Restaurant Withholding Tips; Is it legal?

[floridaminnie]

That is for fast food, my point, is for fast food that is a good wage, they get good people, if you pay a good wage, say $30 an hour for a server, you are going to get good people.

I also don't understand that argument, I can see paying about 15% (or the average tip in your area, I am basing it off of what is done here) more (as some people will make less and some more than a 15% tip, but should average out to the 15% average), I can not see 4 times as much, doesn't hold water, sorry.

$30 an hour to serve food? I get paid just a little bit more then that and I'm a teacher. I have a college degree with 6 years of experience.

 

[mpls_mm]

So wait, let me get this, all places would just pay employees more to ensure a better level of service and you would no longer tip. And that additional money would come from where? I assume you mean the place would have more diners and become more profitable, but with more business they would need more servers and more money. Or maybe the restaurants would just absorb the extra wages? There is no way around it, food would have to go up. Your check would be more. If I do the math, lets take a place in Florida where the servers make 2.13 an hour, to get them above the minimum wage and to a decent wage like $10 an hour, that would take an additional $7.87 per hour per server. If the hours are 11-10 plus an hour of opening and closing work, there are 13 hours of server time per day needed, 91 hours per week. Of course we need more than one server and a server can't work more than 8 hours a day or 5 days a week. We need a minimum of 3 servers all the time and sometimes as many as 10, but to be fair, we will figure 475 of server hours per week. That equals roughly $3738.25 per week or 15k per month. That is before benefits, social security etc. To attract quality employees you would also need vacation and insurance, you would have to provide uniforms, most tipped employees buy their own. I think 20k per month is fair to account for that, so your restaurant needs to make an additional 180k per year so that you don't need to tip any longer. For a chain like Chilis that would mean millions per year of lost profit.The other issue is that many managers and corporate executives get paid a percentage of profits on that store. Now we took away a chunk of their profits so we need to give them additional salary. That goes for busboys and bartenders and expediters who get a chunk of tips, now we have to pay them a little more too. They were only getting $7 or $8 and now need to make as much as our servers. The question is how much will that cheeseburger cost you afterwards? There are other reasons it wouldn't work, like upselling and liquor sales. A tipped server has incentive to upsell, an hourly employee does not. Sales would go down considerably overall.

 

[cmwade77]

$30 an hour to serve food? I get paid just a little bit more then that and I'm a teacher. I have a college degree with 6 years of experience.

$30 is the mid-range for servers, sad isn't it? You can see why I think tips as they stand now aren't quite right. Teachers should easily make 3 times what a server does, of course I think the only professions that should get paid more than teachers are:
Cops
Doctors
Firefighters
Paramedics
Rocket Scientists
Nuclear Engineers
and other professions that may affect people's personal safety.

 

[cmwade77]

So wait, let me get this, all places would just pay employees more to ensure a better level of service and you would no longer tip. And that additional money would come from where? I assume you mean the place would have more diners and become more profitable, but with more business they would need more servers and more money. Or maybe the restaurants would just absorb the extra wages? There is no way around it, food would have to go up. Your check would be more. If I do the math, lets take a place in Florida where the servers make 2.13 an hour, to get them above the minimum wage and to a decent wage like $10 an hour, that would take an additional $7.87 per hour per server. If the hours are 11-10 plus an hour of opening and closing work, there are 13 hours of server time per day needed, 91 hours per week. Of course we need more than one server and a server can't work more than 8 hours a day or 5 days a week. We need a minimum of 3 servers all the time and sometimes as many as 10, but to be fair, we will figure 475 of server hours per week. That equals roughly $3738.25 per week or 15k per month. That is before benefits, social security etc. To attract quality employees you would also need vacation and insurance, you would have to provide uniforms, most tipped employees buy their own. I think 20k per month is fair to account for that, so your restaurant needs to make an additional 180k per year so that you don't need to tip any longer. For a chain like Chilis that would mean millions per year of lost profit.The other issue is that many managers and corporate executives get paid a percentage of profits on that store. Now we took away a chunk of their profits so we need to give them additional salary. That goes for busboys and bartenders and expediters who get a chunk of tips, now we have to pay them a little more too. They were only getting $7 or $8 and now need to make as much as our servers. The question is how much will that cheeseburger cost you afterwards? There are other reasons it wouldn't work, like upselling and liquor sales. A tipped server has incentive to upsell, an hourly employee does not. Sales would go down considerably overall.

As I stated, a simple 15% price increase (or whatever the average tip in your area is) would pay the tip, basically it would get included into the cost of the meal, this is not a hard concept to grasp, I don't mean that rudely.

And don't get me started on the executives, they take way too much as it is, but really, sales would increase under this system, not decrease, you may have a slightly higher cost, but to know that is all that I am paying, would mean a huge relief to me as a person choosing where I wanted to eat, I like to be served, but do not like feeling obliged to pay a tip, because the server doesn't make enough money, that is what you are saying when leaving a tip you know, I am sorry your boss doesn't pay you what you are worth, here's some to make up the difference. It is why in some countries it is considered rude to leave a tip.

 

[mpls_mm]

So wait, let me get this, all places would just pay employees more to ensure a better level of service and you would no longer tip. And that additional money would come from where? I assume you mean the place would have more diners and become more profitable, but with more business they would need more servers and more money. Or maybe the restaurants would just absorb the extra wages? There is no way around it, food would have to go up. Your check would be more. If I do the math, lets take a place in Florida where the servers make 2.13 an hour, to get them above the minimum wage and to a decent wage like $10 an hour, that would take an additional $7.87 per hour per server. If the hours are 11-10 plus an hour of opening and closing work, there are 13 hours of server time per day needed, 91 hours per week. Of course we need more than one server and a server can't work more than 8 hours a day or 5 days a week. We need a minimum of 3 servers all the time and sometimes as many as 10, but to be fair, we will figure 475 of server hours per week. That equals roughly $3738.25 per week or 15k per month. That is before benefits, social security etc. To attract quality employees you would also need vacation and insurance, you would have to provide uniforms, most tipped employees buy their own. I think 20k per month is fair to account for that, so your restaurant needs to make an additional 180k per year so that you don't need to tip any longer. For a chain like Chilis that would mean millions per year of lost profit.The other issue is that many managers and corporate executives get paid a percentage of profits on that store. Now we took away a chunk of their profits so we need to give them additional salary. That goes for busboys and bartenders and expediters who get a chunk of tips, now we have to pay them a little more too. They were only getting $7 or $8 and now need to make as much as our servers. The question is how much will that cheeseburger cost you afterwards? There are other reasons it wouldn't work, like upselling and liquor sales. A tipped server has incentive to upsell, an hourly employee does not. Sales would go down considerably overall.

$30 an hour? Even better, triple my estimates. It wouldn't work, period. Unless you are in the Phillipines or Mexico where people are grateful for your cast off coins. If thats the standard of living you want, you should move there, except of course, you also want to make a living wage,

 

[Goobergal99]

$30 is the mid-range for servers, sad isn't it? You can see why I think tips as they stand now aren't quite right. Teachers should easily make 3 times what a server does, of course I think the only professions that should get paid more than teachers are:
Cops
Doctors
Firefighters
Paramedics
Rocket Scientists
Nuclear Engineers
and other professions that may affect people's personal safety.

It is a hard job though, my first nursing job was $30 an hour... and yea I worked hard (still do, although the pay is a bit better now) however, even if it was a slow night and my pt's were not terribly sick or busy I still made my $30.... servers don't have that kind of security....

I am not saying that ppl with a college degree shouldn't be paid well, however most servers do not have the great med benefits/ employee benefits that I have working for a large healthcare system, they are not getting the kind of pensions that a teacher/cop gets when they retire (notice I didn't say nurse, since our pensions suck )

But it really is all relative

 

[cmwade77]

$30 an hour? Even better, triple my estimates. It wouldn't work, period. Unless you are in the Phillipines or Mexico where people are grateful for your cast off coins. If thats the standard of living you want, you should move there, except of course, you also want to make a living wage,

I fail to see why it wouldn't. $30 an hour is more than enough, ANYWHERE in the country, if a server i making more than that, then I would be absolutely shocked and to be honest would think that maybe we need to reevaluate what percentage of a tip is left.

Honestly, from what I gather here, $30 per hour is what the average server make with tips, let's look at this:
$8.25 per hour base wage (assuming California Minimum Wage after Jan. 1st.
Let's say each table has an average bill of $30, they do 6 tables in a hour, that is $27 in tips
That totals $35.25 an hour, that is way more than a server should ever get, the should be about 1/2 of what a teacher makes, based on the value of what they do.

So actually with a $30 per hour base wage, you would only need to increase prices by about 10%. Sorry, four times as much does not hold up.

 

[Goobergal99]

I fail to see why it wouldn't. $30 an hour is more than enough, ANYWHERE in the country, if a server i making more than that, then I would be absolutely shocked and to be honest would think that maybe we need to reevaluate what percentage of a tip is left.

Honestly, from what I gather here, $30 per hour is what the average server make with tips, let's look at this:
$8.25 per hour base wage (assuming California Minimum Wage after Jan. 1st.
Let's say each table has an average bill of $30, they do 6 tables in a hour, that is $27 in tips
That totals $35.25 an hour, that is way more than a server should ever get, the should be about 1/2 of what a teacher makes, based on the value of what they do.

So actually with a $30 per hour base wage, you would only need to increase prices by about 10%. Sorry, four times as much does not hold up.

For the record, maybe $30/hr is alot in hicksville missouri but here in philly it is ok to maintain a comfortable lifestyle... I was certainly not driving a mercedes and even $10 more an hour I still aint

Oh and as far as value goes, I have had some servers that were much better at their jobs then some teachers I have had.... or that DD has had for that matter..

When I am hungry, there is no more valuable job then bringing me my chicken parm!!

 

[Free4Life11]

Are you serious...servers make on average $30 an hour?

 

[Goobergal99]

Are you serious...servers make on average $30 an hour?

again why is this considered alot of money

 

[barkley]

I fail to see why it wouldn't. $30 an hour is more than enough, ANYWHERE in the country, if a server i making more than that, then I would be absolutely shocked and to be honest would think that maybe we need to reevaluate what percentage of a tip is left.

Honestly, from what I gather here, $30 per hour is what the average server make with tips, let's look at this:
$8.25 per hour base wage (assuming California Minimum Wage after Jan. 1st.
Let's say each table has an average bill of $30, they do 6 tables in a hour, that is $27 in tips
That totals $35.25 an hour, that is way more than a server should ever get, the should be about 1/2 of what a teacher makes, based on the value of what they do.

So actually with a $30 per hour base wage, you would only need to increase prices by about 10%. Sorry, four times as much does not hold up.

in san francisco they have a law requiring employers to pay all employees a minimum wage of $9.36 per hour (including tipped staff). so in some areas the average hourly wage earned can be even higher.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

For the record, maybe $30/hr is alot in hicksville missouri but here in philly it is ok to maintain a comfortable lifestyle... I was certainly not driving a mercedes and even $10 more an hour I still aint

Oh and as far as value goes, I have had some servers that were much better at their jobs then some teachers I have had.... or that DD has had for that matter..

When I am hungry, there is no more valuable job then bringing me my chicken parm!!

Hey! I resent that! We're not all hicks, just some.

Are you serious...servers make on average $30 an hour?

I never did. I served at Steak n Shake, Dennys, and a local italian place. The last place I worked at for part of this summer, and it was by far the nicest restaurant. I came home most nights after a four hour shift with a little over 20 in my pocket, and I often made more than my coworkers. When I get my paycheck, I'm barely breaking minimum wage.

I think a lot of it depends on where you are. The only thing that keeps this town alive is the university, so the summers are dead. That also means we have lot of college students eating at our restaurant, and they very rarely tip 10% or more. Maybe if you work in a nice restaurant you get closer to 30. You have to also realize that most servers do not work 8 hour shifts like the rest of the world. The restaurant cuts your from the floor as soon as they can and tries to get you out of there so they don't have to pay you. I have worked shifts as short as two hours becuse the restaurant sent me home.

 

[Suzie Zoo]

I can certainly see making the effort to tip in cash, however, if some will not accept tips on a credit card, that attitude may easily inspire many people not to leave one, including myself.

You better believe it. I almost never carry cash and I refuse to be forced to do so.

 

[Suzie Zoo]

again why is this considered alot of money

I have a college degree and I don't make anywhere near that!

 

[Nancyg56]

I can name at least 8 restaurants in the Orlando area that have been audited! Three at Disney alone!

Years ago we had one in our area audited and it was enough to make the one I worked for insist we claim ours.

 

[Pumbaa_]

Large percentage of servers work part time. Have no benefits, no 401k, no insurance, no paid time off, no sick time and no retirement plan. IF they have a good night, they make good money.

In these times, what is the first thing most people cut? Dining out.

I have and will continue to tip a server the going rate and not anayze how much they are making per hour. Rather, I will enjoy my dining experience and not give it a thought

 

[Stella3]

For the record, maybe $30/hr is alot in hicksville missouri but here in philly it is ok to maintain a comfortable lifestyle... I was certainly not driving a mercedes and even $10 more an hour I still aint

Oh and as far as value goes, I have had some servers that were much better at their jobs then some teachers I have had.... or that DD has had for that matter..

When I am hungry, there is no more valuable job then bringing me my chicken parm!!

Well, aren't you lovely.... If 30/hr isn't cutting it, take your sorry butt back to college and make a trade CUTTING it!!!

 

[Nancyg56]

Large percentage of servers work part time. Have no benefits, no 401k, no insurance, no paid time off, no sick time and no retirement plan. IF they have a good night, they make good money.

In these times, what is the first thing most people cut? Dining out.

I have and will continue to tip a server the going rate and not anayze how much they are making per hour. Rather, I will enjoy my dining experience and not give it a thought

 

[Free4Life11]

again why is this considered alot of money

Because that is a lot of money for a single person to make, especially considering it doesn't require a college degree! Regardless, I really have a hard time believing most servers are making that, maybe at nice, high-end places, but Chilis, Applebees, really?

 

[paintnolish]

I serve at a higher end place and sometimes I do make decent money sometimes. I make the server minimum and last night brought home a little over $100 in tips for working, but that was a Sat. night. I have also brought home $10 for a lunch shift. It is very hit or miss, not money you can count on. Sat. night is great, but the place is still open and staffed the rest of the week. You certainly couldn't support a family on it. I'll keep going to school.