and at least 25 aspergers cases. Our first attempt at a diagnosis for my son was at a major children's hospital where he was misdiagnosed with adhd even though he clearly did not meet the dsm-iv standard. We finally had to go to a neurologist who was familiar with aspergers for a proper diagnosis.

If your daughter ends up with a diagnosis of aspergers you have many great things to look forward to (along with some challenges) First it is highly unlikely that she is emotionally disabled. what she has is lack of innate social skills and social skills processing hard wired into her brain as neurotypicals have. This means that she will have the extra curriculum and intellectual processing effort that is required to do this intellectually. She may also have some sensory sensitivity issues and need standard academic curriculum provided in a move visual format (thank goodness for the computer age). That is a small price to pay for the great benefits that go along with being an aspie.
She will be a person with no innate discriminatory thinking, she will have a heightened sense of social justice. She will be able to reason in a visual way which is much more efficient and robust than any neurotypical. She is 100 to 1000 times more likely to make a major positive impact on the future of society than neurotypicals. That is not to say that it will always be easy finding a place to fit into but that is getting better with time. And yes she will get married and you will have grandchildren (but probably not until she is in her 30's). Grieve a little celebrate a lot.

If you have not read much on aspergers I would recommend
Tony Atwood's The complete guide to Aspergers syndrome
(just remember that only portions will apply to your child and many of the difficulties described only exist in the absence of a good social skills program (anxiety induced)).

also If you are going to keep her with her intellectual piers (this is what we did) some day when you are feeling strong read perfect targets so you can be sure she is properly protected at school .

I think both of these are available though Amazon

bookworm

So you know where I am "coming from" I am a 50yo sub clinical aspie dd from a long line of aspies. As I state to new people which I meet at support groups, I would have been very disappointed if at least one of my children had not been and aspie. I was fortunate to have a 8yo ds who is clinical. I also have a 4yo ds who is more to the neurotypical side of the world and a neurotypical dw.

 

[lucigo]

3/15/08 - REVISED - I spoke to my daughter's teacher yesterday. She said that she is doing very well and her behavior has been MUCH better. And I had THE MOST EXCITING NEWS to share with her teacher. My daughter is FINALLY potty trained! She's been in "big girl panties" for about three weeks now and has gone an entire week with absolutely no accidents. In my opinion, WE ARE POTTY TRAINED!

Thats great,congrats!!!

 

[mazz1]

that's great to hear i remember how proud and relieved i was when this milestone was finally reached

well done to your little girl

 

[SmallWorld71]

Yeah on the potty training.! One less thing to worry about.